desktop dyno 2000

[mopower04]

any one have or used desktop dyno or dyno 2000? is it worth the money or is it just a crock of crap? is the basic or the 2000 better than the other? i'm looking at picking it up on ebay and i'm not sure witch one to buy. it seems like a cheap investment to punch in my parts and see what kind of power i will make before i spend a bunch of money on parts and get the wrong outcome.

[yeahmate]

A past post

http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95110

[rumblefish360]

yeahmate, go show, great avatar!

[yeahmate]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

yeahmate, go show, great avatar!

Yeah, well it helps past the night at work

[rumblefish360]

Night worker here myself. On baby sitting duty now.

[zij576ca]

Originally Posted by mopower04

any one have or used desktop dyno or dyno 2000? is it worth the money or is it just a crock of crap? is the basic or the 2000 better than the other? i'm looking at picking it up on ebay and i'm not sure witch one to buy. it seems like a cheap investment to punch in my parts and see what kind of power i will make before i spend a bunch of money on parts and get the wrong outcome.

I've used the Dyno2000 program and it worked for me. Like everything else in this life you take the results with a few grains of salt, if you get my drift. If you can get the program from e-bay for less than $40, buy it. It's a good program and the output reflects the data that you put in. The old saying "Garbage in - garbage out" is very true here. Be HONEST and as accurate as you can (or as accurate as the program will let you) and you will get good results.

The caviat (sp?) is that the only true test is down the quarter mile.

[mopower04]

just for fun could someone run my 440 on a desktop dyno?

440 .030 over
bore 4.350
stroke 3.75
dual plane edelbrock rpm intake no porting
holly 750cfm carb
lunati hydraulic voodoo cam .513intake/.533 exhaust 234/242 @ 50
heads are the stock 88cc chamber cast heads no porting
2.08/1.74 stock valves
.140 dome pistons
10.34:1 comp ratio
stock forged crank
forged i beam rods stock length
anything else just ask! thanks

[rumblefish360]

OK, flow numbers for the heads at least until the lift of the cam and the cams specs or actual part number so I can look it up. What size headers and pipe?

[mopower04]

i'm not sure what the flow of the heads are. what ever they are stock. and the cam is summit part number LUN-60304LK hope this helps some. thanks again

oh yeah flowtech headers 1 3/4 primary tubes 3inch collectors summit BIG-13504FLT running 2 1/2 pipes

[rumblefish360]

Does anyone out there have his heads and basic numbers. I'lll look around to see whats out there and what people have done.

[bigiron]

One thing that is VERY noticable about Dyno2000 is that the torque is way off, at least on long rod engines... like the 440s and big pontiacs... as usuall the thing was programed for chevys and their numbers are pretty acurate, but for BB Mopars the HP is fairly close but the torque is off by a quite a bit. At least that is what we have seen... same with the big pontiacs we've done... We have not done any small Mopars so I don't know if there is an issue there or not.. someone out there should have info on that....

Their must be some generic thing about HP that is constant when building engines...Dyno2000 does a decent job on HP #s with most mods done to setup... but even when we start stroking sb chevys the torque starts to get screwy.... yet the HP #s stay close... not perfect but close enough to get an idea of what you have.... I just wish they would get closer on the torque #s...

Just my experience...

[pishta]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

Does anyone out there have his heads and basic numbers. I'lll look around to see whats out there and what people have done.

here is my 906 flow numbers in DD2000 form, you can get the raw data:
906 stock Valves

1 2.080000 valve size
1 28.000000 inches mercury
1 0.200000 132.000000
1 0.300000 175.000000
1 0.400000 194.000000
1 0.500000 199.000000
1 0.550000 202.000000
1 0.600000 203.000000
1 0.650000 202.000000
1 0.710000 202.000000

1 1.810000 valve size
1 28.000000 inches Mercury
1 0.200000 98.000000
1 0.300000 127.000000
1 0.400000 143.000000
1 0.500000 150.00000
1 0.550000 152.000000
1 0.600000 154.000000
1 0.650000 156.000000
1 0.710000 158.000000

Oh, the DD2000 link is no longer valid, I had to remove it from the server, it was too big.

[rumblefish360]

Pista, were starting flow at .200 valve lift and finishing at .710 right?

By making use of the numbers from Pista, the program comes up with the following;

RPM.......HP..........TQ..........

2000......165........434
2500......215........452
3000......259........453
3500......306........459
4000......348........457
4500......376........439
5000......384........403
5500......369........353
6000......339........297............and falls like a brick there after.

Click this before listing parts for dyno sim, http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96116

[pishta]

Yeah, that is the data I have.

[mopower04]

that doesnt seem right does it? i was thinkin in the range of about 425+ hp. what would be a better way to acheave that or more? port heads? cam?carb? exhaust?

[pishta]

Its all in the ability to pump air in and out and the limiting factor with almost any hi-po motor is the heads, mild port job yields alot more flow, and of course if you wanna GO , you need to FLOW. Look at a Honda motor and giggle, they get almost 100 stock HP out of a liter , thats 60 cubes! Imagine a 730 hp fuel injected 440 motor that purrs at idle, stays cool and comes with a 36000 mile warranty. I know Im comparing wheat to rice, but those heads and associated valvetrain flow some air! Plug in a aftermarket BB chevy head into your DD2000 and see the difference. Someone should get a few B1's and Indy's plugged into the database. I did that 906 and it took me about 3 minutes to build the file from the raw flow bench data.

[humbulayed]

can sumone take a guess at what kinda power my 318 makes?!and maybe do the desktop dyno if your bored

86 318 block 3.91 bore 3.31 stroke (prolly already knew that but put it anyways)
302 casting heads 3 angle valve job, gasket matched to dual plane performer rpm intake, milled .010, 1.88/1.6's from comp
head gasket .041 in
hyd roller cam from comp .450.450 adv duration 254/262 112 deg lobe sep.
lifters, and valve springs from comp as well
650 cfm edelbrock
1 5/8s full length hedmens
elec distributor quicker advance spring
that about covers it i beleive....

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by mopower04

that doesnt seem right does it? i was thinkin in the range of about 425+ hp. what would be a better way to acheave that or more? port heads? cam?carb? exhaust?

Larger intake valve, stainless steel on both valves would be nice. Pocket ported at a min. The heads nead to breath some. Your cam is a decent one that needs better heads or head work.
The 440 could you an 850 cfm and what dual plane is on there?
I'd run a "X" over 3 inch system with Dyno Max or equal mufflers.

Click this before listing parts for dyno sim, http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96116

[RoadRaceJosh]

Without head flow numbers it won't be accurate. '302 heads flow pretty poorly on the exhaust side. With that short duration cam you're probably around 270hp give or take. Also if you can get out the cam card and give use valve opening and closing points it would help. Also need to know piston deck height, chamber volume and valve relief volume.

The '302 headed 318 I built masqueraded as a HP273. It had a very small mechanical cam (but a little bigger than a HP273), an LD4B Edelbrock intake, a Holley 3310-2, (had been the stock iron single plane and Holley 8007) KB flat top pistons at 0 deck, Eagle SIR rods and stock exhaust manifolds exiting through a single 3" pipe. The car was 3250 lbs with me driving and turned 14.6s at about 94MPH. That works out to 210 rear wheel horsepower and 248 flywheel hp.

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by humbulayed

86 318 block 3.91 bore 3.31 stroke (prolly already knew that but put it anyways)
302 casting heads 3 angle valve job, gasket matched to dual plane performer rpm intake, milled .010, 1.88/1.6's from comp
head gasket .041 in
hyd roller cam from comp .450.450 adv duration 254/262 112 deg lobe sep.
lifters, and valve springs from comp as well
650 cfm edelbrock
1 5/8s full length hedmens
elec distributor quicker advance spring
that about covers it i beleive....

Year of block is a non concern to the program as well as, any milling, distrib choice or valve springs and how well it works as well as brand of part used.

Now, if you have head flow numbers, it'll be a bit more acurate. I'll just plug in stock heads and valves with the correct sizes you listed.
Your missing comp ratio, I'll plug in 8.0-1
Intake centerline, I did 106
Headers, good, the rest of it is a closed system or a open system? I did a closed system.
What Edelbrock carb is it. An AFB or AVS?
Most people call there AFB a 650 when it's not. Not that I'm convinced the AVS is 650 cfm. But....thats what gets pluged in.
I'll also have to assume, hate to do that, that the cams specs are advertised.

Your results, with a grain of salt or 6-8 more since I had to guess some and the head flow is at a default setting.......

RPM.... HP...TQ..
2000....126...329
2500....159...333
3000....193...337
3500....226...339
4000....250...328
4500...261...305
5000...255...268
5500...234...223 And falling hard, allready down nearly 30 hp and 116 lbs. in torque.
6000...203...177

Road race josh has a pretty good guess IMO.
Click this before listing parts for dyno sim, http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96116

[humbulayed]

i hate to sound ignorant but i really am about some things. im not sure where to get flow numbers. 106 centerline is correct,the rest of the system is closed and i dont kno the diff between afb or avs and the cam specs were advertised, but the compression ratio is close to 9.1-2:1 you can try it with that compression if you want

[pcrmike]

Someone mentioned the torque being way off. It's lower on the DD isn't it? The last 360 I built shows a broad torque curve at over 400 lbs from 2000-4500 with a 435 peak, but it feels way stronger (though I don't know how) than it shows in the numbers. I have embarrased some BB chevies with this new 8.1 that makes 345 HP (mine at 375) and theirs does over 500 lbs torque, but mine just trashes them. When I say "my" it is because I built it for a bud of mine. The two trucks, a full size Chev and a full size Dodge, aren't TOO much different in weight are they? :-) PCRMike

[bigiron]

Just to clarify... long rod engines seem to generate more torque... that seems to be the problem with DD2000... so the number it reports are skewed to the shorter rod engines... I don't know about the sb Mopars I haven't had an opportunity to set any up or dyno any of them. (I'm a BB Mopar man myself)

The numbers reported are lower than actual dyno pulls. If you dyno a short rod engine like a 302 ford the numbers reported are slightly higher than the dyno numbers... I can't say that this is a certainty.. it's just something I have noticed when comparing the two... and it's always the torque numbers that are off... HP seems unaffected... At least they're ballpark enough...

Now I probably would not take this info to the bank without a little more input from others that may or may not have noticed the same thing.. but we have done several engines and that is what I have seen.

And again... I don't know the specs on a SB Mopar... is it considered a long rod engine (as opposed to a chevy)?? The last SB Mopar I owned was a 340 in a 70 Dart Swinger... but that was back in 75-78... and a \6 in a Dart in 82... EVERY other Mopar has been BB... Maybe others can vouch for the validity of the DD2000 numbers for them...

One other point of intrest might be that DD2000 doesn't do that good of job with forced induction either... the numbers it reports are much higher than actual dyno pulls... again that is only me talking and what I have witnessed... it shows my Hemi up over 800 HP when in fact it is only a little over 725... and the torque it reported was way to high and came in too early... allthough it does have tons of torque early just not as much as reported...

Hey... I'm starting to ramble.. sorry about that... just love to talk I guess...