Timken claims new crank bearings have less friction

[HankL]

The Timken Company shows off its Engine Antifriction Bearings, which the companys says improves fuel economy by 5-7 percent, at the Techworld 2005 show at the General Motors Technical Center in Warren, Mich., on Wednesday. Auto suppliers this week presented future devices to GM in a top-secret show called TechWorld. Only six of GM's top suppliers were invited to the three-day event at the automaker's research and development hub.

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appears to be a heavy duty roller bearing type in place of the traditional metal sleeve bearing

[B1owner]

Those look like Eagle rod caps!

[dwc43]

I always wonderd if that could be done to an engine. It would be great from a racing stand point if it could hold up to high rpms and high loads.

[skankweirdall]

I remember roller bearing crankshafts for Volkswagens in the 70's, that isn't anything new. The Scat (IIRC) VW cranks were pressed together though with one piece connecting rods, no rod caps in other words.

You can do this on the VW because the piston jugs go on after the crank, rods and pistons are installed.

[dust]

I wonder what the price difference is going to be with these HD bearings style compared to metal sleeves style....

[1973Swinger]

Probably at least double if not triple the price of conventional bearings.

[dwc43]

It would be worth it if it shows a good power gain on the dyno after reducing all that friction.

[64dartwagon]

Seems quite familiar to the roller bearings that are already used for camshafts in high rpm motors. And I bet the price is 10x higher initially, plus machine work for fitting.

[cutting torch]

If there ever is a retrofit kit, it would have to have some outer races for the bearing, at least in the block. I'm sure the crank and rods could be heat treated to take it.

torch

[jelsr]

Probably similar to the big outboards with the cracked joint setup. Harleys have ran roller lower ends for years but with 1 piece rods. Oil pressure and volume would be interesting on a roller setup with 8 cyl's.

[pishta]

How much friction is on a liquid bearing anyway (rod to crank is on a thin layer of oil, look how long babbit bearings last doing that!) They are using liquid bearings on hard drives. Wonder if they are going to rollerize the crank too? Friends dad had a roller bearing cam in his 327 back in the iron age. If they can figure out a ringless piston made of ceramic in a ceramic sleeved cylinder for expansion coefficiant, that is alot of friction to deal with along with servo activated valves, no springs, no cam! Literally dial in your duration and lift! And then again, turn the exhaust heat through a thermocouple and use that power to run your 48V power bus, no alternator! Its all in the works somewhere deep within...

[benno318]

pishta, you beat me to it, i was going to also say that the bearing and crank are not directly in contact. the thin film of oil between the two seperate both from each other and obviously any subsequent damage. i wouldnt expect a major gain from this type of bearing, but who knows, anything is possible right? must be something in it no matter how small if the oem's are looking into it...
ben simpson

[dodger1]

Bikes (my old 79 Suzuki GS850) used roller-bearing, multi-piece, pressed-together cranks. But newer high-horsepower bike engines use plain-bearing cranks.(like 150 HP out of 61 cu. in.) What has Timken found out that the bike guys haven't?

[dave571]

Ski doo's use full roller brgs also.

It's a neat idea, but I doubt a retro fit will come available for older stuff.

There's no reason for it. The cost would be crazy(the stuff, and then the extra machine work) I doubt stock rods even have enough meat on them, to make them work..

Manufacturers have constantly been reducing motor friction in ways we don't use in our old cars.

Running tighter clearances with thinner oil. New fords come with 5w20 in them from the factory. It is the specified oil. The reduction in friction improves economy, and emissions.

I would like to see the fully electronic valve timing concepts come to race applications. That would make big power through the entire rpm band.

Imagine a gas engine with no throttle plates, much like a diesel. Air fuel delivery is controlled only by injection timing, pulsewisdth, and the valve timing. The thing is, you don't have to IMAGINE it. These types of motors are already in the showroom, and not as prototypes.

[pishta]

Then again, imagine a car that runs on 2 chemicals, like acid and water. Battery becomes depleted, you just change the fluid in it, not the battery itself. Chrysler was working on this a while ago but I have not heard anything lately. It was in the electric car buzz days and they were trying to figure out how to charge a battery at a service station in 10-20 minutes, they decided that the electrolyte would be easier to change than charge, dont know what the electrolyte was though. My 71 Honda AN600 subcompact car had a needle bearing pressed crank and 1 piece rods too. It got about 50-60 miles to the gallon out of a single Keiken carb on the freeway.

[DAHEMIKOTA]

Ah, the ultimate roller bearing crank. If only you knew the R&D that went into those things.They work in airplane engines ( VW was used for that purpose) but they don't like high RPM. The oil dams up in front of the roller and locks the shaft. Thats probably what those little brass inserts are between the rollers in that picture you posted. An attempt to keep the oil from getting in front of the roller. Oil molecules like to roll. Thats why polished surfaces have less resistance to turning with a film of oil on them. A roller tries to ride op on top of the oil surface at high speeds and that takes up space and creates heat and friction. Two stroke engines have oil and gas mixed which make a thin lube. The mixture is constantly being cycled. Aircraft engines usually don't turn over 2500 RPM. Try turning high RPM's in a roller bearing VW engine on a race track. It will loose power and overheat. Unless they changed them, Indy engines don't use roller bearings. At least the ones I worked on didn't. I am sure someone will find fault with some or all of this, but it's what we found out with many dyno runs and trips to the race track. Just my .02 worth. Dan
PS: The Chrysler turbine used sleeve bearings for all the fast turning shafts in the engine.

[jelsr]

Some of the 2 strokes use loose rollers (like chain saws) and Harleys use caged rollers, SAE 50 oil, and a hi volume/low pressure dry sump system. Both turn respectable RPM. I would think the costs would be staggering for a V8 regardless of method.

[TK]

Sounds great, untill you think about what happens when you get play in a roller bearing.
Yup, wipo!
I have done too many cranks on snowmachine engines, and 4 wheelers to like them. Maybe rollers in the mains would be cool, but, in the rods?
I think the idea of the rollers binding up with oil at high rpm's sounds about right.
Yamaha is having problems with they're YZF series motors shitting roller bearings.