440 connecting rods

[mopower04]

Hey this is my first post on here so if i do something wrong gimme a break! I have a 73 440 block .030 over, speed pro forged pistons with .140 dome, and i'm looking at a set of connecting rods. however I am an automotive college student so i am on a budget and CAT seems to have the answer to my money problems but are they any good?? has anyone used them and what do you think of them? or for that matter any CAT parts, cranks, rods, balancers, etc. The motor is going in a daily driver/mudding truck. any info or other suggestions would be great!

[pishta]

Oh no, not the "buy American" bait thread again! OK, youll hear it from both sides here. Offshore parts are probably made on the same forges and machined with the same CAD/CAM profiles using the same raw materials, but cost less due to looser environmental restrictions, absence of Unions, no minimum wages, no healthcare, no (fill in the blank here). Hey, its a global enonomy. Cummins makes their cranks and rods in Taiwan and you dont see them failing. catpep.com, 440source.com,bulldogracing.com, they are all global customers. You as a consumer can make your decision where you buy your parts. I run a CAT gear drive and ran a CAT fluid type damper in the past and I liked the quality, buildups with CAT components are regularly featured in big circulation periodicals. I got no beef with offshore parts, but check the parts with a mic if tolerances are acceptable. 440source.com will stand behind the measurements or will replace according to a fellow member. Remember when the only car built in Mexico was the VW "Thing"? Welcome to the board and dont let some of our opinions scare you away. We are all here to advance the Mopar badge out in the "mission fields".

[mopower04]

Thanks for the info on the CAT parts. I really belive that that is what i'm going to go for in my application and I hope they work well for me because I have a 413 and 2 360's i'd like to build in the future and knowing the prices they have as long as they work in the 440 i would have no problem using them in the future. Now i just need the money for them because i'm pretty sure i smoked the tranny in my jeep today! Thanks again and I am glad i found a mopar forum to help me out with all my questions!

[Dave 572]

This came up on another site recently,so let me give you the short version.

If you're going to use them I'd suggest you cycle the bolts twice then stretch them to their specified measuremant with a stretch gage.Then take them to a machine shop and have them checked on a rod hone.This will give you the best indication of out of roundness.

Or, roll the dice and not.

[dave571]

Personally, I think that regardless of the quality of these cat parts, I would stick with stock rods and crank. Why?

Because you have already set the bar rather low with the speedpro's. I'm not knocking them, I run a set myself. But they are heavy, and not a premium piece. Well suited to be used with stock stuff.

OEM mopar rods are the best OEM rods (compared to GM etc)
Generally stock mopar rods and cranks can be used on some pretty extreme applications. Buy some arp hardware and your good to go.. That shoudl save you some cash

[mopower04]

i'd like to stay with stock rods. i'm using the stock crank and having it ground. anywho the pistons i have from speed pro are floating and the rods are pressed. can i make that work some how or am i now better off with the CAT rods? also when i have everything together I will be getting the entire assembly balanced if that will help anything.

[jelsr]

If they are 1.09 pins they are pressed, and if .990 you can have the rods bushed to fit.

[pishta]

Dont know, man. Like the Edelbrock or ported iron head question; After bushing, magging, rod bolts and reconditioning the big end of 8 rods, you still got a set of 30 year old rods. Whats all that cost? Around $330 for a set of CAT 5140 OEM replacement floaters or $530 for 4340 H beam rods in floater or pressed. Thats web site prices, probably cheaper from a quantity buyer like Maddog racing.

[dave571]

Full float pins. Yes this does add a new dimension to it.

See what a local guy can bush them for. It may still be the way to go, but it doesn't look like it.

[mopower04]

i found a complete set of the CAT rods on ebay for less than right from the company. they are about the same price on there as it would cost me to have my old rods bushed, oil hole drilled, and reconded, if not a little less. The pistons are a 1.09 floating pin. Oh one more interesting thingy, the 440 i'm using, when i took it apart i found 2 diffent types of pistons in it and 6 six pack rods and 2 standard rods used in the engine??? W.T.F. not sure why but would this cause any consern for the crank now? or will a good grinding and balance be ok?

[djswwg]

the Speed Pro pistons are the #1 reason to replace the stock rods-you said it yourself; they are heavy! It's the rods that will let you down first, everything else being equal. I have CAT rods (6.90" h-beams) in a 600+ hp. stroked 440 and they work great. Remember the stock rods have 30 years of fatigue and only a 3/8" bolt. The Cat h-beams use a 7/16" bolt. Don't cheap out now and blow it up later...................djs

[djswwg]

I forgot to mention in my previous post- I've used lots of other CAT stuff too with good results. Gear drives, fluid dampers, Ford and Chev main girdles, water pumps, etc........................djs. PS, in Canada, everything we buy is a "foreign" made product, no one makes nuthin' here!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mopower04]

hehe awsome. i've also been looking on 440source.com and i found A LOT of great items at great prices. the vintage stuff and the correct replacements mostley but I still think i'm going to go with the CAT rods and dampner. do you know what psi bolts the CAT rods use? i'm pretty sure they are APR but i'm not sure the strength. and did you have any other work done to the rods before you installed them? such as checking bolt stretch, or having the rotating assembley balanced??

[custom880]

I don't know anything about CAT rods. I have Eagle H beams in my 400. I like them very much. They were so close in weight they didn't need balancing. I am impressed with them so far. I know a lot of people don't like certain brands for whatever reason. I guess there is good and bad with any manufacturer.

[djswwg]

unless you buy a stroker kit that comes already balanced, you will need to have everything balanced. we used an eagle crank, ross pistons and a Professional Products harmonic dampner. for whatever reason, the dampner came apart after a couple months use. we got a warranty replacement which didn't last 3 miles so we went with a TCI Rattler and no problems since Always use a rod bolt stretch gauge to get proper clamping force on the big rod ends, with a tork wrench the bolts are usually under torked.......djs

[ShelbyZ-TII]

The damper came apart? Was it one of the conventional ones or the fuild-filled type? What kind of destruction did it cause?

I'm interested in how it ate itself 'cause I have one sitting on the snout of my 318 build. I picked up one of SFI approved ones.

Pro Products SFI Harmonic Balancer

[pishta]

Originally Posted by ShelbyZ-TII

The damper came apart? Was it one of the conventional ones or the fuild-filled type? What kind of destruction did it cause?

I'm interested in how it ate itself 'cause I have one sitting on the snout of my 318 build. I picked up one of SFI approved ones.

Pro Products SFI Harmonic Balancer

"Outer ring and hub are bonded together to prevent slippage" That is where it most likely came apart. Bonded,same as glued. Other fluid type dampers are bolted together. I remember looking at mine and wondering how it was put together as the silicon fluid surrounds an inertia ring that is captive inside the damper. No idea how its enclosed, maybe mechanically swedged or something. It would be a good mechanical design class example.

[djswwg]

Pishta is right, the rubber bonding didn't hold. Luckily we heard the "weird" noise and there was no other damage. On the second one, the decorative trim ring on the face of the damper came off on the first drive, (2 miles to the video store). So instead of waiting for that one to self destruct we returned it and put on a TCI Rattler, which so far is perfect.............djs Ps. the Pro Prod damper was part #90013, their top model, a Powerforce+Plus. Except for the dampers I have had good results with their products, mostly fuel delivery items and intakes

[ShelbyZ-TII]

Ok, thanks for the replies. I'll be keeping a very close eye on this thing.

[mopower04]

Does any one run the H beams from 440source.com?? What brand are they and how well do they compare to CAT, Eagle, Scat, etc?? As a matter of fact how are any of the parts from 440source? Worth it or not?

[djswwg]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and tell you what I believe to be true about ALL the H-beam rods being sold by all the different companies right now. This is based on what I've seen and also the fact that price-wise they're all close. They are all the same forging made in the same factory, probably in a foreign country. They get shipped back to the States were they are finished machined to the specific dimensions required by whatever company is marketing them, and boxed accordingly. Do I know this to be the absolute truth? NO, but compare a few different brands side by side and see what you think. And I think they are all good quality, you don't see rods or rod bolts failing under hard use like in the past. Now remember this is JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So no hate mail please. If anyone has different info I would like to know, as I'm sure we all would..........djs

[Dave 572]

Originally Posted by djswwg

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and tell you what I believe to be true about ALL the H-beam rods being sold by all the different companies right now. This is based on what I've seen and also the fact that price-wise they're all close. They are all the same forging made in the same factory, probably in a foreign country. They get shipped back to the States were they are finished machined to the specific dimensions required by whatever company is marketing them, and boxed accordingly. Do I know this to be the absolute truth? NO, but compare a few different brands side by side and see what you think. And I think they are all good quality, you don't see rods or rod bolts failing under hard use like in the past. Now remember this is JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So no hate mail please. If anyone has different info I would like to know, as I'm sure we all would..........djs

Many, including my self agree with you.The dies may be a bit different from brand to brand, but I believe it's the same foundry.That's why they're so cheap,same dies.

[dusterdood]

I remember seeing a 4.25" crank for a 440 on the catpep website. Has anyone looked into/used this? Sounds like a cheap way to get alot of cubes. (you know for street use, not high RPM stuff)

[djswwg]

everything I said about the conrods is the same for the cranks as far as I know. ever notice how all the vendors seem to start selling all the new strokes about the same time as their competitors? I'll bet the cranks are all from one manufacturing plant also, but again, that's just my guess....djs

[DartGT66]

We have had pretty good luck with the stock rods, up to 7000 rpm regularily with the TRW tanks. Those pistons can be used with floating pins, btu you don't have to do it. They work with a press fit just as well or bad as any piston that doesn't have the lockring grooves. Or you can modify the rods for a floating pin by just honing the small end slightly bigger and drilling a cmafered oil hole to the top of the rod. I don't remeber the clearances, but that's the way for exmple muscle motors did their rods, without a bushing.