Help me build my 318 please!!

[ewatts94ram]

You all might remember my post earlier about building my 318 and then changing my mind to a 360. Well I've done some reading on here and I've decided that I'm going to build the 318. Here's what I have for now.

LA 318
Stock Bore
Erson Cam 214 duration at .050, .449 lift
Comp Cams Lifters
Comp Cams Double Roller Timing Chain
Stock Heads
360 Iron Intake
Quadrajet Carb
Stock Exhaust Manifolds

As far as what I want to do to the motor, I'm pretty much open to anything, but I definately want to get the most amount of power for the least amount of money. I am new to the engine building game, and this will be my first build. So I appreciate any and all help that will come. Please help a guy build his first motor right. Thanks.

Eric

[TK]

What is the casting number on your heads and intake??

[ewatts94ram]

Where do I look to find the casting numbers? I'm kinda new to older mopar numbers, I'm more familiar with the newer magnum motors. Thanks.

Eric

[TK]

UUuummmmm........
Heads will be on top of the intake port, if you are looking at the top of the head, I do believe on the same end as the accessory bolt holes, 2nd port back...............

Intake........er............I think it is on the backside.............next to the cut out for the distributor...............Well, it IS SOMEWHERE on top.......

[ewatts94ram]

Ok. I'll look this weekend when I go back home and I'll post on here so I can get some more help. Thanks.

Eric

[ewatts94ram]

Ok I think I've actually started making a couple of decisions on what I'm going to do. I'm going to keep the cam listed above, along with the lifters, and double roller for sure. I'm pretty sure that I want to bore it 030 and put these pistons in
http://hughesengines.com/general/pis...troker_pistons part number 2005, and of course the corresponding ring set. I am also going to buy a set of cheap Flowtech full length headers. I plan on using the stock 360 iron intake that is on there now (need to get casting number), and also the heads that are on there (also need casting number). I was told that the heads have been redone before, and am going to take them to the local speed shop and have them inspected, but I will post casting number here so I can see what I am working with.

That's basically the route that I think I want to go, unless anybody thinks I should just leave the block alone, and just do the heads. Of course if the block gets bored it will also get all new bearings (rods, mains, cam, etc...), and gaskets and the works. I was also kind of looking at buying the stroker crank for the motor, but I'd rather not, unless anyone thinks I should just go for it while I've got everything torn apart. Oh yeah, the motor is mated to an auto and 4.10 gears. Thanks for all the help.

Eric

[TK]

The reason for the numbers is you don't want to put a 360 intake on the 318 heads.
Also, if you are on the cheap, install the stock pistons in your engine backwards.........................

[ewatts94ram]

Ok I will find out the numbers when I get back home this weekend and what will turning the pistons around do? Thanks.

Eric

[TK]

The stock cast pistons have a offset wrist pin hole, which makes the engine quiet by pushing the piston up against the cylinder wall. Installing them in backwards, makes the pistons noisier (trust me it is true) but, takes a lot more friction from your motor. A noticeable amount actually..........
There ain't nothing wrong with noisy pistons.............................

[ewatts94ram]

I'll have to think about that one. As for the pistons that I found, do you think that they are what I need? I don't necessarily have to go 30 over, just threw it out there. Also, do you think that my cam will be good enough? Thanks.

Eric

[Dart 65]

Are you on any sort of monetary restrictions? What is the dollar amount you can spend on the rebuild? We can help you get very exotic if that's what you want, or help you keep it cheap.

[cageman]

I dont know what you have for compression now, but I would go 9.5 to 1 for sure, that will wake any 318 up.

[ewatts94ram]

Money wise I would to keep it around $500 or $600. I know that isn't a lot, but I'm a poor college kid and that's the best I can come up with for now. I would also like to re-use most of the parts I have if possible. As of right now it is looking like re-using cam, lifters, milling heads .030, intake .015, or decking the block, possibly turning pistons around, headers, a 2500 or so stall TC, and either a 600 edelbrock or a 650 holley. Let me know what you guys think, and also if you have any other ideas. Like I mentioned before, I will get the casting numbers off the heads, block, and intake this weekend when I go back home so everyone will know exactly what I am working with. Thanks again.

Eric

[TK]

What kind of crazy SOB would put stock pistons in backwards!?!?!?!

Oh, me.

[ewatts94ram]

I did some research on the Edelbrock website, and I was looking hard at their performer package. After looking at the parts involved, and the prices, I think that I am going to go with the Performer Intake (2176), the 600 cfm carb (1406), and use my cam and lifters instead of the edelbrock cam, because my cams lift, and duration are both a little bit higher. Add to this a set of headers, and a 2500 stall TC and I personally think that I should have a pretty stout little motor. Let me know any thoughts that you might have. Will still post casting numbers from block, intake, and heads this weekend. Thanks.

Eric

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by dodgetruckboy
What kind of crazy SOB would put stock pistons in backwards!?

Lots of people building cheapy performance engines do this...

Pistons have an offset pin to keep the engines quiet... but with the pin offset the other way, it changes the acceleration rate of the piston on the different strokes and somehow it gives a little more power. Somebody else might well give a better explanation.

They wear faster and get noisier, though, I guess.

[rumblefish360]

Aviod cheap tricks and do the build right. It'll be done right. Engineers are paid to make these things work. Installing pistons like above will work, but if it was so much better than stock, then the pistons would be designed to be installed that way and have instructions to do so.

If you have 318 heads and a 360 intake and want to save money over new heads, port match the intake side of the heads not more than 1 inch deep. If the pocket allows, install 1.88 - 1.60 valves (360 valves) and again, if money allows, bowl port the heads.

The 360 intake will perform well. The Edel. intake will only save weight and cost money.
Carb size not larger than 650 cfm unless it's a T-Q or Quadrajet. Make it a vaccum secondary carb if the above mentioned isn't used.

IMO, headers would be a great bennifit. Run 2-1/4 inch pipe. (duals.)

[ewatts94ram]

Ok I've done some more thinking and talking to people. What does everyone think about this setup:

Keep bottom end stock.
Keep my current cam in 292/292 214/214@050 449/449
800 TQ

I'm not going to mention anything about the heads or intake until I make sure what the casting numbers are. Speaking of that, can anyone tell me what the casting numbers are and what they mean before I look at them. Just list the possible numbers and what the different numbers mean to me? For both the intake and heads? Thanks.

Eric

[TK]

UUmmm.......
Get them and get back to us, or, what year block is it?

There are so many different choices, it could already have 360 heads...the intake could be a 318 intake.............better just get the numbers.

Installing pistons like above will work, but if it was so much better than stock, then the pistons would be designed to be installed that way and have instructions to do so.

The reason the pin was offset to begin with, was to get rid of noise, just like the nylon geared timing chain, thats all. It does make more noise, but, I built a 360 this way, for a circle tracker, and he put it in his tow truck 3 years ago. It slaps a bit, but seems to last OK, considering it now has over 80,000 miles in the truck.
I do agree, building it right is always better, but, if you have a budget to have fun, sometimes the little cheap tricks work out great.

I did some research on the Edelbrock website, and I was looking hard at their performer package.

I built two performer package 318's a few years ago, before I knew better. They ran OK, but really werent what you would be looking for, and, I swear to god, I have taken off a performer manifold, and slapped a cast iron manifold (it was a 360) and, kid you not, it gained power. Thus my belief that edelbrock performer manifolds are exactly what rumble said,

The Edel. intake will only save weight and cost money.

And lose power IMO.

I would chose a different cam, before buying a Aluminum manifold, the 292/292-214/214-449/449 cam just dont sit that well with me.

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by dodgetruckboy

The reason the pin was offset to begin with, was to get rid of noise, just like the nylon geared timing chain, thats all. It does make more noise, but, I built a 360 this way, for a circle tracker, and he put it in his tow truck 3 years ago. It slaps a bit, but seems to last OK, considering it now has over 80,000 miles in the truck.
I do agree, building it right is always better, but, if you have a budget to have fun, sometimes the little cheap tricks work out great.

Seeing that you quoted me......
Your first sentence is a "All ready known"
This is where the problem is and the cause of most friction.

for a circle tracker

I do agree, building it right is always better, but, if you have a budget to have fun,

At the risk of getting into it again with you...I say here and now yet again, the problem with many posts is the fact that it seems to me people do not remember what they read. Case in point;

ewatts94ram Money wise I would to keep it around $500 or $600. I know that isn't a lot, but I'm a poor college kid and that's the best I can come up with for now.

Unless he said in another thread that this is a circle track racer engine, you got me. But it's not here. Also above you said the engine has piston slap.

It slaps a bit, but seems to last OK, considering it now has over 80,000 miles in the truck.

I do not know of a single engine builder that thinks this is ok for a long life engine. But hey, it works for you right???
I think I'd rather follow the manufactures recomendations on how they say it should work for a long lasting engine thats trouble free.
At his current budget, experimenting (sp, sorry) is not what I would be doing. Just tried and true methods would be done.

[rumblefish360]

ewatts94ram;

Your budget is a bit light @ $500 - $600. Your going to probably need to double it at least.
Bottom line, build a killer short block and worry about the rest later. After the short block is done, it's all small potatos from there.
Above all, make a plan and stick to it!

[ewatts94ram]

I understand that, but what is the point of building a killer shortblock right now if I don't have money for the intake, heads, carb, etc.. that I need to make sure that I can get plenty of fuel and air to make it all click together. I can get a reman'd 800cfm thermoquad from advanced auto parts for about $180, and the 850 is just a little more, I think $190 or so. And the headers i'm looking at are the flowtech full length for about $100. I will know more about the motor I have now after I check the casting numbers later today figure out exactly what I have for a block, heads, and intake. Thanks again for all the help so far, and please don't stop helping. Thanks.

Eric

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

After the short block is done, it's all small potatos from there.

It's also the foundation. Crappy cement work on a buildings foudation will make the best looking, built upper half fall down and make the whole deal look fishy.
If you have a strong bottom end, it will last. That should be #1 in anybodys book.
You can wait it out for the pretty nice "Other stuff" for later.
This way, anything you get later can be swung in without worry about the bottom end being able to handle the new Torque/HP level.

Can I get a "AMEN" from eveyone?

[TK]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

It's also the foundation. Crappy cement work on a buildings foudation will make the best looking, built upper half fall down and make the whole deal look fishy.
If you have a strong bottom end, it will last. That should be #1 in anybodys book.
You can wait it out for the pretty nice "Other stuff" for later.
This way, anything you get later can be swung in without worry about the bottom end being able to handle the new Torque/HP level.

Can I get a "AMEN" from eveyone?

AMEN!

At the risk of getting into it again with you...

Nope, not going to happen.

Unless he said in another thread that this is a circle track racer engine, you got me. But it's not here. Also above you said the engine has piston slap.

Just stating that it works, in a circle engine, and a tow truck, without blowing up. And has worked for me too. In all reality, he is building a drag engine right?

[rumblefish360]

In all reality, he is building a drag engine right?

No, everything about this build so far points to a mild engine. BAR NONE.


Erson Cam 214 duration at .050, .449 lift, very very docile.
Stock Heads says it all. Not that you can't run well with them, but hooked to the above cam???????
360 Iron Intake Same as above on heads.
Quadrajet Carb Same as above on heads.
Stock Exhaust Manifolds SDame as above on heads.

It all points to a upgrade build with what he has.

but I definately want to get the most amount of power for the least amount of money.

This quote by him says it all for his wants. The parts being used limit what hes going to get.
The exhaust manifolds limit HP in a big way. But are OK with the cam above.
Same for the intake. He can go far on stock heads, but there stock 318 heads. Maybe 360 heads. I didn't notice what they are yet.

[usdart]

I agree with others about the cast iron 360 intake being a better choice than the 2176 Eddie. I have used both on 2 different engines. A 318 that I built and a 360 that I am currently running. The stock cast iron 4 barrel intake really feels better. I have since sold my 2176 and won't look back.
I can't help with the 'air gap' or Wieand intakes, never had one to test.

[Dart 65]

I have to agree with RF360; the budget you have to work with is too small to get what you want, I'm sorry to say. $500 probably won't be enough to get the machine work done. The block has to tanked, honed, and cam bearing installed, and that's if the block doesn't need an overbore. Crank refreshing is at least $100, provided it needs nothing but a polishing. The rebuild kit, assuming that you can reuse your stock, probably low compression pistons, is going to be at least $250. That's before you step up to an Edelbrock intake or a rebuilt carburetor. In short, I'd say you need at least another $500 to get off the ground. And keep in mind all the little stuff you'll need like hoses, belts, spark plugs, oil temp sending unit, water pump, etc. That stuff adds up mighty fast. My newly rebuilt 360 cost me in the neighborhood of $2000+/-, and it's not a serious engine at all. I found an Edelbrock Performer intake for $100, a reman water pump for $5, but couldn't justify reusing the old cap, rotor, spark plug wires, etc.

[ewatts94ram]

Ok I got the casting numbers off the heads and off of the intake. Heads are #4027163 which I looked up to be the 77-86 318 heads with 1.78 intake/1.50 exhaust. The intake is #4323352 which I cannot find anywhere. Does anyone have this number, or any number that I could have accidentally read wrong? Thanks.

As for the budget, I know that it is low, and perhaps I should have title my thread "Help Me Pep Up my 318", intstead of what it is.

It is not a drag motor, it just needs to have decent power. I'm pretty set on the Thermoquad, keeping my cam, and adding a set of headers, but as for the rest I'm not totally sure. Thanks again.

Eric

[rumblefish360]

The thread title is fine. Just misunderstood.

So far it sounds like a good build.
Is this intake a spreadbore for a T-Q?

I'll tell ya this only once more. Build a solid bottom end.
Then with what you have now, simply re-use. The above parts will work well together. When time and money allow, you can up grade parts. Your on a good path.

[ewatts94ram]

Now that I think about it that does sound like a better plan overall. Now what should I do to the bottom end, and how can I tell if it needs bored? I know the local machine guys pretty well, so I think I can probably get a decent deal from them. I would like to just hone if possible, but if not I will just bore it .030. As for the crank, should I have it turned, or just buy like a stroker crank? What about rods? Stock rods should be ok, just new bearings. Also, do you think that my heads will be ok if I get them port matched to my intake, and also to the header gaskets? I have a Quadrajet on the intake now, and I believe that that is a spreadbore carb, and I'm pretty sure the intake is made for a spreadbore. I am going to keep the cam the way it is. Please keep in mind that I am on a pretty tight budget, and the less the better. Thanks again.

Eric