New Hydraulic Lifters

[Scatman 340]

Do I need to prime them or not before start-up? I`ve read both scenarios. What is the preferred method?

Thanks,
Rock`

[dwc43]

You can't prime a lifter. You can coat it with oil or cam break in fluid. You really should use the stuff that came with your cam to coat it with. If you take that lifter and soak it in oil and go pumping the plunger in the lifter and put it in your engine, you'll bend every valve in it when you crank it over. The lifter will be pumped up and wont be able to release all that oil inside of it and it will hold the valves off the seats. Seen it happen with my own eyes before.

[dust]

CompCams recommends soaking the lifters in oil.

I soaked mine for about a week while the machine shop fixed my shortblock.

[hotrod7043]

another Dwc wifes tale LOL.

[345Dart]

a little oil in the lifter bore, cam lube on the lifter face, install.
Pre-lube engine going through 720* will do the rest.

Roller lifters require a pre-soaked, hydraulic do/should not.

[rusty duster]

dwc is correct.Put them in dry and then prime engine.What I mean by dry is no oil inside the lifter,but coat the outside with assy lube.

[John Kunkel]

Allowing the lifters to fill during the engine pre-lubing process fits the definition of "priming before engine startup".

Much different than just letting them clatter on initial startup.

[rumblefish360]

Rhoads lifters says to "Prime the lifters before installation. To do this, submerge lifter in oil and depress the the top with a pushrod to fill the lifter up with oil before you install them in the engine."

Also, what John said.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

Rhoads lifters says to "Prime the lifters before installation. To do this, submerge lifter in oil and depress the the top with a pushrod to fill the lifter up with oil before you install them in the engine."

Also, what John said.

Rhoads lifter is designed to bleed the pressure off at lower rpm levels that's why they can be primed. You can't do that with a stock lifter cause it wont bleed off the pressure on start up.

[LA360Dart]

Hi All;

The priming of the oil system would fill the lifters with oil. What difference if you pump them in an oil container or by priming the engine? The lifter is still filled? If you adjusted the valve train properly should be no problem.

Denny

[rusty duster]

some lifters bleed down at low rpms,some lifters are designed to run at very little or no preload,If you have a lifter that is designed to run with a preload and you fill the lifter full of oil and the lifter won't bleed down; and then you add a tight piston to valve clearence YOU GOT TROUBLE!

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by LA360Dart

Hi All;

The priming of the oil system would fill the lifters with oil. What difference if you pump them in an oil container or by priming the engine? The lifter is still filled? If you adjusted the valve train properly should be no problem.

Denny

Hey Denny. Priming the oil system will not fill the lifters. The pressure is to low. The main idea of priming the oil system before intail start up of the new engine/cam change is to insure that theres oil where it needs to be.
Keep reading.

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by dwc43

Rhoads lifter is designed to bleed the pressure off at lower rpm levels that's why they can be primed. You can't do that with a stock lifter cause it wont bleed off the pressure on start up.

Now heres the pop quiz. Think before you answer.

How long does it take a lifter (Stock) to bleed down if preped like the Rhoads lifter I described above.

DW, Your more right than wrong, kind of, read on for a point of view and what work may be going on. This is how I see. Look at it like this.
If you pre fill up the lifter (Stock) and istall them, then bolt down the valve train, install the intake etc.... on down the line quickly, the oil may indeed still have the lifter pumped up.

How fast can you bolt a top end up. I'd say preety fast even if you have not done it before. But theres also other issues on the engine that need to be addressed.
If it were simply just a change out of lifters, your dead on that there could be a problem. I have not done just a lifter swap useing stock lifters. Rhoads yes, stock no.

Also, once you bolt down the rockers and shaft assembly, the pushrods are pressing down on the lifters forcing oil out. Lifters now under pressure. Or at least most of them. (Ones on the base circle have less presure. But some none the less. They should be depressed about .050 right?)

LOL@ me, I don't need to work fast due to time restrictions of a track condition or time limit or to just simply "Get back in the race." I got all day or when ever. So crossing this road again is really not likely going to happen. (Again), (Chuckling)

Originally Posted by rustyduster

If you have a lifter that is designed to run with a preload and you fill the lifter full of oil and the lifter won't bleed down; and then you add a tight piston to valve clearence YOU GOT TROUBLE!

Not only piston to valve clearance, but just that the valves could be left off there seat. So it may not even start. LOL
I guess if you were to do just a lifter swap and quick, that problem is very real.

The above is thinking out loud and seeing something I never really gave thought to.
I wish to make this very clear,
I do not pre-load my stock lifters.
I haven't seen a need to. The clatter just goes away in a min. or so.

Scatman 340, re-read my last line. Your answer IMO would be no. Do not fill up / prime the lifters.
Oil them down with a dab of moly or = on the underside for new cams. You good to go.

[Dick]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

Now heres the pop quiz. Think before you answer..........................................

A true thinking man's response laid out in an easy to understand
analogy. Good Job!

It is always interesting to read stories of "must do because", when often times the real reason is not clearly defined, or is just a result of "mechanic's lore".

Reminds me of the story of "Great grandma's turkey dinner" which was passed on from generation to generation. The recipe called for a 14 lb turkey, regardless of how many people were expected for dinner. This recipe was used by 3 generations of women, who got it from their mother.

One day, a great granddaughter asked why the turkey was always 14 lbs. Her mom didn't know, so she asked her grandmother. She didn't know, so the great granddaughter went to the rest home to visit her very elderly great grandmother. She posed the question of why the turkey had to be 14 lbs, no matter what. Great grandmother's response was simple. "That was the biggest that would fit in my roaster".

[dust]

Official CompCams recommendations:

(I put red arrows next to areas related to topic.)

Click here for First page.

Click here for Second page

[Scatman 340]

Good Stuff! Thanks. How could I go wrong.

Rock`

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

Hey Denny. Priming the oil system will not fill the lifters. The pressure is to low.

I disagree, if you're turning the oil pump with a drill, etc. the oil pressure will be the same as if the engine were idling. I normally see 60 psi while turning the pump with a 500 rpm drill.

Turning the crank slowly while the system is pressurized will allow each lifter to fill to the correct level as is reaches the base circle of the cam.

When installed in the motor, "filled" isn't the same as it would be on the bench. A lifter filled on the bench will have the disc pushed up against the retainer ring and could prevent the valves from closing but a lifter filled while installed in the motor will only push the disc up to the pushrod and no further.

[LA360Dart]

Hi All;

I've always used adjustable valve train, along with "0" lash on my hydraulic lifters. The standard wire retainer rings were replaced with real snap rings that fit the grove in the lifter body. The piston in the lifter body is at the very top of travel so the lifter, full of oil makes no difference...

Denny

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by LA360Dart

Hi All;

I've always used adjustable valve train, along with "0" lash on my hydraulic lifters. The standard wire retainer rings were replaced with real snap rings that fit the grove in the lifter body. The piston in the lifter body is at the very top of travel so the lifter, full of oil makes no difference...

Denny

Better read that article from Comp Cams that DST posted. IT says diffrent. Just like I said.

[B1owner]

Whatever you decide to do with the lifters, do as stated earlier and coat ONLY the bottom or foot of the lifter with assembly lube, and use regular oil on the sides. This is important. Assembly lube on the outer diameter of the lifter will hinder it from spinning. I wouldnt bother priming them, doesnt really make a difference, cause about 2 or 3 seconds after start up they will pump up....but occassionally one or two will take a minute to quiten up.

[LA360Dart]

dwc43 the lifter is at full travel against the snap ring so how can it travel further. The lifter is at the snap ring not .020" to .050" down from the snap ring. Once running then I adjust the valves further if needed. Most of the time it's not needed for a long time.

Denny

[turbododge]

I think the odds of ever having a problem with filling the lifters are extremely small, unless you have something else very wrong. If you have .060 preload (and we all run less than that, I would think) at the lifter, that is only .090 on a 1.5 ratio and .096 on a 1.6 ratio rocker, at the valve. Everybody I know runs at least .100+ clearance to the piston on the intake and .120+ on the exhaust. At cranking, and startup speeds, and with the full spring pressure as the valves open, the lifter will bleed the tiny bit of oil it takes to get to the proper height very quickly, long before the valves will heat up enough to cause problems, and even after heating, most of the clearance is left, as it is for rpm related issues primarily.

Is it necessary to fill the lifters, absolutely not, but I highly doubt you would ever have a problem. It was the standard procedure to fill lifters for many years, and I personally have never heard of any problem that wasn't caused by taking the lifter solid because of other issues. I think this is one of those issues that someone had an issue (real or imagined) and it has grown to a size much larger than it really is.

[Scatman 340]

I forgot where I read the two different methods. I searched through all my books last night and found the articles. The Mopar engines book says do not prime the lifters as stated in this thread earlier. The valves may not seat and engine would be hard to start if it started at all due to lack of cranking pressure. Just be prepared for all the racket from the lifters when it fired.

On the other hand, I bought a book "How to Rebuild Small Block Mopars". They say to "Prime the lifters by forcing oil into the small hole on the side of the lifter..." I think this is where I became "Corn-fused".

Rock`

[turbododge]

The valves not all the way closed issue Scatman talks about is probably the most likely problem you would have by priming, but it would not do any damage to the engine or parts, just make it longer starting the first time.

I do think that the cam manufacturers like the idea of having the lifters empty at first start, as it gives them at least a little while of running on the new cam at reduced load, and with all the breakin failures we have seen recently, any little help is good.

[Tarrbabe]

Yes you can pre-fill lifters. I have done it with a syringe from the doctors office. But when the pressure is put on it from the valve springs, they will deflate some. The idea is to get them close so wear doesn't become excessive and that valve adjustment is simple.
With the valve fully extended with oil, it will bleed back with valve pressure. But some will remain and depending on which style rockers you have the loss of oil will vary. Does it have to be done? NO.
Most people prime their engines like we have been told with a drill.
You also can leave the spark plugs out and crank the engine over with the starter until you have oil pressure and then start adjusting. The idea of pre-filling the lifters came from the people that that had the ball / fulcrum set-up and would crank them down too far. Then when the engine would start it would run like total crap because some of the valves were open. Pre-inflating the lifters is a short-cut to getting the valve adjustments quicker.

Just thinking out loud .

[rusty duster]

I have had lifters that would not bleed down with the valves left open for days.How can you adjust a pumped up lifter?

[rumblefish360]

You don't.

[turbododge]

If they don't bleed down sitting under spring pressure, they won't compensate while running, either, I would think, and you could wind up not closing valves all the way after you heated up.

[hotrod7043]

All is i know is it worked.

[bigiron]

Originally Posted by rusty duster

I have had lifters that would not bleed down with the valves left open for days.How can you adjust a pumped up lifter?

Days??? WOW... Days??? were they valve springs or bed springs???