clutch selection

[SSHAKERR]

My clutch is warn out, so I will be replacing it soon. I ordered a Lakewood blowproof bellhousing. Now I need to choose a clutch/pressure plate combo. I have heard a few opinions. I drive between one and two thousand miles a year. Usually not in traffic, and hard launching is definately on the menu. I would like to hear the opinion of someone who has been through a few brands and has a basis for an opinion, so....

? Borg Warner -Brute Force
? Centerforce -Dual Friction
? Hays - Street/Strip Clutch
? McLeod - Performance
? Ram - Street/Strip
? Zoom - High Performance

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by SSHAKERR

....

? Borg Warner -Brute Force
? Centerforce -Dual Friction
? Hays - Street/Strip Clutch
? McLeod - Performance
? Ram - Street/Strip
? Zoom - High Performance

All of them are good except this one,Centerforce -Dual Friction . It's a diaphram pressure plate and you don't want those since they do not hold as well. You want a Borg and Beck style that uses the the forks instead of the diaphram type so you wont have any slippage.By the way, that's right out of Mopars suggestions too. Check out there chassis book. I have a Ram in one of my race cars and it works great and it's a Borg and Beck type.

[cageman]

I have a centerforce in my 71 d200, it is an awesome clutch and it has never ever ever slipped on me, and I do clutch drops like nobodies business.
I have a Hayes in my 70, and it is the biggest piece of shit on this earth, but I have alot of money in it and it aint coming out till it is fried. I have a turd 318 in it and it slips something fierce and it smokes up the cab bad.
I have a Borg warner on my valiant and it too slips something fierce. I love the smell of money wasted on a crappy clutch.
If I was to do it all over again, I would have a Centerforce in all of my vehicles, not just one. That thing has takin a beating, I bought it 5 or six years ago. It is a dual friction, when you get movin rpm wise she holds really good, unlike the Borg beck style I have in the other cars. And it has a real nice pedal, unlike the borg beck type.

poooey.

[flipper35]

I have a Hayes. Sits behind a healthy 360 and in front of 295 section tires with a 2.72 rear end. Spins both tires with ease and the clutch never slips. I have a hyd. clutch so I can't comment on the ease of use. Mine is easy enough for my wife to drive in stop and go traffic.

[SSHAKERR]

Ok, DWC43. You arent the first one to tell me centerforce DF are cheaply made. One local guy tells me they are nothing special materialwise, just some extra springs and weights. He said they suck. He likes Brute-Force. Said he side steps the clutch at 4000 RPM all the time. No problem. A local drag racer suggested a Ram clutch but he liked centerforce too. He said he knows they(Centerforce) grab hard because he sees kids put them in their 5.0 mustangs with a stock gearbox and the gearbox goes. Said its not a good clutch to put with a wimpy gearbox. Of course he said the 833 was up to the task. (thats why he used the 833 behind his chevy for many years) I have driven a 89 stang with a centerforce DF. It was a pleasure to flog. But its not as heavy as an E-body and didnt have the grunt of a big block mopar. I am still open to opinions and I hope more people will respond.

In regards to the borg & beck vs. diaphram. Ive been told a performance Borg/beck would be stiffer and harder to slip in street driving situations. My racing friend told me the diaphram type is more common in street/strip driving. However he recomended losing the over-center spring and fabricating a simple bracket & return spring as I will not need any assist with the diaphram type. All of the clutches I listed are with diaphram type pressure plates. But I will look for the suggestion in the chasis book that you spoke of, cageman.

HughesEngines only sells the McLeod Street Twin. I really respect the thinking over there. If I could afford it I would go there for everything. $825 for the (diaphram) pressure plate, twin clutch disc, and the flywheel in billet or aluminum. It must be a good unit if they sell it. Not sure why the fly wheel is part of the package... need to research this one a little more. http://www.hughesengines.com/partDet...p?partID=10049 Anyone care to comment here?

[Scremn]

McCleod makes a nice clutch set-up that I really liked.I own a 72 Demon
with a stout 340.I have tried a trio of clutches and McCleod is the one I
would go with.The Hays clutch is the Borg-Beck style and the clutch pedal
was pretty stout.It worked fairly well, But tough on the left leg.The one
I did not like at all was the Centerforce dual friction clutch.The clutch has
a break-in period of 500 miles before they want you to apply full power.I
do not want to wait that long! Even after the break-in period, there were
times when the motor would over-power the clutch and it would slip.In all
fairness though,I do not think I waited the full 500 miles.Who wants to wait
that long to cut loose?McCleod makes a sweet combo that I really like. It
is a Long Style pressure plate and a dual friction disc.The Long Style plate
has less pedal pressure and the disc has different materials for the plate
side and the flywheel side.I got mine from PAW.You can always contact
McCleod Industries for further info.This set-up rocks!

[Scremn]

McCleod makes a nice clutch set-up that I really liked.I own a 72 Demon
with a stout 340.I have tried a trio of clutches and McCleod is the one I
would go with.The Hays clutch is the Borg-Beck style and the clutch pedal
was pretty stout.It worked fairly well, But tough on the left leg.The one
I did not like at all was the Centerforce dual friction clutch.The clutch has
a break-in period of 500 miles before they want you to apply full power.I
do not want to wait that long! Even after the break-in period, there were
times when the motor would over-power the clutch and it would slip.In all
fairness though,I do not think I waited the full 500 miles.Who wants to wait
that long to cut loose?McCleod makes a sweet combo that I really like. It
is a Long Style pressure plate and a dual friction disc.The Long Style plate
has less pedal pressure and the disc has different materials for the plate
side and the flywheel side.I got mine from PAW.You can always contact
McCleod Industries for further info.This set-up rocks!

[dwc43]

[QUOTE=SSHAKERR]Ok, DWC43. You arent the first one to tell me centerforce DF are cheaply made. One local guy tells me they are nothing special materialwise, just some extra springs and weights. He said they suck. He likes Brute-Force. Said he side steps the clutch at 4000 RPM all the time. No problem. A local drag racer suggested a Ram clutch but he liked centerforce too. He said he knows they(Centerforce) grab hard because he sees kids put them in their 5.0 mustangs with a stock gearbox and the gearbox goes. Said its not a good clutch to put with a wimpy gearbox. Of course he said the 833 was up to the task. (thats why he used the 833 behind his chevy for many years) I have driven a 89 stang with a centerforce DF. It was a pleasure to flog. But its not as heavy as an E-body and didnt have the grunt of a big block mopar. I am still open to opinions and I hope more people will respond.

In regards to the borg & beck vs. diaphram. Ive been told a performance Borg/beck would be stiffer and harder to slip in street driving situations. My racing friend told me the diaphram type is more common in street/strip driving. However he recomended losing the over-center spring and fabricating a simple bracket & return spring as I will not need any assist with the diaphram type. All of the clutches I listed are with diaphram type pressure plates. But I will look for the suggestion in the chasis book that you spoke of, dwc43.

QUOTE]

There's a reason you have to remove the over center spring with the diphram clutches. They are not as strong and the clutch pedal can actually get trapped on the floor with this spring installed.It's just not strong enough to over come it. The Borg and Beck unit will not stick on the floor.

[SSHAKERR]

Do you mean to say its not normal to have to put you toes behind the clutch pedal and pull it up?

I think that is what burned up my clutch. I have the over-center spring installed and I believe there is a diaphram pressure plate in there. My free play wasnt adjusted properly either. I adjusted that but needed to pull out freeplay with my toes sometimes. Right now, In first and second, it's noticeable that it is slipping when you come off the peddle. With the peddle all the way up it might take an extra second to fully engage. Once its engaged, it never slips even if I romp on it in first. Not sure if this can be addressed with an adjustment, but since I dont even know what clutch is in there, I would rather use a HP set with the scattershield. I will still need a spring to pull out the free play if I go with another diaphram type and remove the over center spring.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by dwc43

There's a reason you have to remove the over center spring with the diphram clutches. They are not as strong and the clutch pedal can actually get trapped on the floor with this spring installed.It's just not strong enough to over come it. The Borg and Beck unit will not stick on the floor.

Once again you prove how little you know, the reason the overcenter spring needs to be removed sometimes is not because the clutch is weak, the the light pedal pressure is the result of applied physics and in no way implies that the clutch "won't hold".

Such claims are total nonsense, I've used Centerforce dual friction behind a Hemi and a built 440 and they don't slip.

[cageman]

LOL

Shaker, put a spring on there to pull it the rest of the way up. Maybe thats all you need.

[SSHAKERR]

Didnt realize Cenerforce DF was such a controversial item! John, did you adapt a return spring and take out the over-center spring?

Cage, It still slips for a second after I pull it all the way up. My friend explained it to me but I didnt really get it. Something getting closer when the clutch disc wears, and the throw out bearing spinning when it shouldnt be... I dont get it. If anyone wants to explain the function of each piece, in order starting with the fork, pressure plate, clutch disc, throw out bearing...and what is, and isnt spinning, maybe I will understand it once and for all. Its got to be more simple than an automatic!

[Cudadrag]

I just researched clutches for a high horse build (1000+) horse. For high end clutches it appears to come down to 2 real choices. Ram's 10" multidisk or Crowler's 11" multidisk. I was told by a sales rep from Centerforce that they don't have a Pro Stock style adjustable clutch for real high-end race motors. Not to say their dual friction is a bad street/strip clutch. Personally after nearly getting my foot shot off by an exploding diphram clutch (Which ended my Pontiac days) I would never use them again. The GTO clutch was not as good as a Centerforce. It was Pontiac's so called heavy duty from their factory. I have had better luck with the Borg and Beck style.

I vote Ram!

JMHO.

[charger_dan]

i used a hayes 11" borg and beck (2,750-lb.) behind my street 440. the clutch pedal was too stiff for my liking. switched to an 11" mcleod diaphragm (3,000-lb.), organic sprung hub disc, and billet steel flywheel (all mcleod) and was way happier. clutch engagement was both smoother and quicker, and the mcleod components were all top-notch. i removed the stock clutch pedal over-center spring, and just rigged up a simple lightweight return spring. very happy overall with its performance, and, barring high horsepower applications, would never go any other design pressure plate.

one other thing: regardless of which clutch you run, it's a good idea to adjust your clutch not up at the pedal, but by measuring the "air gap" down at the disc/flywheel with the clutch disengaged.

[perfmachst]

hello, Mcloed has B&B/long pressure plate. it has the ford long style fingers mounted in a B&B hat. it is the best and cost effective clutch. you can use a 200 series disc with it.it will bolt up to your stock flywheel. call Mcloed and George can set you up. he's a very knowledgeable on clutches. I have used this style for years in my 340 duster. the pedal pressure is easy and you can add counter weight to fingers for more lockup at higher RPM. just food for thought. plus you don't need to remove spring from dash.