Dissatisfied with Ray Barton

[george a nilsen]

Dissatisfied with Ray Barton

To start this out I always thought Ray Barton was THE MAN when it came to buliding Hemi's and was a good business man up until now.

I am building a 572 Hemi so I ordered a 572 rotating mass thru Ray Barton. Callies Crank, Oliver Race Rods, JE Pistons and Bullet Cam.

I received the parts and my engine bulder who has been bulding engines for the past 40 years tells me he needs the key for the crank to install the gear drive and harmonic balancer. The crank on the bill says 4340 non-twist STD Chrysler. The box the crank came in said Callies, so I called up Keith at Ray Barton and said he does not have any in stock. I called up Callies and had it shipped the Next Day Service to me for $27.00. I get the key and bring it to the bulider and it does not fit. The next day I called Callies with an attitude and he asks for the crank number. I give it to him and he said its not even his crank and it turned out to be a Premium Scat Crank. OK - then why isn't it in a Scat Box? Ray Barton blows me off for the $27.00 I paid to get it here the next day.

Next, the builder file fits all the rings to specs,pistons, pins and rods are all washed down and puts them all together. Now he is going to install the oil rings. The oil ring measures .188 and the spacer measures .030 which totals .218. The groove was cut .188 - This doesn't work. These are custom 11.5 to 1 JE Pistons. I called Ray Barton about the problem, they try to get through to JE Pistons and finally I call JE Piston and talk to Ed. He tells me sometimes they have this problem. He says to have them red flagged Next Day shipped throught Ray Barton since he has an account with them. UPS pcks them up next day ( this is on a Thursday and JE does not receive them until the following Thursday and Ed from JE Pistons does not find them until the following Monday, and then I received them on Wednesday. This was Next Day Service from them? Ray Barton wanted me to pay the next day shipping and i said no way this is your problem.

I then talked to Ray Barton abut the labor cost which was 4 hours X $60.00 = $240.00 and he blows me off. He tells me this is part of the engine builder problem. I have to pay the engine builder this $240.00 for this mistake.

Ok - before we sent the pistons back we want to dail in the Cam and check clearances. Installed #1 piston, set-up the Milodon Gear Drive and degreed the Bulliet Cam - which also came from Ray Barton with the rotating mass. With Cam degreed we bolted on the Stage V Head without the .40 Cometic Steel Shims to check the Piston to head clearance. This was fine.. Next we are gong to check the piston to valve clearance. We bolted on the rockers, installed the lifters and adjustable Comp Push Rods ( bought them for measurement to order Push Rods) OK - so now we check for piston to value clearance. The intake valve, perfect - next we checked the exhaust value. BINGO!!! it hits the piston at TDC. Exhaust value at TDC was at High Lobe. The engine builder and I were looking at each other and are saying you got to be kidding me.

RAY BARTON SENT A 440 CAM FOR A 572 HEMI!!!!

I again called Ray and he blew me off again- so there is another 4 Hours x $60.00 at $240.00. He did sent me the HEMI Cam the next day. Next... we look over the rod bearings and find a distorted, corroded bearing. Sent it back and was told all I had to do is Sand-Off the bearing. It says not to take off the coating. I was not about to do this with this NEW engine and did receive a new bearing.
Before we sent back the JE pistons we weighed them to see the differance when we got them back. there was a 7 gram differance, when we got them back they were within 1 gram. the funny thing about this is i paid Ray Barton $225 for a balance job on the rotating mass. so i guess JE pistons did the balance on there pistons which Ray Barton never checked and i paid them $250 for something they never did!
So to sum this up I sent $5400.00 with Ray Barton Racing Engines and I am out $480.00 in LABOR CHARGES and lost time in building this engine. I WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND RAY BARTON RACING ENGINES TO ANYONE.

[dans76sport]

sorry about it all. Ray is one of the best Hemi dudes in the country. We all make mistakes.

[pishta]

I got to side with the CUSTOMER here. Everyone makes mistakes, but it takes a business man to make good on his mistakes,after all it is HIS business and if he want to remain successful, he has to treat the customer as what he is, the man that is paying his bills. To blow someone off as stated is BS. Refunding someone elses labor is always a touchy situation that needs to be handled in a responsible way, either credit him or make ammends in other areas. I work in a service industry and to make a customer feel he has been disserviced is asking for that person to tell 10 other people his story, or in this case, LOTS of VERY niche market customers. Ray, you blew this one, I would backpedal very quickly on this one and make amends pronto. Swallowing some of these costs is not going to break your bank.

[george a nilsen]

Originally Posted by pishta

I got to side with the CUSTOMER here. Everyone makes mistakes, but it takes a business man to make good on his mistakes,after all it is HIS business and if he want to remain successful, he has to treat the customer as what he is, the man that is paying his bills. To blow someone off as stated is BS. Refunding someone elses labor is always a touchy situation that needs to be handled in a responsible way, either credit him or make ammends in other areas. I work in a service industry and to make a customer feel he has been disserviced is asking for that person to tell 10 other people his story, or in this case, LOTS of VERY niche market customers. Ray, you blew this one, I would backpedal very quickly on this one and make amends pronto. Swallowing some of these costs is not going to break your bank.

when i called, i went right to the top and talked to Ray himself, he took care of things in his own way, plus blew me off with the labor costs. than talked to walt bedell the engine builder and told off the salesman and said he would never recommend ray to anyone...Ray called him 5 minutes later. walt told him he should step up to the plate and take care of the labor cost. he said he has 14 engines with 14 problems. walt said he doesnt seem to have too much control of his shop .

[rellik eeb]

Right id right, snd wrong is wrong, seems he is on another level to help the little guy, I would be extremely mad, tried to pass a cheapo crank, of as a callies? Not onlyis that Bull $shit, its again the law. Id drive up there and stick that crank where the sun doesnt shine!

[BDS 871 Cuda]

Ray Barton :flip: AAR fiberglass :flip: Jegs :flip: This time Ray Barton is the A$$ RAPE F#@K head! Jegs screwed me and tons of other customers. AAR Fiberglass screwed HEMI FRED, and now Ray Barton screwed George A Nilsen.
We are all just small guys in the world of billon dollar high performance. Now we are all aware of these A$$ SCREWS! I never bought from Ray Barton because of the super high prices, and now to find out you don't get what you pay for and he doesn't back up his word. Well, Screw you Ray Barton

[pishta]

Sounds like we ought to start a sticky Moparchat SH!T L!ST, if you are on it you get your day in court, you fix it, your off. You sit on it for a while and more and more people are exposed to your devious practices. Anyone ever find out what was up with those Dryrotted Hoosier Tires? Ill never forget this guy picketing Griffin Radiators, AT A SWAP MEET! LMAO!

[Ray Bell]

More of you guys should do more of this yourselves...

Then it's down to wrong product... that can be shipped back and exchanged. No massive labour costs to be wasted and argued over.

There's no excuse for behaviour as described above, though I'm not sure what 'blew me off' really means. And if the crank is the wrong one, he should be supplying the right one and making good on the freight charges.

Nice point about the piston balancing. Ya gotta wonder!

[B1owner]

Ya, Its like when you order diamond pistons and rings off of someone and they charge an extra 150 for the rings. ...even though they come in a kit with the pistons. Then later you find out that you should have been charged the same for the whole kit as what they charged for the pistons alone.

[george a nilsen]

Originally Posted by Ray Bell

More of you guys should do more of this yourselves...

Then it's down to wrong product... that can be shipped back and exchanged. No massive labour costs to be wasted and argued over.

There's no excuse for behaviour as described above, though I'm not sure what 'blew me off' really means. And if the crank is the wrong one, he should be supplying the right one and making good on the freight charges.

Nice point about the piston balancing. Ya gotta wonder!

when i found out about the crank i called Scat to see what i got and he said it was a premium crank that would support 1800 hp. this crank was $1878 and a callies billet crank is $2500. so i settled for the Scat for what i am building.....blew off means the engine builder should eat the problem....but who is paying the engine builder...ME

[Ray Bell]

So he's shafted you for $625 for the crank, even though it's not a lesser quality than you want, and you still don't want to explain how someone 'blows you off'?

Sorry, I really want to know what that actually means, the actual type of words used.

[moparmussel]

i like the idea of a vent and make right thread! give vendors a chance to make right there mistakes or be posted on thread as a flag for us all to avoid a costly and pissed off experience! we all learn by mistakes,lets turn it into a positive thing.

[Buddy Branon]

I thought the crate Hemis and Mopar Performance were the only ones that had problems???

[george a nilsen]

Originally Posted by Ray Bell

So he's shafted you for $625 for the crank, even though it's not a lesser quality than you want, and you still don't want to explain how someone 'blows you off'?

Sorry, I really want to know what that actually means, the actual type of words used.

the bill said RBRE on trac 4340 non-twist crankshaft 45.00" stroke std chry...i paid $1878.00... after i found out i didnt have a callies billet crank, i checked to see what the callies billet cost and it was $2500

ray blew me off saying the engine builder usually eats the lost labor cost...this is all part of building an engine, ray says, but i have to pay the builder...this is blowing me off making me pay for his mistakes

[dart70]

This is good to know, I am in the market for a small block stroker kit and will not buy off of barton now. Can anyone recommend a place to buy a balanced rotating assembly.

[Dave 572]

Originally Posted by dart70

This is good to know, I am in the market for a small block stroker kit and will not buy off of barton now. Can anyone recommend a place to buy a balanced rotating assembly.

Best Machine,or ? .If you need a Hemi built by someone that stands behind their work,FHO is the place to go.Tim rebuilt a customer's engine that had a valve head break off( not Tim's fault) at no charge.He also picked up the tab to have it air freighted back to Canada from San Fran.To me, THAT is standing behind your work.

I'm with you, George.Post your Barton probs on as many forums as you can.At least until he threatens to sue you.

[345Dart]

ya might want to check out www.hughesengines.com and talk to Dave - no one else in the shop - just Dave. he is very busy so be patient - but knowledgeable. yes there are others.

[Dick]

George seems to have valid points and concerns about the quality of his engine work. I believe that Ray Barton's side should be heard before anybody throws the noose over the branch. Some of this could all be due to a misunderstanding. It would be nice if we had all the information as told by all parties involved.

I don't mean to take sides. To the contrary, I think we should remain neutral until everything is known. Ray Barton has been a respected name for some time.

[george a nilsen]

Originally Posted by Dick

George seems to have valid points and concerns about the quality of his engine work. I believe that Ray Barton's side should be heard before anybody throws the noose over the branch. Some of this could all be due to a misunderstanding. It would be nice if we had all the information as told by all parties involved.

I don't mean to take sides. To the contrary, I think we should remain neutral until everything is known. Ray Barton has been a respected name for some time.

this is the reason i went to Ray Barton in the first place, the respected name. like i said i spent $5400 on a rotating assembly plus a cam and to have all these problems is unbelieveable. i also posted this in MOPARTS and also emailed the post to Ray Barton Racing engines to see if he would respond. i had over 600 viewers. did Ray Barton respond, no! i also heard that Keith the salesman that sold me the parts was fired. the other salesman that is there isnt much better.
so than we say why am i posting my problems, so everyone can see what happened to me. i am not happy and this is costing me unexpected money that i didnt plan on. on top of the big money to build this hemi. my engine builder got the motor June 14th. he said he would squeeze me in.with the problems solved[ i hope] hes going to wash it all down and get back to building it this week end. so what is todays date, Sept 17th Wow maybe i"ll get this in the roadrunner before the snow flies

[george a nilsen]

Originally Posted by Dave 572

Best Machine,or ? .If you need a Hemi built by someone that stands behind their work,FHO is the place to go.Tim rebuilt a customer's engine that had a valve head break off( not Tim's fault) at no charge.He also picked up the tab to have it air freighted back to Canada from San Fran.To me, THAT is standing behind your work.

I'm with you, George.Post your Barton probs on as many forums as you can.At least until he threatens to sue you.

if i were to do this all over again i would go the FHO/ Tim banning who is a great business man. i bought a set of norris rockers and shaft through him for my 426 hemi/ top self. i bought a complete set of stage v heads, stage v rockers, shafts and stands with the competition port and polish job. he had the heads on and off his flow machine at least a 100 times till the flowed to his highest numbers. Tim Banning is the best!!!

[Duster_340]

What is tim's website?

[Dave 572]

Originally Posted by Duster_340

What is tim's website?

www.forhemisonly.com

Personally,I wouldn't go anywhere else for a Hemi.Not even the local Guru.

[451Mopar]

I used to think Ray Barton was the "Man" from all the press he has gotten, but a friend has had some Ray Barton engines and I'm not impressed, expecially for what they cost.

How about a list of "GOOD" vendors.
This was my experiance from several years ago, so things may have changed?
I got a set of heads from Koffels Place, and they were nicer than I expected, and service was pretty good too. I originally thought they were on the expensive side, but the quality is there.

Muscle Motors Racing / Chuck Senator, When I called Chuck he was great spending time on the phone answering questions, and the short block I received from then has ran great for many years. So I give them credit for good service and a good product for the cost.

MadCap Racing / Mario <Forgot his last name>, Very good machine work at a reasonable cost, and Mario was great to work with.

I also have a list of good products, but I have not delt directly with the dealers.

[bigiron]

I had my own issues with Ray and probly won't be shopping with him anymore either. I won't go into details but I'm pretty sure I am one of his "Acceptable Losses"

I think they have the attitude that if you need to ask price you shouldn't be shopping with them... but they don't treat you like that until after you have problems. On top of that they basicly tell you you should EXPECT problems with performance parts just because of the nature of the business. Now THAT I cry foul on...

I could go on and on about my dealings with them but suffice it to say their $450 signature valve covers are no longer on the car and the stock MP ones are.

[george a nilsen]

wow and i even bought tee shirts with the ray barton logo that i use for rags now in the garage after my problems. i guess this is the lessens we learn at our expense. the only good thing is we can tell our mopar brothers !