Are OOTB Edelbrock heads THAT BAD???

[diego-ted]

A very respected small block head specialest had this to say about out of the box Edelbrock heads, Now I know Roger from Edelbrock frequents this board and might be able to shed some light, however If 1\2 of what this guy says is true, it is a crying shame!!! After all we pay darn good money they should be up to standards. If they are not then they should be returned along with the machinest's report and should be corrected on Edelbrocks dime not the consumer. JMHO, Below is what he wrote.

I get to see 20-30 sets of new in box SB E heads per year, I would'nt trust any of them out of the box. But that being said I know alot of people run them, I don't understand how some of them get away with it. Others do get burnt eventually with some type of failure. The #1 problem I see myself with them is guide clearance. Especially in the last maybe 4-5 sets I have bought. They were HORRIFIC. I know that one set had a maximum of .0009" and a minimum of .0002" guide clearance on all 16 guides. Thats bent valves asking to happen, very scary. At .0002" you can barely move the valve in the guide, the drag is intense.... and this is a brand new out of box head.

Let's put it this way.... on the SB E heads I always hone the guides, flat mill them and do a VJ on all new sets. Now.... could you run this stuff out of the box and have it work for a while? For the most part yes. The decks are not perfectly flat and don't have a great surface finish, but for 90% of people using a composite head gasket it probably will seal and they won't know any better. But if you want it "right" it needs milled. The seats.... generally ahve alot of runout and some times do not even touch all the way around on the face. Will the engine physically run like this? Yes. Will it prematurely wear the guides and beat the valves and seats up as well as leak some cylinder pressure? Yes. But you "can" run it out of the box, is it machined correctly? No. And on the guides.... I've pulled some used ones apart that had ran for hundreds of miles with tight guide clearance (sub .001"). I see it just as a case of being lucky a valve did not stick in the guides. If people want to run them out of the box, all I can say is you are basically taking a chance, some will get away with it, some will not. If you want them machined "correctly" pay someone to take them apart and do some measuring, and remachine them.

[ehostler]

RogerH may be able to shed some light on this; however, he no longer works at EB. He left them and went to greener pastures...

[dust]

Good! I like hearing this sort of thing about parts that I only hear good about. Now if you can get more experianced persons to back this up.

I have a pair of Edel's in there box, too bad I dont know how to measure the specs you mention.

[bigiron]

Oh, I aggree that EB heads are not the best in quallity... But in their defense... their cheap... I know, I know, we spend our hard earned dollars on them thinking they cost alot but in reallity they are well below the cost of "Quality" Race heads.

You can't have it all... I'm a business man and I see it every day... Customer comes in wants a High quality item and falls over when they see the price.. Then they settle for an off the shelf item and complains when it doesn't perform like the high dollar one...

Bottom line..... you get what you pay for (at least your supposed to).... That goes on both sides of the balance...

EB heads aren't bad, they do a decent job of performing... I have 1 set, they're the most popular in the this area... I'm going to buy another when I get my other engine together... WHY??? because I'm getting what I paid for... Well, maybe I'll get a set of those new EZ heads (their cheap too...)

Now if you want something to complain about... try a set of 775 blower referenced Race Demons... Cost... $1014 each delivered... plus another 3 or 400 bucks after the sale. They still leak after replacing and cleaning everything I can think of.... I keep putting money into them and they keep leaking fuel out of them... and the company has COMPLETELY blown me off... (acceptible loss kind of thing..) now THAT'S not getting what I paid for.

[B1owner]

Brodix heads arent much different, they need valve jobbed and surfaced as well.

[rumblefish360]

Every aftermarket head has these problems. Not one manufacture has escaped this talk at one time or another.

[pishta]

Is it the material they are all cast in? I know working in an aluminum forge is 90% grinding of a finished part, maybe this stuff is a little too "expansive" if that is a word, you know it gets hot, things move a little and then are machined and it cools out of shape again. Does Edelbrock make a cheap bare casting that can be machined correctly from the start by a competant machinest? Like a bare W5.

[bigiron]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

Every aftermarket head has these problems. Not one manufacture has escaped this talk at one time or another.

I tend to aggree... I would just as soon get a set of heads that needed a little touching up on the machine work as to fight a porosity problem and SEVERAL manufactures had that problem at one time or another.

[moparmussel]

what would be a cost effective way to make power from 340 block with 360 heads? have j heads,should i have machine work done,pistons ,cam,would like to see 380 to 400 h.p. buy ed heads,send them to machine shop? keep 340 block,number match,and buy a crate 360 to run in cuda? is a crate motor going to have the same head problems as aftermarket heads,due to slap it together for production numbers?

[rumblefish360]

No MoPar creates. Bad, very bad. (Been there.)
J heads need to be ported to match Edel. heads. But there are very good. There about as expensive as Edel. heads to take down bare and update and port as Edel.s' OOTB. (Or what they should be OOTB)
Otherwise, zero deck pistons, KB's have a piston for this and work great, cam, a 280 or 230 @ .050 as a min cam. Dual plane RPM/Stealth, 750 cfm, your well ported J head w/2.02/1.60 valves and use headers. Bigger tubes help the big end.

Thats the build for 400, swap meet it or E-bag the parts for less that brand new prices.

[Stoga]

From Diego-Ted's post above, it sounds like they are assembling the heads without checking valve stem clearance first. Also, because of this, I doubt the valves are seated very well to the seats either.
It's probably a very good idea to disassemble and inspect these or any new heads for clearance or other problems before you stick them on your engine.
I've seen a couple of new engines get messed up cause the heads were ok at first fireup, but after you heated them up good, the valves stuck in the guide and all Heck broke loose!
Most folks don't have a valve guide hone , however, I wonder if rotating an old valve with a non-burred or tore up stem along with a little bit of valve grinding compound would gain enough clearance?
I know this is a backyard way of doing things, but could avoid the expense of a trip to a specialty automotive machine shop, IF you even have one in your area.
Either way, I'd disassemble and inspect any cylinder heads you buy before using them. PS: Take the time to mark and number your valves and chambers so you get everything back where it came from if it hasn't been done already.

[George G. Leverette]

I recently visited the Edelbrock factory on a conducted tour. Each of the participants could ask any question and have an Edelbrock rep answer them, it was quite enlighting to hear the honest answers from the employees about the virtures and limitations of their product. All of the heads are CNC machined from a core until the valve installation process, some of the heads are shipped bare the others are final assembled by hand. I have a set of the eddy heads on a small block and have experienced no problems. Hughes states the eddy heads are a true bolt on. Its commendable for a individual to challenge the status quo but others need to come forward with their experiences to verify and validate a real problem if it exists.

[ehostler]

Hughes also inspects the heads, before they ship them to you. They return any heads that are not up to par.

[eric414]

Brodix heads! there's a red dart at my local track with the Brodix heads and rumor has it runs low low 9's. IMO eddys are a alum x or j head

[rumblefish360]

eric414 gave a good description of the edel. heads. But I would like to add that they perform on the level of ported X or J heads.

[83Imp]

This is slightly disheartening to hear this about the Eddy heads. I've been planning on using a set on my 400 build-up for my Imperial. With the price of the Eddys at about $1250 complete, its hard to justify screwing with a set of iron heads and the Indy's are out of my budget. Hopefully I get a "good" set.

[littlecampbell]

Whats the reasoning for eddies on such a heavy unit?

[83Imp]

Originally Posted by littlecampbell

Whats the reasoning for eddies on such a heavy unit?

If you mean the Imperial, I've seen some fast B/RB-powered Miradas and Cordobas in street trim and I don't think the Imperial is too much heavier than they are. All the old literature I've found for the 81-83 Imperial shows a curb weight of 3850-4000 depending on the source. How do you make a heavy car move? More power and some steeper gearing

[littlecampbell]

Cool...

[diego-ted]

Well, don't get me wrong, Eddies even with the needed clean up will out perform most heavy ported iron heads at fraction of the cost, plus the added weight savings!!! I just think it's a shame they have crappy valve Jobs and un-check guides. This is all just standard stuff that should be good to go an a fresh set of heads. And unless we the consumers get proavtive with these manufactures, it will be buisness as usual.

diego

[70AARCuda]

Originally Posted by diego-ted

I just think it's a shame they have crappy valve Jobs and un-check guides. This is all just standard stuff that should be good to go an a fresh set of heads. And unless we the consumers get proavtive with these manufactures, it will be buisness as usual.

diego

Wow...maybe they were machined in China...LOL

[Nightri1]

Most folks don't have a valve guide hone , however, I wonder if rotating an old valve with a non-burred or tore up stem along with a little bit of valve grinding compound would gain enough clearance?

I would not ever suggest this as a way to increase clearance in a valve guide. It must be done with a guide hone. We have two different types at our shop. The adjustable Sunnen type used with a drill, and the Sunnen diamond hone which is a single pass type hone. I even use a small bore indicator to check the clearance to make sure it is not bell shaped but is parrallel all through the guide.
Do it the right way, or suffer the consequences.

In my 20 years of cylinder head experience, I always disassemble new heads for verification of clearances. If you don't want to spend extra money on "ready-to-run" heads, then don't be surprised when they crap out on you.