Conversion Pervserion

[BlackAce]

I saw this on Ebay while looking for some parts for my Dart. The listing says that it was in Mopar Action. What the the mag say about it? What issue was it and what do you guys think of it? The only thing I don't like is that it uses Cheby parts!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4583701516





Just found this one too!!!!!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4579783725

Let me know what you think!!!

[dwc43]

I would not mess with that junk. The gm calipers are crap anyways. There's plenty of '73 and up A and B body cars in scrap yards that you can pull parts from. You only need the spindles and caliper mounts anyways since you can buy new rotors and caliper for less that what they want for that kit.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by dwc43

I would not mess with that junk. The gm calipers are crap anyways.

Tell us, what exactly is wrong with the GM calipers? How do they differ from Mopar?

[donsa]

i have been looking at these. i would think any disc brake
would be better than drum.

l would also like to here from someone who has
used these.

[83Imp]

I was looking at a rear disc conversion from Scarebird that uses 79-85 (maybe 78-85) Cadillac Eldorado/Seville rotors. However, there is a slight catch. I started researching the topic and there are some Ford and GM kits that also use the Eldorado calipers. The problem with these calipers is that they incorporate the E-brake and its adjusting mechanism into them. To keep the brake feel from decreasing at a rapid rate, you have to set the parking brake EVERY TIME you park the car. I would absolutely hate that in an automatic car. I know that I would never remember and then, I'd be mad because my brakes were all mushy.

So there is one example of GM rear calipers being crappy, but I don't know whats wrong with their front calipers.

[madmax4073]

Originally Posted by 83Imp

I was looking at a rear disc conversion from Scarebird that uses 79-85 (maybe 78-85) Cadillac Eldorado/Seville rotors. However, there is a slight catch. I started researching the topic and there are some Ford and GM kits that also use the Eldorado calipers. The problem with these calipers is that they incorporate the E-brake and its adjusting mechanism into them. To keep the brake feel from decreasing at a rapid rate, you have to set the parking brake EVERY TIME you park the car. I would absolutely hate that in an automatic car. I know that I would never remember and then, I'd be mad because my brakes were all mushy.

So there is one example of GM rear calipers being crappy, but I don't know whats wrong with their front calipers.

I used to have a 83 Olds Toronado (same as Eldorado) with rear discs and you didn't have to set the E-brake all the time. The brakes never went mushy. I also have a 91 Z34 with the same type of set up and I never use the E-brake and the brakes are fine.

[ehostler]

Wow... I must be one of the few people that actually sets the emergency/parking brake every time I park my vehicle (unless it's below freezing out).

[pishta]

Hell yes, bring them on. My 65's front 5 on 4 rotors would cost more than the whole setup, and try finding Kelsey Hayes 4 piston calipers..and I get to use inexpensive S-10 stuff. and keep my 5 on 4 hubs. Yeah, I would think about it...I had the instructions downloaded about 8 months ago but I think they were from a different manufacturer and it used caprice rotors (?) Ill have to check.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by 83Imp

I was looking at a rear disc conversion from Scarebird that uses 79-85 (maybe 78-85) Cadillac Eldorado/Seville rotors. However, there is a slight catch. I started researching the topic and there are some Ford and GM kits that also use the Eldorado calipers. The problem with these calipers is that they incorporate the E-brake and its adjusting mechanism into them. To keep the brake feel from decreasing at a rapid rate, you have to set the parking brake EVERY TIME you park the car. I would absolutely hate that in an automatic car. I know that I would never remember and then, I'd be mad because my brakes were all mushy.

So there is one example of GM rear calipers being crappy, but I don't know whats wrong with their front calipers.

The front and rears share the same problems. Steel or aluminum pistons, crappy seals, make them stick pretty easy. Have a car in the shop right now that needs rear discs and calipers due to sticking calipers. The rears have a crappy adjustment to them as well. Main thing, there not Mopar which mean s you would be dropping down in quality and pride. I don't cross breed cars, and it's just as cheap to use stock Mopar parts to go from drum to disc.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by dwc43

The front and rears share the same problems. Steel or aluminum pistons, crappy seals, make them stick pretty easy. Have a car in the shop right now that needs rear discs and calipers due to sticking calipers. The rears have a crappy adjustment to them as well. Main thing, there not Mopar which mean s you would be dropping down in quality and pride. I don't cross breed cars, and it's just as cheap to use stock Mopar parts to go from drum to disc.

Sorry, this is bogus on several counts. We use GM calipers because their intermediate caliper architecture has been the same from 1969 to 2002. Due to this, the price is cheaper vs. same quality Mopar caliper. Nothing wrong with steel pistons- they have fewer issues than phenolics. And of course the GM disc pads come in many more varieties...

It is always a good idea to use your parking brake, engage it before shifting into park to save wear and possible breakage of you parking pawl. The 79-85 Eldorado rear caliper is not perfect, but works quite well for the money, and combined with the 1995-97 Crown Vic rotor makes a very affordable rear conversion.

[moraycen]

Yes, I will be using them on my lateist 66 Cuda. Gm, Ford, Mopar whoever . Disks have to be better than 10 in drums. How ever I will drill mine out to 4 1/2 bp.


Still looking for motor mounts for early "A" body with small block.

[flipper35]

I have GM Calipers on the front on mine and they work very well. Of course I only have a 2400# car, but they hold up well for "spirited" driving just fine. I switched because I literally melted a set of MII pads coming down a mountain pass. Have done the same trip with these brakes with no fade at all.

[custom880]

I am with DWC on this. I will not use brand X parts on my car. It's a personal thing with me. I am all Mopar and I will stay that way. I don't shop at Summit or Jegs because I have found that they are seriously lacking in Mopar knowledge. I prefer Mancini, Huges, or other places that put a high priority on studying Mopars and what they require. It is only me and I don't for one second think anyone else has to do what I do. Nothing wrong with someone using aftermarket parts but I get tired of everything in the world being GMized. I have gotten to the point where I hate Hot Rods. Sounds silly and petulant but after going to hundreds of car shows and seeing 99% of the hot rods with Chevy 350 engines it gets more than just boring. Geee can't anyone of the after market companies come up with a Mopar kit that doesn't break the frigging bank? Intakes, headders, brakes, gears, clutches, you name it. If it is for a Chrysler product tack 15% on to the cost. There is no real reason for it. Once the tooling is made the cost equals out. I just bought a stock cam for my 440 today and it cost me 116 tax included. Just for giggles I aked how much for a cam for a big block Chevy. A stock cam for a 454 was 80.00. Amazing simply amazing.

[BlackAce]

I like the fact that someone designed it for readily available parts but why couldn't they do this with Mopar parts instead. Why not use things from a late model Diplomat or a Reliant or somethig. What are the dimensions of an S-10 rotor and try to find a Mopar one instead that requires little to no modification. Like Custom880 said I'm tired seeing everything GMized.

The conversion is a great idea and concept just need to change it for Mopar parts that are readily available!

[pishta]

C'mon Guys, the 65 Barracuda used the SAME disc brake calipers (part #C190 on autozone.com) that the 65 Ford Mustang used..Kelsey-Hayes 4 piston. They made brakes, and wheels period. Does that mean you wont use Kelsey-Hayes parts on your Mopar? a set of 5 on 4 rotors costs 130 bucks..Im all for using Moparts but geeze, Crane aint Mopar, but I run a Crane cam...

[custom880]

Originally Posted by pishta

C'mon Guys, the 65 Barracuda used the SAME disc brake calipers that the 65 Ford Mustang used..Kelsey-Hayes 4 piston. They made brakes, and wheels period. Does that mean you wont use Kelsey-Hayes parts on your Mopar? a set of 5 on 4 rotors costs 130 bucks..Im all for using Moparts but geeze, Crane aint Mopar, but I run a Crane cam...

It's different when you are talking about original suppliers. This topic is about an aftermarket supplier who took the GM route as so many do. I understand why they do it. I just would rather use Mopar parts to upgrade my car. I don't use Crane cams because they use a Chevy grind (or at least they used to) I use a Huges or Racer brown.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by custom880
.....I don't use Crane cams because they use a Chevy grind (or at least they used to) I use a Huges or Racer brown.

Did you know that Chevrolet was on round wheels before Chrysler bought out Maxwell?

[ehostler]

Although it would be nice if they had made a kit that used MOPAR parts, in the end parts is parts...

If I buy EB or INDY heads for my my 440, they are not MOPAR parts. If I buy an EB intake, it is not MOPAR. Any carb that I can buy is not MOPAR. The listgoes on...

[custom880]

Originally Posted by ehostler

Although it would be nice if they had made a kit that used MOPAR parts, in the end parts is parts...

If I buy EB or INDY heads for my my 440, they are not MOPAR parts. If I buy an EB intake, it is not MOPAR. Any carb that I can buy is not MOPAR. The listgoes on...

Ed the difference is this. You don't have to change your engine to use Eddy parts, or Carter, or Holley, the list goes on and on. These manufacturers make parts to fit your Mopar, not to convert your mopar to accept a GM part. As I understand it if the Scarebird parts need replacing you don't buy scarebird parts you buy GM parts? Maybe I am wrong but thats what I read into it. Your aftermarket intake, heads, carb, are a Chrysler design to fit your Chrysler engine.
Louis Chevrolet was on round wheels before Chrysler bought out maxwell, However Walter Chrysler was on round wheels before Louis Chevrolet. WPC worked on the railroad as an apprentice before the turn of the century. Chevrolet was a race car driver and an automobile consultant. he wasn't even an officer of the company that bears his name. That man was cheated big time!

[Scarebird]

The issue also goes beyond what you want to see bolted up to your car. I took an hour this evening to take a second look. 5 on 4 Mopar rotors run $85 each at NAPA, Wagner has some for $70, but am not sure if they are 5 on 4. These NAPA rotors are 0.810" thick- not many calipers for that thickness, especially Mopar, unless you want to run Neon or Spirit calipers, and they have a severe radius mismatch.

Now, if you want to put your money where your mouth is, we could go big here, and use the original Dart rotors and dual piston PBR calipers (1988-96 Corvette). PBR are the class of the field, used in Vipers, Cobras, Vettes, Z-28's and other high performance rides. This would only fit inside a 15" rim though- but if you are serious about stopping, you chucked the 14's already. These components run triple what our budget setup costs, but offer serious stoppage for around $650. BTW, these little honeys run about $101 each plus shipping thru rockauto.com

[SSHAKERR]

Did you look at the instructions?

http://www.tallzagauctions.com/DRT10inch(9-20-05).doc

Mopar Action had an article that showcased how to use Viper calipers and even Porche calipers, using brand X rotors, custom adapters, spacers, and custom machined hubs. BUT... Mopar Action warns about straying from factory engineering. These adaptations are intuition engineered. You don't want to make a mistake with your brakes. I can't see an easier/safer way for you to upgrade your brakes than swaping in a set of 73 - 76 A-body spindles. I have seen the whole set up that you need : (upper control arms spindles (4" pattern) , calipers and adapters) sell for $200 - $300 bucks on E-bay. Or you could probably find a parts car for $500 bucks. Then you would have the correct master cylinder and proportining valve too. Personally I would go for the bigger 11.75 x 1 rotors with the 4.5" pattern. That would be awesome stopping power in an A body. You would then need a big disc caliper adapter too. Make sure you have read this:

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html

Save up some money and do it right. I hope the info is helpful.

[BlackAce]

I wound up picking up a complete set of front disk brakes from a 73 Duster. The whole set up cost me $330 for the upper controls arms, lower ball joints, spindles, backing plate, caliper bracket, caliper, and master cylinder.

[SSHAKERR]

Sweet!! Thats the way to go. If you choose to switch to the 11.75 rotors in the future, it's a simple swap. Good luck.

Dont forget the proportioning valve.

[Scarebird]

We are working on a revision to the 1962-72 B and E body fronts. We are not happy with the 69-71 Fury one piece rotor, as they are somewhat difficult to find- and the 2-piecers are astronomical. We plan on using a 77-79 Cordoba rotor, but it will need a bushed bearing which we will provide. We took another look at the Mopar caliper and found it wanting, being 10% heavier than the equivalent GM piece, with no discernable differences other than it being Mopar OEM.

Now, about "intuition engineering". Any body, myself included, that has gone thru engineering training will realise that intuition (experience) is quite important in solving issues. I know quite a few ME's that can analyse an existing piece, but cannot come up with a new design- they lack this intuition. We design the pieces, then analyse them for strength and other issues.

Using existing Mopar pices is great, but how many parts cars are left?

[pishta]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

Using existing Mopar pices is great, but how many parts cars are left?

Bird, you hit it on the head. 73 front brake setups are nice, but they are drying up. We got 1000 car yards here in So. Cal that have about 20 Mopars in them and maybe 4 are rear wheel drive, it is pathetic! And these yards may have some of the best weathered cars in the US, no salt, snow or rain. You all should go to the Fling (largest west coast Mopar show) out here, there are 4 or 5 guys that have raped every yard from San Diego to Sacramento of anything Mopar rear wheel drive suspension related, and have it for sale for about 5X what they paid for it, and it goes quick.
Keep up the intuitive thinking!

[Scarebird]

Well, we are giving it the extra effort to use the pin-type KH(?) calipers, so no excuses from you guys.

[Scarebird]

We got the new batch in for the B and E bodys and they work well. We now use the 1977-79 Cordoba rotor and pin-type caliper. We had a set of bushings machined out of 4140 steel made to adapt the A17 bearing (and it's freak size) to the A2 shaft. You will notice that the bottom is belled out to match the two locking radius's. Works quite well- the shop we had do it fabs much work for Boeing and they are quite fussy. This of course jacks the price up $20.

In the picture, you will notice we had the wrong side caliper installed, but the correct side will work fine. We inverted the colors for clarity.

[pishta]

Hey guys, how is this for "you asked for it, you got it"! That is impressive. Now how about us A-body guys?

[64ragtop]

Say, Scarebird, I checked your site and found this info:
------------
1965-72 Dart, Valiant Duster, Barracuda 5 on 4" bolt circle w/9" drum $95

1965-72 Dart, Duster, Demon 5 on 4" w/10" drums $85
------------
What I got lost on is the 1965 first year listing. Were they different in '65 than the '63 and '64 models? I had not seen any indication of parts change from '64 to '65. Of course, as always, I could be wrong. Since I will soon start on my '63 Dart, I want to get my info straight before I spend money I can't spare of stuff that may get me of someone else hurt! Thanks!

[pishta]

Originally Posted by 64ragtop

Were they different in '65 than the '63 and '64 models? I had not seen any indication of parts change from '64 to '65. Of course, as always, I could be wrong.

I think you will be ok, just note the 10's and the discs were 65 and on parts with the disc being a different setup altogether. the 10's were an option as well as the disc's