Finally got a 440! - a few upgrade questions

[chargerfreak]

After looking a while I finally bought a 440 for my '71` Charger. It's a '76 motorhome 440, but I got it for nothing and it has 26000 original miles on it! Here's the question. I would like to add the Edelbrock Performer RPM package to the engine to upgrade it, ie. aluminum heads, Performer RPM intake, and cam with lifters. They recommend that you use adjustable rocker arms, high volume oil pump, and minimum 9:5.1 pistons for this upgrade. Problem is I can't find specs on this motor so I don't know what the compression is. Has anyone gone this route with a stock '76 era 440? Maybe without changing the pistons. I would love to not mess with the bottom end, and simply add the items I mentioned to the top. Also, anyone with overall specs on this engine would be great, ie. hp,torque,compression. This is my first ever engine build so I'm trying to keep it relatively simple. I'm excited and terrified about doing it. Strange since I've managed, and taught myself to completely rewire my car, replumb all the fuel and brake lines and build a custom interior! Something about the engine. The final frontier I suppose. Thanks much!

[BlackAce]

Here are 440 specs from 68 to 74.

http://www.mymopar.com/enginespecs.htm

[lbk1956]

i rebuilt a 440 last year . it was a 73 my pistons were .180 down in the bore so that gave like 8 to 1 compression like the chart showed. yours is in the same ball field. to get any performance out of that motor you need to go into the bottom end and change the pistons to get the 9.5 to 1 cr. what i did with mine was to go with a set of keith black pistons that were 9to1 comp. then i put on a set of 346 heads that had been milled .055. my cr is around 9.6 to 1 now. so if you want to use the performer rpm kit i think that youve got to tear into it . now if you want to just use what youve got, get a set of heads and mill them around .050 or.060 and use the steel head gasket and go mild on the cam and still use the rpm intake and youlll still have a real torque motor.

[lbk1956]

oh, i forgot somethin, i also have a 71 charger that had a 383 in it. the change to the 440 was killer, i just cant get it to hook now .

[TL]

If you put some KB or other hyper. pistons in there you will realy have a package. You hate to tear it apart with only 26000 miles, but those stock pistons are a real handycap. With so few miles the cylinder walls will still be good. No need to bore in my estimation. Have modern lightweight pistons pressed on those rods. New rod bolts. Hone the cylinders. Put it together. 9.5cr 440 with that head manifold combination is something everyone would like to have.

[dave571]

Originally Posted by chargerfreak

After looking a while I finally bought a 440 for my '71` Charger. It's a '76 motorhome 440, but I got it for nothing and it has 26000 original miles on it! Here's the question. I would like to add the Edelbrock Performer RPM package to the engine to upgrade it, ie. aluminum heads, Performer RPM intake, and cam with lifters. They recommend that you use adjustable rocker arms, high volume oil pump, and minimum 9:5.1 pistons for this upgrade. Problem is I can't find specs on this motor so I don't know what the compression is. Has anyone gone this route with a stock '76 era 440? Maybe without changing the pistons. I would love to not mess with the bottom end, and simply add the items I mentioned to the top. Also, anyone with overall specs on this engine would be great, ie. hp,torque,compression. This is my first ever engine build so I'm trying to keep it relatively simple. I'm excited and terrified about doing it. Strange since I've managed, and taught myself to completely rewire my car, replumb all the fuel and brake lines and build a custom interior! Something about the engine. The final frontier I suppose. Thanks much!

I did some measurements on 76 440 recently. The compression was around 7.5:1

Throwing on the eddy package is money badly spent.

It all needs compression to work.

My .02.

You're better to Do a mild rebuild on the motor, with some pistons that will get you close to zero deck. Then do upgrades later.

[chargerfreak]

Thanks for all of the input guys. I was figuring I'd have to tear into the bottom end, but I thought I'd ask. What do you think about the whole cast versus forged crank issue? Obviously forged is much better, but I've got the cast crank now. I'll spend the money if it's mandatory. How much horsepower can you safely run with a cast crank? I do want to drag this car. Also, how about the stock rods? If I stay stock when I add the new pistons do I have to have the rotating assembly balanced? Thanks again.

[hemi03ram]

I just recently built the same 440. Its a '77 block, and the crank had already been swapped with a Forged one. I used new "6 pack pistons", had the std. cranked straightened and balanced. I also used the stock rods, although I did balance them (they were WAY off). I did cheap out on the rods, but for my use, which will be street driving, with very limited dragstrip use, I could'nt justify spending the extra cash. The motor was completed with Eldelbrock heads, roller rockers, Holley Street Dom. intake, Comp Cam and lifters, all new ARP bolts (everything). With these pistons, and a STOCK block height, the deck height was 0.02700 (in the hole). In order to get the compression up just a little more, I went with the Mopar Perf. Steel head gasket, which is not as thick as the regular gasket. (steel gasket is 0.0200). The pistons have valve reliefs made in them. That accounts for 7.00 cc Vol. All this being said, I calculated my Compression to be 9.947:1 . That should be plenty for what I'm going to do. Will work very well with the Eldelbrock heads.
I attached the compression worksheet. it was a spreadsheet, but this site will not allow .xls files.

-Matt

[TL]

I do not have the experiance, however there have been many posts about raceing a cast crank and most are possitive. Lighter, reves up quiker. I do not know the power or rpm limits but I think they are higher than a street car will go. Hope someone smarter than I responds but Hughes sells crate engines with cast crancks, so I think they are fine. As for rods, stronger rod bolts and lighter than stock pistons can probably take more than you will make with a pump gas street car. Again, many here with more smarts than I. Hope they respond.

[hemi03ram]

I think you're exactly right TL. For street applications and even some drag racing applications, cast crank will work fine. You'll probably run into trouble with the cast crank when you try to use NOS, or very high compression, or very high RPM, and especially if you're going to be drag racing every weekend, otherwise, the cast crank will work fine. Just have it checked for straightness and balance it. I would have used the cast crank in my engine, but I lucked out and it had already been swapped with the forged crank before I got it.
If someone's looking to cut cost in a engine build up (street motor), I'd use the existing crank, and spend the money in the compression (Pistons) AND the cylinder heads (Eldlebrock). For the money, the Edlebrock heads are by far the way to go. Even mildly ported cast iron heads more than likely will not out perform the Edlebrock heads.
One of the Mopar mags did a great article on comparing Iron cylinder heads. They flow benched just about every casting Chrysler made (B and RB). In the end, even the "906" heads did'nt preform much better than any of the other heads. The article went on to prove that the performance gains in the "906" head is almost insignificant.

[dkn1997]

you could leave the stock motorhome low compression and stab a blower on that thang!!!!

[chargerfreak]

As much as I'd love to have a blown motor, this is my first engine build. Darn good idea though! I would like the option of adding a little hit of nitrous down the road so I think I'm going to purchase one of the kits w/forged crank, steel rods, and forged pistons. Seem's like the safe way to go.

[lbk1956]

check into 440 source .com , they have stroker kits for around 1500 bucks. that would give you a 496 ci. and it would be new parts.

[dkn1997]

If you want a low budget, good quality kit, check out these guys:

www.440source.com

[chargerfreak]

Hey guys, Just got home and checked out 440source.com. They seem to really know their stuff, have great prices, and had some very reassuring info about later 440 blocks, which made me very happy! Thanks so much for the hookup. If they're as cool over the phone as I think they'll be I'm definitely going to order an entire rotating assembly from them. Two questions; I'm pretty sure that I'm going to build a non-stroked motor. Reason being that this is my first build. Is it particularily difficult to clearance a block correctly, and build a stroker in general (remember - my first build-up)? Also, someone at my work the other day said that stroker motors run hotter. Is that true?

[kamstra]

You should no problems with a cast crank. I am not a big fan of the Edelbrock cams. You may wish to look at the Comp Cams 268 or 274 for your build.

[lbk1956]

i have a comp extreme energy 274 cam in my 440 . i really like it.

[440HP2]

It may be obvious but not metioned-you start tearing that motor down don't forget to add in for a double roller chain-to keep it in time, hi-volume oil pump-keep it all wet with the dinosaur juice, and a windage tray-to keep that juice from splashing on the crank (more horsepower). Might consider adding a six-pack pan (6QTS) more oil no ground clearance problems. Adding all the bolt ons are great, but remember that stock internal stuff may be a weak link in a motor that's raced often. As the saying goes "The faster you want to go, the more you have to blow$$$$"

[chargerfreak]

Yep. I haven't forgotten about everything that you mentioned. All of those items are on the list. I actually ended winning a great auction on Ebay - Balanced rotating assembly with a stock forged crank, new Clevite 77 bearings, shot peened and polished rods w/ ARP bolts, and 30 over SRP forged pistons with Speed Pro file fit rings. Just waiting for everything to come in so that I can get started on the block work. I've also purchased a new oil slinger and SFI harmonic balancer. For the cam and lifters I'm going to call Comp. Timing chain is next on the list. Do you have any brand recommendations?
Also, you mentioned the 6 quart pan. Is that a MaMopar piece? I definitely want the windage tray as well. I was looking at the 7 quart Milodon center sump pan. Do you happen to know if it will work with a '71 Charger? It looks like it will clear the steering and K memeber, but I'm a little worried about ground clearance. It hasn't been lowered or anything but I just got under the car and pulled all the suspension for a rebuild and noticed the stock 383 pan is pretty small and the sump is....IN FRONT! Amazing I didn't blow this engine up already!

[440HP2]

Don't know if the seven qt. pan will clear/ may have to crank up the torsion bars to get ground clearance. But I will add that a guy came out to where we hang out at with a BB 68 Dart and he had an 8 qt pan on it-caught the drain bolt on a manhole cover ripped the drain plug opening and was leaking a substantial amount of oil . Stick with brand name stuff. Mancini Racing is advertising a 1 bolt timing set for B/RB for $79.95, B/RB windage tray w/gaskets for $24.95. Only a stock center sump pan for $120. http://www.manciniracing.com
A six pack pan was available thru Mopar Performance under the Restoration section (last one I can find is from 98, thought I had a newer one), haven't bought a new catalog recently-heard they are going back to Direct Connection.

[dkn1997]

I run SRP pistons and they are an excellent choice. strong and very light. my 440 revs very quick and easy.

[underground racing]

If it works, don´t fix it! The cam, comp extreme energy XE274 is good. You DO NOT need forged this and that! How many of you have actually blown engine due to cast crank? Cast cranks are adequote for most street/strip cars. Cast iron is not as strong as forged(yes I know that), but it dampens vibrations better+your moving parts are lighter!
Not bad idea that mechanical driven plenum expander

[Shaun]

I am also building a later 440-it was out of a truck(a 79,the last 440 made).The R/B pad is stamped 9T with an E,for cast crank.
I took the heads off the other day and noticed I also have a lot of negative deck height. So I am going with the Keith Black domed pistons-either KB236040,or KB184040.Probably the latter,since it has more dome,but first I have to figure in my valve to piston clearance,plus the increase in lift that I will have with the cam change.
I agree that the cast crank is lighter,although not as durable as the forged crank,it gets it's use in many drag applications.
I also agree that Mopar Muscle's Cylinder Head articles show that all the stock heads flow about the same with the template porting only,but with the 2.14 intake and 1.88 exhaust upgrade,it is possible to get decent flow by following their direction. And in the end,the flat runner 346's emerged the best flowing head-no wonder Richard Petty ran 'em!!! I have a clean pair for sale!
Keep in mind you'll have balancing costs,if you get a forged crank and you'll have to get a dampner/balancer for an internally balanced engine. If it were me,I'd stay with the cast crank(with only 20 something thousand miles you should be in good shape). I would have it checked for cracks,polished,maybe radiused and have your rods resized,maybe balanced(most good pistons bought these days are within a couple grams of each other,so they should be fine).BUT,if you have enough extra money-by all means-do it ALL. Forged crank,balance it,get new H-beam rods,forged pistons,parallel deck your block,align hone it,get the Edelbrock heads.... I am not so financially inclined and 450 horses is enough for me. Good luck and Happy Moparring!!!
Shaun