So, if you had .010 piston pop-up above deck, you would...

[dust]

Resolved, it was another Speedomotive screw up, they agreed to disassemble the shortblock and machine the pistons down at no cost to me.

My pistons on the right side of the engine pop up above the deck. Are they going to recess at all after the engine is running? See pictures below, I’m GUESSING .010 above deck???





SpeedOMotive built my 408 shortblock and it was supposed to be zero-decked for my Edelbrock heads. I'm having alot of problems with this shop...

[Kevin Garceau]

if just one side is above the deck...YOU GOT PROBLEMS!

[dust]

UPDATE:
I put a cylinder head on that side pictured, but I just measured the other side, drivers.

One piston is about .010 another is .008 and the rest are below that (my feeler gauge does not get any smaller).

[1973Swinger]

Wow, I would be pissed, something is not right at all with that engine, Id be chucking it through the shop's front window.

[dwc43]

You may have to get another block now. That's messed up. What is sounds like is that they did not put it in the machine properly aligned before they decked it if some are in the hole and some are out of the hole. Takes plenty of pictures and measurements and pic of the measurements and get witnesses. THen take the short block back to the shop and make them measure it. A pocket voice activated recorder comes in handy at this point as well/ Make them fix it if possible or make them replace the block and go to another shop. Take them to court with your proof if need be. I know it's not what you want to hear, but that thing is messed up and there's no way I'd drive it even for a daily driver.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by dst

UPDATE:
I put a cylinder head on that side pictured, but I just measured the other side, drivers.

One piston is about .010 another is .008 and the rest are below that (my feeler gauge does not get any smaller).

Are you saying that the piston height above/below the block differs that much on the same side of the block?

Either you have mismatched piston compression heights or someone did a horrible job of rebuilding the rods and got the lengths way different.

[Scatman 340]

That`s the kind of stuff I`ve been hearing about MP short blocks. Are you just finishing the assembly, or was it together and you were experiencing problems? I`m just trying to set you up for when you return it. Was it running before you pulled the heads I guess is what I`m trying to say.

Rock`

[1973Swinger]

Its a brand new build Scatman, I dont think its a MP shortblock, it was built by a machine shop, correct DST?

[dust]

This is my old block from a '77 Cordoba, I ran her in my Duster unmodified (except intake manifold/carb and headers) for years before taking her out, stripping her down and taking her to SpeedOMotive.

They also Bluprinted the engine

Blueprint w/Linehone(or 'bore'?) -- 500.00$

Just that alone is more than one of my paychecks...

[Madman Stephan]

You might have to cancel you Manga monthly magazine to hire a lawyer.

[maxwedge413]

measure each stroke to verify crank. if ok then they put it together with a bunch of rods that were poorly machined rods.

[dust]

Rods are new Eagle's...Chinese

Originally Posted by Madman Stephan

You might have to cancel you Manga monthly magazine to hire a lawyer.

heheh

[dust]

Originally Posted by John Kunkel

Are you saying that the piston height above/below the block differs that much on the same side of the block?

From my straight-edge and feeler gauge method, I'm going to by a dial caliper to try to get a more accurate measurment.

[pishta]

I would almost suspect rods. Chinese or not, they can be different lengths. If the block was cocked in the jig, then the pistons would show a pattern of declining heights. If the pistons were mismatched, then the compression height may be off, but I would first look at the rods. Easiest thing to fix too.

[TK]

Either I missed something........(have before), or you said the right side pokes out, and the left side doesn't?

Does it have new main caps, and linebore?

[LA360Dart]

hey dst;

Is that smaller of the two pic's the same? Also the smaller pic looks as if you can see the top of the First ring land. Did you put pistons on the con rods? Did you check to see if pistons were the same part number? Just a though...

Denny

[LA360Dart]

In the state of California you may not tape a conversation with out letting someone know. What you can do is is use it to make notes of the conversation but the tape is use less as evidence in court. Unless they agree to be taped ahead of time...

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by LA360Dart

In the state of California you may not tape a conversation with out letting someone know. What you can do is is use it to make notes of the conversation but the tape is use less as evidence in court. Unless they agree to be taped ahead of time...

Yeah, your right. I just looked at his post and I see you are both from the same state and I did not notice that at first. The tape thing is diffrent from state to state, but most laws state that as long as one party knows there is a tape it is legal and of course DST would know if he was one of the two doing it. I used that as an example of course.

Now what he could do is have someone video tape it from a public street or sidewalk. If you are on my property and tape me I can get you, but if your in the middle of the street you can tape me in my house. That's been one of the big debate laws conerning privacy. I don't agree with it, but most all states you can get away with it to some extent.

[Dick]

It is sad that the first thing jumped on is the possibility of deceit on the part of the builder. The machine work may be fine, but the rods could be off on center distance. That would be an issue with whoever furnished the rods. They need to be checked. The same goes for the pistons, pin location to piston top. Finally, if the previous checks do not reveal the problem, then crank throw is a last resort. If all three things are within spec, then the block is the culprit.

I would imagine that the machine shop people would be anxious to prove the value of their machined work and that they would be willing to inspect all the components to determine where the problem is. If they furnished everything, then they are responsible for the quality of the package. If the buyer furnished the rods or pistons, then the buyer will have to approach his supplier for replacements.

Threatening to sue and attempts to tape conversations will only make matters worse at this point.

[mgreen2994]

Who Put The Motor Together ? I Take It There Flat Top Pistons ? Check To Seen If You Have Two Or Four Pistons About The Hole, They Might Have The Piston On Upside Down

[frederick_76]

This is what I did not want to read about Speed-o-Motive... Ijust sent my 406 stroker kit to my builder, no word yet on any problems yet, but he may not have started on it yet. Let us know what you find out......

[dust]

I'm going to buy a dial indicator and try to take more accurate measurments. I'll post my measurments on all cylinder/pistons when I get them. I was using a straight edge and feeler gauge.

I hope Sears sells dial indicators.

Also, I guess I am leaning toward SOM machine work problems since I've had so many problems with SOM. Good Luck frederick_76.

[jelsr]

Just finished a 451 for my grandsons circle burner (Bomber-Hobby stock) Used Ross pistons, H-beam rods (imported), OEM crank, block has not been decked (stock dimensions) and had .003 variation in piston height. Supposed to be .017 down (Ross specs) measured .019 to .022. Not that bad considering the evils of mass production. I would think that a competent machine shop should be capable of obtaining the correct dimensions when they have components for 1 engine only to deal with at a time.

[LA360Dart]

dst

Depending on where you live, Harbor Freight sells a serviceable dial indicators that are reasonable with stands. I use one. dst message me if you can. I'm saddened to hear SoM is that poor they do have a good reputation in the SoCal area. They should care of you dst.


Denny

dwc43 he could tape the audio and use it to make notes as if he wrote down the notes after leaving but the tape would not be admissible in court. The video might work but the shop is in a industrial area and building front is brick and video taping might be very tough good thought if front is glass.

[party340]

I had the same problem with my 340, varied from .020 to .030 even on the same side. The variation was random, not increasing from front to back, so I assume its was not the decks. I used eagle h beam rods and KB pistons with a turned 340 crank. I put her together as is and I've been running the sh!+ out of her for 4 years with no problems. Cranking pressure vaies by about 10 lbs. As long as the highest piston doesent cause detonation or valve to piston clearance or piston to head clearance, it should't be a problem. It does suck to pay that much money for something and not be perfect.

[dust]

Originally Posted by party340

I had the same problem with my 340, varied from .020 to .030 even on the same side. The variation was random, not increasing from front to back, so I assume its was not the decks. I used eagle h beam rods and KB pistons with a turned 340 crank. I put her together as is and I've been running the sh!+ out of her for 4 years with no problems. Cranking pressure vaies by about 10 lbs. As long as the highest piston doesent cause detonation or valve to piston clearance or piston to head clearance, it should't be a problem. It does suck to pay that much money for something and not be perfect.

What heads are ya running? I heard that Edelbrock closed chamber heads need zero-deck.

[pishta]

Originally Posted by dst

What heads are ya running? I heard that Edelbrock closed chamber heads need zero-deck.

Nah, figure the head gasket volume and youll be close, use clay to figure and then add a few thou for expansion. Edelbrock 340 RPM's are clearanced for pop up pistons.

[party340]

I'm running ported 360 smog castings. I did put the heads on the bare block and grinded off any overhang of the chambers over the cylinder and equalized all of the chamber volumes. If the most you have is .010, with a .039 gasket leaves .029 piston to head clearance, tight but should be OK.

[Scatman 340]

B

Assuming that all were at .010. The old 340 pistons popped up out of the block about 10 feet didn`t they?

Rock`

[72Challenger]

I voted for the thicker gasket, because even though a custom gasket from Cometic will be a lot more expensive than a regular gasket, it's still cheaper than the the machine work of milling and rebalancing in choice A.

B is out since the 340 Eddy heads are machined .060" when the pistons of a 340 only have a deck height of -.018". Even without a head gasket you still end up with less quench that you get with the regular Eddys and a zero deck piston. What were they thinking? Plus your pistons are only out .010", so even with a Chrysler .020" head gasket, you'd have .070" clearance, which is too much to call it a quench chamber.

D will get you thrown in jail, and you'd lose your motor to boot!