Oil Additives??????

[Mutine Bullfrog]

Just about finished putting together my 383 HP engine (mostly stock only minor upgrades). I've been told that I should put an additive into the oil prior to starting the engine to help lube the cam bearings. Is there such an additive. If so what is it. Is it really needed?

[dgc333]

There has been a lot written lately about the current generations of motor oil having much much less zinc in it than 15 or more years ago. The zinc is important to an engine with a flat tappet cam in that it provides some cushing between the cam and lifters. The new oils have have less for emissions purposes and was not replaced with an alternative because virtually all engines now have roller cams.

The recommend oil seems to be one designed specifically for diesel engines such as Shell Rotella. GM also has an aditive that will replace the zinc but can't recall the name.

Go with the Shell Rotella or equivalent from your favorite company oil company for break in of the cam.

[Mutine Bullfrog]

Is that a one time additive or do I need to add it at every oil change?

[rumblefish360]

compcams.com has such an additive and they recomend it with every oil change. But.....if it adds life by compare is a yet to be seen thing by me.

[LA360Dart]

The EOS has part #1052367 it puts the zinc and phosphorus that the lifters need for break in protection... Most cam mfg's recommend something like this for break in then when first oil change you don't need to reapply...

[Scatman 340]

Man! You learn something every day. Here`s to one more wrinkle on my brain.

Rock`

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by Scatman 340

Man! You learn something every day. Here`s to one more wrinkle on my brain.

Rock`

Amen to that!

[pishta]

"Make sure you break in the cam and "cheap" chinese lifters (?) with a dose of STP oil treatment, newer motor oils dont have the proper blends (moly, zinc, lead, etc) to break in a cam. Look up "the oil guy" on google and check out some of the analysis of modern oils, youll want to go out and do a oil change tonight!"...

Guys, I posted this on Tuesday, how's that for hindsight!

[dust]

Originally Posted by pishta

Look up "the oil guy" on google and check out some of the analysis of modern oils, youll want to go out and do a oil change tonight!"...

bob is...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

So, how I see it is with flat tappet engine, you can use regular oil with EOS or diesel oil strait.

This also applies to motorcycles, I use diesel oil on my Kawasaki.

[pcb1]

Run like a scorched pig:
Lucas Oil additive, racing formula every oil change.

[Shatto]

Mutine Bullfrog,
Ever wonder why STP is no longer; "The Racers Edge?"

From the time it was new I began using Amsoil 0W-30 oil, filtered by an Amsoil By-Pass filter system, in my 98, 3.9 automatic, Dakota. The transmission uses Amsoil ATF.

I have never used any additives, yet, somehow, both are original and still running after 500,000 miles.

Why not go to www.amsoil.com and check out the information for yourself.

[72Challenger]

Shatto,

Your '98 engine has entirely different needs as far as lifter lubrication than a 30 or more year old engine, or even a new one that uses flat tappets. There has been quite a bit written recently about why freshly built engines using flat tappet cams have been failing - new oil compounds are a big reason why. Pure synthetic may be fine for your engine, but it is death during break-in for the 383 being discussed in this thread. Please take the time to research the issues involved before you recommend something that will destroy an engine. Lunati for example states that if you use synthetic oil during break-in, it will void the warranty on their camshaft. You need 5000 miles of break-in before they say you can use synthetic.

I started a thread on this exact subject a 4 years ago and it was a new idea at the time. However, it would seem that the facts have proven me right. There was an article in last month's Car Craft about this topic as well. While there have been other factors involved in the rash of camshaft failures lately, modern oils lacking the high levels of zinc previously used seemed to be taking a good share of the blame.

ALWAYS break in a flat tappet camshaft using conventional oil and an additive that is specifically intended for use with that cam. New oils, synthetic or otherwise, don't have this. Ignore this advice at your own risk!

edit: I had originally said 500 miles before using synthetic, it is actually 5,000.

[dust]

Originally Posted by 72Challenger

ALWAYS break in a flat tappet camshaft using conventional oil and an additive that is specifically intended for use with that cam. New oils, synthetic or otherwise, don't have this. Ignore this advice at your own risk!

Why not break it in with just diesel oil?

[72Challenger]

Originally Posted by dst

Why not break it in with just diesel oil?

Diesel oil is VERY high in detergents. Again from Lunati's recommendations:

"We have found that utilizing straight 30 weight, non-detergent motor oil works best for initial start up and cam break in. Switching to a multi-grade, premium quality oil for your climate conditions is acceptable after the first 500 miles of engine operation. DO NOT use synthetic or synthetic blend oils prior to the first 5000 miles of engine operation."

[Mutine Bullfrog]

OK. I'm going with a straight 30 weight plus the GM E.O.S. for the first 500 miles then switching to the diesel oil after that. staying away from the synthentics for now.

Thanks for all the input

[72Challenger]

Keep in mind that the Feds aren't done with their meddling yet. The good additives are already being reduced in diesel oil, and will be reduced further in the future. This is going to be an issue for those of us with flat tappets for some time to come.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by 72Challenger

Diesel oil is VERY high in detergents. Again from Lunati's recommendations:

"DO NOT use synthetic or synthetic blend oils prior to the first 5000 miles of engine operation."

I wonder if Lunati realizes that 5000 miles might be years in the future for some low use older cars.

I also wonder what they have to say about some cars (like the Viper) coming from the factory with synthetic oil.

[72Challenger]

Originally Posted by John Kunkel

I wonder if Lunati realizes that 5000 miles might be years in the future for some low use older cars.

I also wonder what they have to say about some cars (like the Viper) coming from the factory with synthetic oil.

They would say fine, these are recommendations for a flat tappet camshaft, not for a roller cam. Seem to have caught you napping, John. Never seen that happen before.

I know you are not one to skimp on the details. Just out of curiosity, what do you use for break-in lube in a new (flat tappet cam) build?

[dust]

Originally Posted by 72Challenger

Diesel oil is VERY high in detergents. Again from Lunati's recommendations:

"We have found that utilizing straight 30 weight, non-detergent motor oil works best for initial start up and cam break in....

Anyone know why? Possibly the detergents 'clean' the break in lube off?

[72Challenger]

There is such a thing as being TOO slippery. That's why the synthetics aren't recommended, and I would imagine that detergents in regular oil could perhaps cause the same problem.

Thing is, the lifters need to rotate during break-in. They rotate because of the way the surface of both the cam and lifter are ground on a very slight curve. Still, it requires some friction for this rotation to occur. If the oil is too slippery, it won't happen.

[mopar413]

Good thread guys,i will be installing a new lunati cam before long. I knew about the break in lube,but had not heard about the changes in the oil additives, d**n epa. Have they not screwed enough things up?