M1 Single Plane Vs. Victor on 440

[mhenesian]

We're running a Performer RPM manifold with the MP 509 cam on a 9:1 compression 440. The Performer RPM feels a little flat at the top end. Anybody run any tests comparing the Mopar M1 single plane versus the Victor? Can the Victor work if we limit our RPM to 6000, just for durability reasons? We run either the 11" TurboAction Hemi Converter or 10" TurboAction race converter. What about the old TM-7?

Thanks,
Stephen Henesian

[Kevin Garceau]

If its laying flat on the top end its NOT from the Victor...or the M1 for that reason. They will flow better up top than any of the older intakes.

Sounds like a fuel issue or valve issue

Although with that smaller older profile cam its probably done at 6,000 rpms. Hence not noticing a gain. 509 is an OK cam in my opinion but many better out there with similar lift....

Im not a big fan of the MP cams. Unless something has changed drastically in them the last few years.

[mhenesian]

Thanks Kevin for respondng,

With a 1" open spacer, the RPM feels stronger up top, but we'll have to test this at the track (my dad and I). Rather than swap the RPM for our older Torker II, we'll consider buying a Victor or maybe a used TM-7. We went with the Mopar 509 since we already have the Street Hemi springs, and don't want to mess with the heads right now,

Thanks,
Stephen H.

[Kevin Garceau]

TM7 is OK..but the victor and M1 would be better. Ther performer RPM for mopar is single or dual plane? Sorry for sounding ignorant, dont have much knowledge of them.

Adding spacer shouldnt pick up too much. Unless there is a problem somewhere.

If you replace to one of the other ones mentioned and still see little or no gain =
I honestly think the cam is what is holding you back. I understand your reasoning for going with it. Not a big issue. But last I knew that cam was designed in the early 70s.... I think some things have been learned since.

I ran one, ran a 590 too.

It should pull some past it, just not going to get a big gain, it will start leveling off.

What carb? Fuel line? Float bowl level? Ignition?....ahhh.... Ignition - might want to look there. Sorry I ddint think of it sooner.

[rumblefish360]

The Performer RPM is a hi-rise dual plane.
On this intake, gains can be realized with an open spacer without there being a problem elsewhere. A change to a single plane may not be the answer in some combos. Sometimes the dual plane works great until a certain point where the single plane takes over, but, it's that weird point in a combo where you could use the extra plenum on the dual plane that helps and the single plane dosen't do so well on the lower RPM scale to make the change worth the effort in a particular combo or car.
I hold back any answers on this implied or not. This is just what I have noticed on small blocks. Not big blocks.
Kevin is in a better seat to answer this one.

[mhenesian]

Thanks Kevin and Rumble for your comments/advice.

Anyone else have comments or better yet any back to back tests to report ?

From the Mopar Muscle Magazine (as reported on www.bigblockdart.com) the peak HP numbers recorded on a stout dyno engine were:

Mopar Muscle July 2002

weiand action plus 597@6300
factory iron (70-71) 575@6200
eddy ch4b 607@6400
performer rpm 610@6100
street dominator 636@6200
torker 605@5500
torker2 627@6300
eddy tm7 618@6200
m1 629@6100
team g 597@6300
victor 637@6400

engine specs:

.060 over 440
12.5:1
ported 915's/w 2.25's and 1.81's
comp roller 260/258@.050, .650 lift/w 1.6:1 rockers
950 race demon
2" tti's

Looks like the old Holley Street Dominator was equal to the new Victor. The single plane M1 and Torker II were not far behind. Performer RPM was not much better than the old CH4B. Weiand Team G and Action plus were/are poor choices. I don't have the article in front of me, but I think it was reported that the original Torker made the most torque, since it's HP peak was close to the cross-over point at 5250 rpm. Original Torker 440 might be the best street manifold (to smoke those turbo charged/super charged Mustangs/Ricers). Should be very responsive to the thottle.

Of course a 9:1 440 with the Mopar 509 or roughly similar Comp or Lunati cam might respond differently with smaller carb (750/850 vs. 950), smaller headers (1 3/4 or 1 7/8 vs. 2"), and much less duration (248 vs. 260) and lift (.510 vs .650), who knows ?

Thanks,
Mark H.

[rumblefish360]

Well, if you change the cam, alter the compresion ratio, swap headers around add a bigger carb, all things will change and the the manifolds will tell a different story in a big way.
This write up should be taken with a grain of salt.
The intakes should be compared to what they were designed for and operating rpm ranges. IMO, putting a dual plane intake on a engine with a cam best suited for a single isn't such a great comparo IMO. I know it's just a shoot out/demo on how well they work for that combo. But I think the cam is abit stout for what is typicaly thought of as a replacement/upgrade type manifold.

[451Mopar]

I have no comparison, but the M1 single plane works good on my 451 stroker. My peak Hp is only at 6,100 rpm, but I have chassis dynoed it to 7,000 and the power din't drop off much even with my small 251 duration @ 0.050" cam. I am using a 1" open spacer and a Holley 4150 HP carb rated at 1,000 cfm.

[kamstra]

I have a similar combo and I have had both a torker and TM7. The TM7 performed better than the torker and most likely much better than the RPM... for the given operating range of that camshaft. I am sure the M1 would also perform well.
I agree with Rumblefish. That comparison is difficult to compare given the engine is completely different.

[MYchallenger]

Torker and steel stock manifolds are for planting flowers or for your moterhome... I use the M1, works well, full range of rpm from about 2700 up. No2 works well for me in low compresion moter with increase of 2 seconds in qtr mile. Building high compresion engine with the Victor. We will see.

[rusty duster]

I don't know what heads your running,but if they are stock they won't do much over 5600 maybe 5800 rpm.

[Slingshot383]

The Performer RPM is a good intake and will see and improvement by doing the same trick that class racers have done for years. Remove the center divider until it is 5/8" above the upper floor and knife edge it and blend it to the fore and aft walls. This will increase mid-range and top end. 440's like air, so a 750 is the smallest carb I would run, an 850 or 950 HP would be a better choice.

[Cudadrag]

I replaced my M1 with a Victor 383 (B-block version of the Victor) It picked up alittle on the big end. Just under 2 MPH and about .03 on 1/4 time. This was with ported 452 heads at 500 horse. This was about what was expected. The reason for the swap to better match to the new B1 heads that are now deployed. I have not tryed the M1 with an upgraded aluminum head. But I'm sure there would be a small fall off going back to the M1. But I have no doubt a M1 would out perform the RPM.