need 360 education

[custom880]

As much as I hate to admit it I am very thin when it comes to small block Mopars and I have virtually zero knowledge of 360 engines. I had a guy come by my house today to tell me that he has a 360 engine that was given to him after it was rebuilt. He planned on using it in an opem wheel racer but has decided to go Chevy instead. He has seen all the Mopars at my house and asked me if I wanted it for FREE! Well Hell yes! He just wants it out of his garage. My knowledge of 360's is this.....They are all cast crank engines, they have a longer stroke than the 273-318-340 and most of them were smog motors. I plan on using this engine in my 68 Barracuda (I was going to drop a 383 in it), and I want to make sure it will be worth my while. So if anyone can give me things to look for I would appreciate it. I don't know anything about the engine yet, other than it has been rebuilt.
Thanks

[humbulayed]

hmm well they have (4 in) bore (3.58 in) stroke, roller cams through the later years i think after 89 or so, 1.88/1.6 int/exh, in 74 got 340 cam carb etc e58 for police cars, for upgrades 340 intakes seem to work well, everything likes a good port matching maybe some runners, possibly a .480 lift cam or so really depending on your gears, alotta ppl stroke em out to 408, put in 2.02's.....it really depends on what your looking to accomplish, if its going to be a race car or just street, street/strip, i hope this information can be helpful

[custom880]

Thanks that does help a lot. Like I said I have no real information about this engine other than it is supposedly rebuilt. Do intakes from 318 fit the 360? I have a 318 in my 68 barracuda now that has a cracked block. I want to use the dual plane edlebrock thats on the 318 but I am not sure if it will fit. With the big blocks the longer stroke 440 uses a different manifold than the 400 or 383. Is that the same case with the small blocks? I am looking for a good runner for the Cuda. I was considering a 340 but they go for a lot of money even from bone yards. I then figured I would drop a 383 in because I have two of them. Now that this engine came along I can use it. I just want to make sure it has some real punch. The car has a 8 1/4 sure grip so I am not looking for anything outrageous. Thanks.

[Locomotion]

Did you know that a big block takes a different transmission case than a small block? With a 360, the 318 trans will bolt-up. Only problem would be the external balance of 360's. It should have a balancer on it with a large counterweight cast into the front. On the back end of the crank, you will need to use a converter from a 360 which has a counterweight welded on from the factory, weld weight on your converter from a Mopar Performance converter weight kit or buy a B&M flexplate designed to be used with a 360 and a neutral balanced converter.

It will be interesting to find out what year 360 it is, what mods have been done to it already and if the seller has a set-up for the back end of the engine if it hasn't been internally balanced.

Yes, the 318 intake will fit. Hopefully the 360 heads and block haven't been decked too much because that might affect how well it fits and bolt alignment. Intakes or the intake side of the heads need to be milled a certain amount based on deck and chamber side milling. I don't have the ratio handy.

[rumblefish360]

custom880, I'm going through the same thing only with big blocks now. I just got my first big block. I do pay attention enuff for what I need to know, for now. (Evil laffter in the backround)
So I understand where your at.

Heres the run down on whats different between the 273-318-340 vs the 360.

On the 360, The engine are generally low comp. for emmisions. Do not make the mistake and sell this engine out as a (Performance) dog error motor. Use small combustion chambered heads or closed chamber heads to up the ratio on the cheap.

The engine boss's to mount this engine are different then the 2 smaller engines, but the same as a 340. You can make do with the 318 mounts. You just need to shim it out, or take up the slack. (Read, washers)

The oil pan is diferent. It will not swap between the other 3.
Externally balanced. The only one except the 1 year only extrenal balanced 340 in '73. Do not attempt to use external balanced 340 parts. Wrong balance.

Rear main is different. Thats why theres a diferent pan.

Otherwise, all other parts, except pistons and rings swap right on over.
Now you said you have a dual plane on the 318 now. A Edel. Performer. It'll work fine, but have a low RPM ceiling via comparing other intakes. Again as before, DO NOT sell the intake short. However, a RPM would do the right thing in a big way.

Real punch? Like a mild big block? (383)

Heres the advantage of a longer stroke engine. It will make peak HP sooner than the short stroke 383 and still have very good torque at a weight savings.
Taken right from Locomotions site, he runs a 360.

Best 1/4 Mile ET/mph: 11.545/114.09mph

[custom880]

Thanks guys. I picked up this 68 Barracuda from a guy a couple of years ago for 500.00. The car is pretty rough but it did start! I figured hey a running 4 speed Barracuda for 500, you can't beat that with a stick. The car has sat while I move through other projects. I did bring it into my gagrage last year in an attempt to see how well it would run. Thats when I found out it has a crack down the lifter valley. JUNK. No big deal, I have plenty of big block stuff to use. I have a 1966 383 that I will punch out 30 over with a set of after market pistons. I figured that I would drop the 383 in the car and do it up as an SS clone. That would mean finding an 8 3/4 A body (not cheap) and other messing around. I put the car back on the trailer tarped it and forgot about it. The guy with the 360 peaked my interest. I have decent motor mounts, new clutch and pressure plate, and I don't have to change out the bellhousing, or the rear end. Seems a lot better than my original plan.
The only 360 I ever had was in a 1982 NewYorker
and quite frankly I don't remember to much about it. I will find out just what the deal is on this engine when I go to get it. If past history holds true the "rebuild" is probably a set of gaskets! If so I will tear the engine down and go through it myself. I do have a set of A body headers that a friend gave me when he moved. They have been sitting in my shed for a year now. I know the Cuda
has the standard cast iron manifolds and not HP ones. Since the car was originally a 318 auto on the floor. The guy before me switched it to a 4 speed. Not to bad of a job, but not the prettiest in the world. I am getting a little excited about digging into this thing now. First the slant in my daughters 66 Dart GT gets rebuilt, (this weekend), then the 66 Belvedere II gets it's face lift, then the 72 340 Duster gets it's makeover, then I will get to the Cuda. Ain't life grand!

[rumblefish360]

hey a running 4 speed Barracuda for 500, you can't beat that with a stick.

You are correct Sir, it is included with the deal!
Same kind of story with me. I got my Cuda (A long long time ago) for $600. Hummmm, a'73, 340 Cuda for $600, stick to beat the comp. with included.

First the slant in my daughters 66 Dart GT gets rebuilt, (this weekend), then the 66 Belvedere II gets it's face lift, then the 72 340 Duster gets it's makeover, then I will get to the Cuda.

I need your money. Lots going on there.

[dwc43]

IF that's been built to run in an open wheel IMCA car that should be one bad engine, 880. That means the stock dish pistons were swapped for some flat tops. Wonder what kind of cam is in it? Give use the numbers off the heads and I can tell you if there any good. Pull the covers and see if there's any 1.6 rockers on the exhaust side too. IF you want to builg it up it can hit 400hp with a broad torque range with the proper dual pattern cam. You'll want to usea stepped header 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 or just a straight 1 3/4 to get the most out of it. You can get away with a 1 5/8 with short primary tubes if you could find any. I know at Winchester we used some 1 5/8 18" long weed burners and got a lot of low to mid range torque out of ours.

Let me know if you need help building it up. And don't worry about that 8 1/4, I've put more than 400 hp thru one before and they hold up nice. That's the main reason Mopar designed them to replace the 3/4.

[rumblefish360]

And don't worry about that 8 1/4, I've put more than 400 hp thru one before and they hold up nice. That's the main reason Mopar designed them to replace the 3/4.

More of a cost savings move then strength. The smaller ring gear is the short coming of the rear. Still strong enuff for most street strip cars though.
Also, on the engines power level, I'd shy away from the larger tube headers unless your planning on some HP.

[Dart 65]

How about posting some numbers and maybe some pictures? Have you taken the heads off yet? You might want to do so, just to see what kind of pistons you have. All 360s have dished pistons, but if this was indeed a performance rebuild, the owner probably got rid of them.

[TK]

Agree on the headers.
360 is a good motor.
Everything has been covered, LOL.

[Locomotion]

Originally Posted by Dart 65

All 360s have dished pistons, but if this was indeed a performance rebuild, the owner probably got rid of them.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that some of the earlier 360 came with flat-top pstons. Just not sure of the year or applications, possibly truck.

[custom880]

O.K. Here is the initial rundown on the 360 "rebuilt" engine. As I suspected when someone tells me it has been rebuilt and is free somethings up. I managed to get over to look at the engine late yesterday afternoon. I didn't have my truck so I couldn't take it with me. The engine is NOT REBUILT in fact it hasn't been touched. The engine is on a stand in a guys shop (home A/C company) and it is complete, soup to nuts. I only had a few minutes so I just took a quick glance. It is a 360 which looks to be a late 80's or 90's engine. It has fuel injection with a Holly throttle body on it. Looks to be out of a truck with a very long dipstick. The pulleys are for serpentine belts. The owner of the shop told me one of his former employees bought it to put in a Dart. He quit his job moved away and left the engine behind. The guy has had it in his shop for nearly two years. He finally got a hold of the guy who told him to ditch it. Thats where I come in. The guy who told me about the engine was told by someone else that it had been rebuilt. All in all the thing looks o.k. but no real way to tell. I am going to pick it up on Monday. I know that I can't keep the electronic fuel injection stuff. I will no doubt be needing to change the heads so I can go carb with it. Also pulleys. I know even less about the magnum motors (Im guessing it's a magnum motor). If it is anything close to the one that was in my friends 1500 it should be pretty strong. At the very least it is a free engine and I am happy as hell to get it. I will give you guys numbers from it when I get it home.

[Bob7z7]

Maybe I'm a little too new school, but why not keep the injection? If you're getting a computer witht he engine it basically means adding a $100 in line fuel pump and making some small mods to the tranny for the crank position sensor. If you're not getting the computer you'd have to track one down, but I think they're fairly available in boneyards for the 5.9. Just a thought.

[nhdriver]

Originally Posted by Bob7z7

Maybe I'm a little too new school, but why not keep the injection? If you're getting a computer witht he engine it basically means adding a $100 in line fuel pump and making some small mods to the tranny for the crank position sensor. If you're not getting the computer you'd have to track one down, but I think they're fairly available in boneyards for the 5.9. Just a thought.

If it's throttle body injection, don't bother with it ( '91 or earlier) if it's a "Magnum engine" ( multiport fuel injection) then it might be worth the effort.
If it is throttle body Just go w/ carburation instead.

[rumblefish360]

Those last to (Above) posts are good. However, you need not cahnge the heads to do a carb. Just grab the proper intake for the task at hand and bolt it on with the carb, add linkage and go!
Keep the serpintine set up, no sense going through a hassle to go backwards in time on the pulleys.
Do so find out if it's a Magnum motor or not.

[custom880]

The engine is a multi port fuel injection. The wires that are with it look to be complete. I do not know if it has the puter with it or not. Like I said I only had a few minutes before I had to be somewhere else. I kind of resist using the fuel injection for one main reason. This engine will go into my 68 Barracuda notchback. I would like to make it look as stock as possible. I have seen some A bodies with the later year engine and it always kind of turned me off. I am a victim of my age, I like carbs. lol. Does anyone have any idea of what kind of torque and HP one of these magnums puts out? Must be better than the pathetic 318 2 bbl that was/is in the car now. I do have access to a guy with small block parts so I don't think getting a manifold or pulleys should be to much trouble. Oil pan could be a pain. the one that is on the engine is a deep truck pan.

[rumblefish360]

Manifolds from Edelbrock (RPM) and MoPars M-1 in dual or single plane. The engines were rated @ 230 HP, *I think.*
Though roller cams are expensive @ around $300, thats all you'll be purchasing besides an intake carb and headers for some nice power.
You'll re-use the roller liffters. I'd opt. for a timing chain as well.

[nhdriver]

The 360 Magnun was listed as 245 HP 335 ft/lb torque. As for making it look like an older 318 or 340 that would be hard as the heads are very different. They have don't have shaft rockers, the valve covers don't fit either. You can get an oil pan to fit, (any 360 car pan should work.) Mopar peformance sells an intake manifold for a carburator. Powerwise it should blow away an old 318 2bbl. Are you sure this engine is a 360 magnum & not a 318 magnum?

[pcrmike]

My most recent 360 (a year ago) was a 74 casting, into which I put stck crank, balanced stock rods, SpeedPro flattops, 10:1 with graphite coating, dual roller chain, Isky 262 Supercam (only .435 lift) stock valves, stock rockers, stock pushrods (DID have to change those later) stock-type Clevite bearings throughout, Comp Lifters, HV oil pump, brass freeze plugs, Hedmans, Jacobs wires and Accel plugs. Used an M-1 intake and only a 650 cfm Eddy. This combo is running with ported and polished 915 heads (by yours truly) with mainly bowl blending, guide work and smoothing done. The chambers were polished and the valves were shot with thermal coating. This was put in a '79 D100 shorty that once had a /6 in it. It now packs a A-518 tranny from a van, suitably beefed. The heads were done with a keen eye toward the efficiency and port velocity for good MPG and high detonation tolerance. We took it out and with 3.23:1 gears in a 8 1/4 diff, we found the need for more speing as the first time I hit it the rear axle jumped off the ground and slammed the frame. After suitable beefing, we found it would roast both tires hard in first, a long screech in 2nd and a loud bark in third. It runs like a big block.

My bud (for whom the engine was built) was used to owning Chebbies, and knew that he had to punch his Chebbie from time to time to clear the plugs. This 360 was so torquey and powerful that it was uncanny. He nailed the gas in park to clear the plugs and said he "heard something strange as the tach came back off 8 grand"(!!!) and it didn't run right. He walked me thru what he did, and he was used to a Chebbie going "buuhwhaa" when he did that, but this thing would rev so fast he had wound it in about a second. After changing to moly pushrods and thanking God nothing else went wrong, we checked the idle. Slight lope at 600 RPM. The next day, he is out running with the others on the street and kicking butt. Nobody wanted to race him after a couple days. I told him that because of the cam's powerband, he needed to shift no later than 6 grand. With the cam being advanced 2*, he had so much torque that he needed traction bars. This thing would click off 60 in 4.8 flat on a stopwatch (not the most scientific method, but repeatable) and cover the quarter in (approximately, as we don't have areal track around here, we had to use a stopwatch) 12.7 seconds. We don't know how many MPH it did in the quarter because the truck only has a 85 MPH speedo! I have said all this to get to this point--the 360 can run like a big block reliably, more efficiently, and with a much better weight ratio and availability of parts is guaranteed for generations. BTW--he gets 16-18 MPG daily. I don't know how much power it makes for sure, but the dyno program I built it with says about 400HP at 5200 and 425 lb-ft at 2500 with over 400 available from 2000 to 4500 RPM. Talk about a flat torque curve!!! I am very proud of this motor, and though there are those here who have more powerful 360s, this one gets better mileage at that power level and is driven EVERY day, and usually fairly hard, and had done very well. Enjoy your 360. :-) PCRMIke

[rumblefish360]

I'd gloat to. Sounds like a job well done. And everybody wonders why I keep doing these things again and again and again.

[Bob7z7]

Oil pan could be a pain. the one that is on the engine is a deep truck pan.

OK, so follow up question to this, I assume he's correct in that the oil pan needs to be changed from the rear sump to center sump style, but will the oil pickup also need to change, or will that work with either pan?

[Locomotion]

Originally Posted by Bob7z7

OK, so follow up question to this, I assume he's correct in that the oil pan needs to be changed from the rear sump to center sump style, but will the oil pickup also need to change, or will that work with either pan?

Each oil pan has it's own specific pick-up tube.

[custom880]

Originally Posted by nhdriver

The 360 Magnun was listed as 245 HP 335 ft/lb torque. As for making it look like an older 318 or 340 that would be hard as the heads are very different. They have don't have shaft rockers, the valve covers don't fit either. You can get an oil pan to fit, (any 360 car pan should work.) Mopar peformance sells an intake manifold for a carburator. Powerwise it should blow away an old 318 2bbl. Are you sure this engine is a 360 magnum & not a 318 magnum?

It could very easily be a 318. I am strictly going off what I was told. I was also told the thing was completely rebuilt for open wheel racing and that wasn't even close to true. So 318 is a possibility. It has the taller valve covers but i didn't start digging into the thing. I will pick it up sometime tomorrow morning. It will be fun getting into this thing. I love a challenge, and I love to learn new things.

[pishta]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

I got my Cuda (A long long time ago) for $600. Hummmm, a'73, 340 Cuda for $600, stick to beat the comp. with included.

Got my first Barracuda in 1985, a '65 with a 340 for $650, 2nd was a '65 numbers matching Formula "S" for $800 in '93. Nice scores.

[custom880]

I was able to pick up the engine today. Here are the numbers I could find.

Block casting number... 58020006- 360 (very hard to read)

Block date casting 24 3 94

Intake manifold casting number Holley V/8 53010248

No water pump, no water pump pulley. No tensioner pulley, no idler pulley. This only has the crank pulley which is serpentine. The manifold on this thing is HUGE! The oil pan and manifolds will go. I think my best bet and smartest play is to rip this thing apart and do a refresh on it. No telling if it ever got hot, or had any problems. I will break it down to it's basic form and go from there. There looks to be a crank sensor on the back inside the bell housing. The distributor is an HEI (possibly), not sure. This is all new territory!

[rumblefish360]

'94! Roller cam block!