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  #1  
Old 04-30-2006, 09:25 AM
Steelmuscle Steelmuscle is offline
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Default A-body PS to manual conversion

I'm concidering a swap from power steering to manual steering. I did this many years ago on a B-body. Is it possible to make the change without a donor steering column? If I recall correctly a manual column is longer.

My entire front suspension is new. Would the swap require a change in suspension/steering pieces? Anotherwords, would a donor manual box and pitman arm bolt to my center/drag link?

I hope to make this as simple as possible. The donor cars are getting hard to find around here. Does anyone have the answers or parts I need?

If successful I will have a remanufactured PS gearbox (firm feel) and pump for sale. Both are leak free and like new.

Thanks in advance!
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2006, 10:09 AM
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Biggrin

Firm Feel has the adapter you need for the swap without changing the column.All you need is the proper box with the proper pitman arm on it. Your taking a big step backwards though in going manual. What stage box do you have and how much?
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Old 04-30-2006, 08:04 PM
71dart666 71dart666 is offline
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I think that unless you got an all iron big block under the hood you wont regret going to a manual box. The manual boxs are aluminium and combined with loosing the power steering pump you will save a good chunk of weight off the front end of the car, id guess 30-35 lbs or so. Plus less parasitic drain off the engine and more room for headers and general clearance ect. Do it !
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  #4  
Old 04-30-2006, 08:27 PM
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cageman cageman is offline
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I have manual on my Valiant, piece of cake, now that is an abody though, pretty light weight, but my Coronet, it has power and it is too easy, no real feedback, I dont like that, That is what I hate about power.

Box, pitman arm, and column adapter, no problem, it is def easier to go from pwer to manual.
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2006, 08:29 PM
70AARCuda 70AARCuda is offline
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I converted my 73 340 Duster to manual steering last winter...and now converting my 71 Dart to manual steering. The Dart is going bracket racing.

On the Duster I just wanted to get rid of the pump and stuff....cleaner
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  #6  
Old 05-02-2006, 03:33 AM
George G. Leverette George G. Leverette is offline
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Why reduce turning ratio by 25% and increase effort signifiantly? This is a step backwards like swapping an electronic ignition for points. TTI and Schumacher ensures that their headers for small and big block cars are compatiable with power steering. The Firm Feel power steering units offer the best compromise for a factory power steering system, quick ratio, firm feel and good stability in all driving conditions, you have the best set-up suggest you keep it.
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  #7  
Old 05-02-2006, 07:54 AM
dgc333 dgc333 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George G. Leverette
Why reduce turning ratio by 25% and increase effort signifiantly? This is a step backwards like swapping an electronic ignition for points. TTI and Schumacher ensures that their headers for small and big block cars are compatiable with power steering. The Firm Feel power steering units offer the best compromise for a factory power steering system, quick ratio, firm feel and good stability in all driving conditions, you have the best set-up suggest you keep it.
Couldn't agree more. I am currently swapping the manual steering in my Barracuda for power. Can't imagine why anyone would want to slow down the steering and increase the effort on a street drive car to save a few pounds or free up a couple of horsepower.
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2006, 07:59 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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Why not remove 50 lbs from your cars nose? I have done this, and I'm happy I did. I went with the quicker 20:1 manual ratio; while at park you need some force to turn the tires with a BB, but works like a charm when the car moves. Have a manual steering even in the C-body now! Mopar power steering is pretty feel less, but the worst thing is, that when you try to turn it very quickly, it will not follow, gets very stiff just like the engine wouldn't be turning. I converted my A-body just changing the steering shaft, not the whole column. The adapter talked above, was used in some trucks at least in the 70's, and maybe it's possible to find it from one?
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  #9  
Old 05-02-2006, 01:28 PM
dgc333 dgc333 is offline
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I doubt there is a 50lb difference (more like 25lb) but in either case on a street car that is insignificant but the difference in steering ratio and steering effort is.

My goal is to make my Barracuda ride and handle like a modern car and you can't get there with 20:1 or 24:1 manual steering. Even a small block A-body is a handfull at slow speeds with 235/60 front tires and at speed making a quick transition maneuver is just not possible when you have to make two or more complete revolutions of the wheel. The Firm Feel box gets rid of the over boosted feeling of the orignal power steering so power steering becomes a positive in every way.
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2006, 01:42 PM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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The "quicker" manual ratio is 20:1, with power it's 16:1. Yes, factory power is too overpowered, that's what the Firm Feel boxes are for. I've never encountered the problem DartGT66 describes where turning too quickly makes the steering get stiff. But I do have 255s on the front, I can't imagine trying to muscle those around a road course without power.

But hey, Steelmuscle asked how to do it, and he already has a Firm Feel box. He must not feel the same way George, dgc333, and I do. That's what is so great about having choices.
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  #11  
Old 05-03-2006, 01:46 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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There is also 16:1 manual ratio available, but the 20:1 has been fine for me. I have also driven "firm feel", and in my opinion it's just as feel less as the factory unit, the only difference is, it feels "firm", like something dragging somewhere creating a situation where you have to use a little more effort to turn the wheel. And I would say 50 lbs is way closer to the weight difference of the huge iron steering box, the lines and the pump, compared to the small aluminum manual box. I have done that swap, and played with those parts, there is a significant difference. Power steering is meant for lazy, weak people!
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2006, 02:54 AM
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And if your lazy and weak, what are you doing here, as you probably should be buying a chevy, with power brakes too.

JK LOL
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2006, 04:45 AM
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Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by DartGT66
Power steering is meant for lazy, weak people!
If you feel that way, why do you think those atheletes that drive NASCAR cup,Bush, craftsman truck and on down run power steering for the last 20 something years. We starting running on our dirt track cars and picked up lap times too. It's easier to steer and is no where near 50lbs and if weights your only issue then get the aluminum pumps and boxes like we use. And they are fully adjustable for feel and ratio, but a firm feel box is all you need on the street.
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2006, 05:37 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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Well, if those Nascar ATHLETES need power steering to survive their four turns, then I guess there is no other option. You just can't live without one

Tried to find the weights for the parts, but no luck. Only found the shipping weight for the manual box, 17 lbs. Maybe someone has got the power steering pump & brackets & hoses, and the factory power steering box they could weigh, so there would be no need to guess.
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2006, 06:31 AM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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Consider that the NASCAR drivers have to make up to 800 turns per race, and power steering doesn't seem so unreasonable. I've driven at California Speedway, and it takes a good deal of force to haul those cars around. But roundy-round isn't really my thing anyway. My new favorite track has over 20 turns per lap, including 2 hairpins, and if you want to race me in a same-weight vehicle without power steering against my car with it, I'll give you odds based on the fatigue factor alone.
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  #16  
Old 05-03-2006, 06:43 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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I have never even seen an oval track, we don't have any in the whole country. And I believe there isn't many in the whole Europe, if any? A good power steering is propably an advantage, at least the most sophisticated cars use them, but a factory power steering against a quick ratio manual steering; manual steering for me, please, if the intention is to control the car!
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  #17  
Old 05-03-2006, 07:06 AM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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I will admit all other things equal, I also prefer the road feel of a manual unit. But all else is rarely equal. The conditions I usually face mean that after only a short period of time, fatigue with a manual would cause a loss of the fine sensitivity needed for ultimate control. The power unit doesn't have that effect. Now if my car were smaller and lighter, it would be a different story.

But isn't it great that we have a choice!
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  #18  
Old 05-03-2006, 09:47 AM
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Biggrin

No one has even thought to mention what hqappens when you get in over your head and have to correct your car. With a manual you wont be able to change directions as quickly as you can with a power unit. I've run dirt tracks where counter steering is done on every turn and I've run asphalt and road courses where corrections are sometimes needed as well when your running on the raged edge every lap and I'll take the power unit for that reason as well. Add fatigue into this scenario and you will really want that power unit as well.
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  #19  
Old 05-03-2006, 03:01 PM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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But not everyone runs at the ragged edge all the time and needs that little extra measure. Obviously Steelmuscle and DartGT66 don't face the same conditions we do. I'm not going to tell them what they want. Isn't it great that we all have a choice?
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2006, 02:26 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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Lazy, weak, and slow hands?
I'm only referring to the factory power steerings and the firm feel unit I have used; If I turn them very quickly, it feels like I'm pushing the fluid through the hoses and it becomes very stiff.
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2006, 02:50 AM
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What are you using for fluid. maybe that is why, I have noticed cars that have trans fluid in the power steering do that.

My old trucks, I hated manual steering, But my Valiant, I love it, to each there own.

DW, you cant use circle track for reference on every post, nobody cares. apples-oranges.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2006, 03:39 AM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DartGT66
Lazy, weak, and slow hands?
I hope you're just joking there. I may not be as fast as I was a few decades ago, but I can still bench press over 300 lbs, and I have manual steering in my '65 D200 with a 440 over the 12" wide front wheels, so it's not a question of not being able to steer a manual box. But I prefer the power unit in my situation, and not because I'm lazy.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2006, 03:50 AM
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cageman cageman is offline
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12 inch wide wheels, How do those Fit, I was thinkin 10's on my truck maybe, DW will like this though, 20 inchers Yeah. actually 20 in the back and 18 in the front
Pie plates are pretty cool!
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2006, 04:00 AM
TK TK is offline
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Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72Challenger
I hope you're just joking there. I may not be as fast as I was a few decades ago, but I can still bench press over 300 lbs, and I have manual steering in my '65 D200 with a 440 over the 12" wide front wheels, so it's not a question of not being able to steer a manual box. But I prefer the power unit in my situation, and not because I'm lazy.

You know, I love my old Dodge no power trucks, I never road raced them, so I just drove them like they were old trucks............ Only time I missed the power steering was backing up trailers.
I like the idea of a light car with no power, not only for the feel, but for the simplicity, one less belt, pump, and a couple hoses. Sign me up!
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  #25  
Old 05-04-2006, 04:02 AM
TK TK is offline
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Oh, yeah, and I ran my 71 D200 at talledega, and averaged 177MPH, with no power steering................
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  #26  
Old 05-04-2006, 05:17 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72Challenger
I hope you're just joking there. I may not be as fast as I was a few decades ago, but I can still bench press over 300 lbs,
Well, lets put it this way; we don't need a hydraulic press in our garage. The only reason I use tools turning bolts is, that with bare hands the corners of the bolts turn round so easy, if you loose your attention even just for a moment.

Just joking, actually, I have no idea of how much I bench press, don't care much about it, but I believe it's closer to 300 than zero Well over my own weight though.
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Old 05-04-2006, 06:04 AM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cageman
12 inch wide wheels, How do those Fit, I was thinkin 10's on my truck maybe, DW will like this though, 20 inchers Yeah. actually 20 in the back and 18 in the front
Pie plates are pretty cool!
Sorry, careless typing there. I meant 12" wide tires. I forget how wide the rims are, I bought them almost 4 years ago. 9 or 10? But they are 16.5" diameter, you know the rant - "Too heavy, can't accelerate, can't brake, throws off your steering geometry, not enough slip angle..." LOL!
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Old 05-04-2006, 06:08 AM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DartGT66
Well, lets put it this way; we don't need a hydraulic press in our garage. The only reason I use tools turning bolts is, that with bare hands the corners of the bolts turn round so easy, if you loose your attention even just for a moment.


Yeah, sure, whatever you say. Oh, and I needed to break up some concrete the other day. Didn't need a chisel, though. Just used my... oh, never mind!
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  #29  
Old 05-04-2006, 07:44 AM
dgc333 dgc333 is offline
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FWIW,

I weighed the power steering box (33lbs) and pump (7lbs) that I putting into my 68 Barracuda last night. Minus the 17lbs that was mentioned as the weight of the manual box gives a 23lb weight savings add a pound or two for hoses and fluid and it's right at 25lbs savings which is not significant on a road car.
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  #30  
Old 05-04-2006, 08:57 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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Thanks, way less than I expected. Think I'll have to do a couple of sets on teh bench press.
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