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  #1  
Old 07-24-2006, 05:25 PM
Satty71 Satty71 is offline
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Default to crate or not to crate????????

Ok this one has been beating me up for a while. My Satty's power plant is getting old and I plan to keep it because its original; however, my question to the masses is which is more economical when making a warm, totally streetable motor that will bolt to a 904, a crate or do it yourself? I already have the new headers, march pulley system and Jocobs pro street box. I guess my question is if not going for an all out tire shredding monster in the small block catagory would it be more economical/less time consuming to buy a crate or do it yourself? I am limited on time (this Iraqi war this is really cutting into me and my Mopar's quality time) and my current facilities are sub standard. If the two are somewhat equal I think I would opt for the crate and put the current engine on the stand for a while. The next question is what is a decent crate meeting the above criteria of warm street, small block and bolt up to a 904. I am looking for an intake to oil pan model to compair. Thanks fellas, coments please.
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2006, 05:58 PM
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pishta pishta is offline
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Wow, with the poor build quality of some of the MP crates lately, I would go with a local builder that can be behind you in the support dept. I have Speed-o-motive out here in the So Cal area that builds some nice motors as well as some other guys that I know would be close enough to help out if the thing gave out. Of course you could get a crate and totally go through it with a mic and be sure that everything is A-OK, but that requires time and a gasket kit and maybe a warranty exclusion. Your call.
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2006, 08:47 PM
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Biggrin

SInce any crate would kill the A904 in a heart beat, I'd build my own since you will need less HP than the crate engines make. You can build it cheaper than a crate engine and get exactly what you want too. If you want a real performer, you'll need to find you an A727 to take the abuse. TCI will have what you need for a tranny swap. www.tciauto.com . Find a good local machine shop, get all your machine shop work done, then recheck what they did, then build it in one night, drop it in the next. Done it too many times.
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Old 07-24-2006, 09:07 PM
demon guy demon guy is offline
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Default to crate or not to crate.

i have a 71 demon w/ 360/380 hp. i run a 904 behind it. with mufflers and street tires i have went 7.95 in the 1/8th and 12.73 in the 1/4. i drive it back and forth to the track (20 miles one way) and love my crate motor.
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2006, 09:15 PM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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Welcome aboard Demon guy!

Satty 71; IMO I would just rebuild the engine you have. All you would need is a set of pistons to fit the overbore (If needed) bearings, a gasket set (Cheap from MoPar) new cam (Like a replacement to what you allready have) & lifters and chain. Or if you opt for a full kit like from Comp Cams or Crane etc... to do it in one shot.
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  #6  
Old 07-24-2006, 09:32 PM
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BS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwc43
.......................build it in one night, drop it in the next. Done it too many times.
And he could have done it quicker if he didn't keep tripping over his red cape.
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
And he could have done it quicker if he didn't keep tripping over his red cape.
I did not know he wore one. Maybe the Caliber fairy can zap it away for him. You think??
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2006, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pishta
Wow, with the poor build quality of some of the MP crates lately, I would go with a local builder that can be behind you in the support dept. I have Speed-o-motive out here in the So Cal area that builds some nice motors as well as some other guys that I know would be close enough to help out if the thing gave out. Of course you could get a crate and totally go through it with a mic and be sure that everything is A-OK, but that requires time and a gasket kit and maybe a warranty exclusion. Your call.
I want to bring up the point that the local builder may be of lower quality than MP. Check with many people before choosing a local builder.

Pishta reminded me of this since I used to work with Speed-O-Motive and had negative experiences with them...

If I were in your shoes, I would probably get a MP crate and make sure to install/break it in within 90 days.

Cummings makes the MP crate motors, right?
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2006, 03:36 AM
George G. Leverette George G. Leverette is offline
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The crate engines come from different vendors and can be anything from a used 360 short block to an all new 360 engine ready to bolt on accessories and run. The 300HP 360 is an ideal street motor and provides an excellent compromise between performance and gas mileage which should be a consideration. The used 360 short blocks and Hemi's got a lotta negative comments (even my 360 short block) the 360|380 HP engines have gotten good comments from the local drivers.
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2006, 05:35 AM
Satty71 Satty71 is offline
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Would a 300 hp motor take out my 904? This thing doesn't see any strip time, and it has the deep pan for extra cooling!
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  #11  
Old 07-25-2006, 05:46 AM
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Biggrin

Mine has before. I've even killed them with pretty much stock 318's. They don't hold up very well without major mods. The A727 is pretty much bullet proof. If you want a good performance tranny you can get a TCI unit from Summit Racing or get it straight from TCI at www.tciauto.com You wont go wrong with a TCI unit or a stock A727 either.
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  #12  
Old 07-25-2006, 06:18 AM
Kevin Garceau Kevin Garceau is offline
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A quality 904 would hold up behind it just fine. A 727 will as well....

why go with TCI when you can go with the original founder of that company in BTE, as in Bill Taylor Enterprises....

TCI makes fine parts as do SEVERAL others.....
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2006, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwc43
I did not know he wore one. Maybe the Caliber fairy can zap it away for him. You think??
I was referring to you since you said you could do it....................
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  #14  
Old 07-25-2006, 08:38 AM
hotrod7043 hotrod7043 is offline
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ANY cOMPETENT AFTERMARKET TRANS CO CAN SUPPLY A WEL PREPPED 904 THAT WILL LIVE SINCE YOU BE GETTING ACRATE MOTOR THE kICKDOWN LINKAGE MUST BE SETUP CORRECTLY!!!!!! OR GOOD BYE TRANS.a904 PROPERLY PREPPARED WIIL LIVE PLENTY OF COOLER HELPS , A904 IS NOTHING BUT A MINI 727. SEND IT TO DYNAMIC PERFORMANCE TRANSMISSION IN BRANFORD CT THEY DYNO EVERY ONE AND THEY ARE GOOD PEOPLE TO DO BUISNEES WITH.
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  #15  
Old 07-25-2006, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dust
I want to bring up the point that the local builder may be of lower quality than MP. Check with many people before choosing a local builder.

Pishta reminded me of this since I used to work with Speed-O-Motive and had negative experiences with them...

If I were in your shoes, I would probably get a MP crate and make sure to install/break it in within 90 days.

Cummings makes the MP crate motors, right?
There have been some horror stories about MP crates. Not all are made by Cummins in Canada. A recent poster said his was made in Mexico. Not necessarily a bad thing, but the sources of MP crates vary. Some crates have had quality problems as far as bolts not being torqued properly or improper bearing clearances. Others have been ready to eat, right out of the box.

The warranty on crate motors is short. 90 days from sale date I believe. It would be best to not let a crate motor lay around on the garage floor waiting for installation because the meter is running. This can be a problem for those that like to have all the parts and materials on hand so they can proceed at a comfortable pace.
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  #16  
Old 07-25-2006, 09:12 AM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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I can not see a 904 being eated by a 300 HP engine. I guess it could happen. Even more so if the tranny is not adjusted right.
I have left 904's bone stock while camming and head milling my way through experimenting on engines, Add gear changes to that as well.
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  #17  
Old 07-25-2006, 09:29 AM
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Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
I was referring to you since you said you could do it....................
Anyone can do it really. If you have everything laying there and everything that came from the machine shop has been double checked it's no big deal to assemble on in an afternoon and have it ready for install the next day. Done a bunch of them that way. I also keep a panel in my tool box that's sealed in plastic to keep it clean that has all the torque specs and such. Good to have handy if you buiild a bunch of engines. I even have a couple drawers in the tool box specifically for engine assembly tools so I don't hunt for anything. I try to keep it organized. Wait till I get the new shop finished, it will have it's own engine build area with white tile floors and walls so you can see better and keep it clean. I've been held up by our wonderful county on this project though. Might be while. Had to get the lawyer after them.
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  #18  
Old 07-25-2006, 03:16 PM
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909duster 909duster is offline
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Default crates

try this place for crates. I spoke to them at SEMA good guys very knowledgalbe on Mopars.

http://www.blueprintengines.com/popu...tions&pcsci=10

nothing like a rebuilt 408 starting at 3599.00 with a 2year/24,000 mile warranty
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  #19  
Old 07-25-2006, 03:29 PM
DTorreto DTorreto is offline
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Default My two cents

Well the thing is that crate motors cost a lot of money. You know what you're getting with one(yes they can have problems), but it would be cheaper to get a guy to build your motor for you. That way you can have some fun picking out the parts that your want i.e. compression ratio, cam lift, timing set, heads, rockers, etc. You can match everything together and come up with a powerful, but practical combination.
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2006, 03:31 PM
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Default Here Is Another Link

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/122/...te-Engines.htm
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  #21  
Old 07-26-2006, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 909duster
try this place for crates. I spoke to them at SEMA good guys very knowledgalbe on Mopars.

http://www.blueprintengines.com/popu...tions&pcsci=10

nothing like a rebuilt 408 starting at 3599.00 with a 2year/24,000 mile warranty
Can ya post a direct link to the 3599$ engine, I don't see it.
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  #22  
Old 07-26-2006, 03:25 AM
George G. Leverette George G. Leverette is offline
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Those appear to be list prices and much more than the actual purchase price. look in the Mopar magazines for a dealer that advertises 25% off any Mopar part and contact them. The shipping cost vs local taxes should be considered when makin the purchase. Consider these items when re-building a 40 year old engine with worn lifter bores, oiling system with problems, cyc heads not designed for todays fuel and other factors associated with age and metal fatigue. The crate engines are all new (the short blocks by cummins are used 360s) with swirl port heads and a better oiling system.
The 904 tranny was used in the dippys and dipomats for Police and Taxi work behind the 318s with 360 heads and 4bbl carbs and lived. PRO TRANS recommend worked 904s over the 727 because they are faster in the drag cars some producing over 600+ HP.
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  #23  
Old 07-26-2006, 05:43 AM
Satty71 Satty71 is offline
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George you said what was creeping around in the back of my head. There is always that one thing you miss when you do an engine. Or that one thing the machine shop was like, awe man don't worry about that, ha!!!! All new would be awesome I just want another 100K as solid and reliable as the last 100K. And don't forget it has to haul but good at least. Let me throw this out and i am done. The new Hemi's, the more they make the more there are for future generations in the bone yards!!! How much work would it take to mod one of these babies over to bolt up in a B Body? I saw Mancini sells the motors I don't know if the sell the mounting hardware seperate. For 5K instead of buying a questionable motor you might be able to buy a complete EFI drive train from a collision repair shop!!!!!
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