Do you have a Centerforce?

[70Barracuda]

I had been running the Centerforce 3 years, maybe six or seven times to the track. Always worked great. I thought the PP was going bad. Find out after taking it apart, the plate in the bell, for the arm that works the TO bearing was cracked, when it got hot it started bending, clutch would not work well.
I thought the PP was going bad.
Bought a Hays street/strip "good for 500 hp" P.O.S.! Spun the first hard holeshot..

How much life does the Centerforce have in it? Should I put it back in?

Thanks

[moparmussel]

i am planing on changeing my clutch,my tranny guy said center force was the best!any comments and advice will be much appreciated on what clutch to use on built 440,thanks!

[dwc43]

Centerforce is the worst and that's even by Mopar Performance. THey do not hold as tight as a Borg and Beck unit which the type that came stock in all Mopars and it's what they still recomend. Look for a Ram or Mc Leod clutch in the Borg and Beck style and you wont go wrong.

[it's all dodge]

I like Borg and Beck, I have a solid hub for oval track, seen one too many cluthes come apart and ruin a good night! Do I need a Ram or Mc Leod PP, or will a stock reman hold, on the dirt? It's 10.5"

[70Barracuda]

DWC,
I know how you feel about clutches. The Hays I used is a Borg and Beck style. Its a pice of crap! Hays is owned by MR Gasket, who owns Mcleod I believe. The clutch engages way too low on the pedal. I could not power shift with it at all. The centerforce always worked flawlesly. I'm coming to understand I have over 450 hp easy.
Don at FBO says the Centerforce is a POS too. But it works well.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by dwc43

Centerforce is the worst and that's even by Mopar Performance.

Got a reliable source for that claim?

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by it's all dodge

I like Borg and Beck, I have a solid hub for oval track, seen one too many cluthes come apart and ruin a good night! Do I need a Ram or Mc Leod PP, or will a stock reman hold, on the dirt? It's 10.5"

The solid hub on a race car is always a good idea. Your not really worried about it jerking hard on take off anyway, are you? I've never run a stock reman. I've run the one Mopar Performance sells, but not anymore. There are lighter units out there and weight means everything when it comes to getting it off the corner. I'd go with a racing clutch and look for the weight listed and make sure it's a Borg and Beck unit. I run the 10.5 as well. My rules wont let me run anything smaller or I would.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by 70Barracuda

DWC,
I know how you feel about clutches. The Hays I used is a Borg and Beck style. Its a pice of crap! Hays is owned by MR Gasket, who owns Mcleod I believe. The clutch engages way too low on the pedal. I could not power shift with it at all. The centerforce always worked flawlesly. I'm coming to understand I have over 450 hp easy.
Don at FBO says the Centerforce is a POS too. But it works well.

Never used a HAyes, so I can't say about them. And I agree with Don at FBO on the centerforce issue too. It's just the facts of the matter. Not worth loosing a leg or car over using cheap clutches and PP's.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by John Kunkel

Got a reliable source for that claim?

As stated many times over The Mopar Performance Engine and Chassis Manual. And it's been in them ever since the mid '80's when I bought the first book when it still had Direct Connection on the cover.

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by dwc43

As stated many times over The Mopar Performance Engine and Chassis Manual. And it's been in them ever since the mid '80's when I bought the first book when it still had Direct Connection on the cover.

Where at? What page?

[70Barracuda]

That book came out before Centerforce was ever though of. Cheap parts? Whats cheap about them DWC? I think you dont like them and dont have a good reason why. Tell us all why they are bad. Not just that they are. Why? Tell me your peersonal experience with them.

I have a scatter shield. How am I going to get hurt? You and Don are the only people who have said negative things about them. I know he's never had one... LOL!

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by dwc43

As stated many times over The Mopar Performance Engine and Chassis Manual. And it's been in them ever since the mid '80's when I bought the first book when it still had Direct Connection on the cover.

Well, maybe you ought to get up to date (yea, right ); the latest version of the MP Chassis Manual (P5007160) makes no mention of diaphram clutches and damn sure doesn't mention CenterForce by name as you claimed in your first reply to this thread. In fact, if the book cover still had the Direct Connection cover the book likely predates CenterForce so how could the book mention them by name?

In fact, the only things the manual recommends against are 11" clutches in general and metallic disc materials.

If you have any up to date MP material that says otherwise please state the exact publication.

I might add that what MP advises against is routinely ignored by many because those who make the recommendations are often biased in their opinions just like message board "experts" and have been proven to be erroneous be actual trial. Diaphram clutches are routinely used behind 1000 foot pound torque diesels and they don't slip.

[rumblefish360]

LOL, busted once again??????????

[cageman]

I am no expert, but I do own both type clutches and hands down my Centerforce is my favorite clutch. I have a BB type in three of my vehicles, and I hate them, I have no clue what my 95 ram has, but that thing will slip if I am hard on it, but I also cant complain as I have almost 200 thousand miles on that unit.
I vote put the centerforce back in, if it looks good, use it.

[it's all dodge]

My rules had said your clutch/flywheel/press. plate gotta weigh x amount of weight, and that's when I bought the solid hub (from Mc Leod), but now, the rules just say mini clutch is legal, they combined hobby and superstock. I know the mini is best, but I guess since I already have the clutch, I could get the aluminum press plate and alum flywheel, or the lightweight steel one, or machine the heck out of a stock one, HOW FAR CAN YOU GO WITH THAT? MIN. WEIGHT? Heck, for that matter, doesn't that mean a person could run auto without the convertor, just the valve, I've seen that go fast! More $$$$ I'm not worried about messeng up my clutch on take off, but loading on the trailer don't wanna ride it. it's a go or no-go, not much in between. Sure, it says nothing NOW in the rules, but they make a rule if you go too fast. I'll probably get a b&b from Mc Leod, I hear the benifit of the diapram press. plate is less pedal pressure, the only experience I have with that was on a 89 Nissan truck a friend has, it had alot of miles, drove the hell outa it, and we pulled it out in pieces

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by 70Barracuda

That book came out before Centerforce was ever though of. !

THe DC book did, but the latest books did not.

!

Cheap parts? Whats cheap about them DWC? I think you dont like them and dont have a good reason why. Tell us all why they are bad. !

You think wrong, and I have no problem telling you why. THEy don't hold up for starters and any clutch that does not hold up is a danger to the driver and others in the area in my opinion. I've seen one explode and it takes a car apart real quick like. Thought one was going to come loose in my car one night, but got lucky and got it off the track. Lets see, before somone idiot asks, broke springs and cracks were seen through out the pp and disc. Never changed anything but the clutch set up so you aint going to blame the car on this one.


!

I have a scatter shield. How am I going to get hurt? !

Did not know you had one. Good for you. I find most people scrimp on safety equipment, even in pro racing. Seems they rather spend there money on the latest speed part instead. Not a good idea at all.


!

You and Don are the only people who have said negative things about them. I know he's never had one... LOL!

And like our other friend always likes to say, where's you proof?

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by John Kunkel

Well, maybe you ought to get up to date (yea, right ); CenterForce by name as you claimed in your first reply to this thread. In fact, if the book cover still had the Direct Connection cover the book likely predates CenterForce so how could the book mention them by name?!

You really need to learn how to read. I never ever stated it had the centerforce name in it. IT's the TYPE of clutch that the centerforce is made. And I am very up to date, but thanks just the same.


!

I might add that what MP advises against is routinely ignored by many !

Yeah, and that's pretty sad too. It could save a life or some money if people did not ignore such info from the people that designed the cars they drive to start with. I am sure they are much smarter than you, or you would have been up there designing the thing for Mopar.

!

Diaphram clutches are routinely used behind 1000 foot pound torque diesels and they don't slip.

Never driven a truck have you? I did for year, and will never, repeat NEVER drive a truck for money again. THey do slip, and if you know how to drive, you don't use a clutch except to stop. And, you don't do 2,3,4,5000 or whqat ever swide steps at the drag strip with one either. You simply ease off with one just like any 4 banger you see on the street. Not a lot of strain put on one since you never hit the pedal again after take off.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by it's all dodge

My rules had said your clutch/flywheel/press. plate gotta weigh x amount of weight, and that's when I bought the solid hub (from Mc Leod), but now, the rules just say mini clutch is legal, they combined hobby and superstock. I know the mini is best, but I guess since I already have the clutch, I could get the aluminum press plate and alum flywheel, or the lightweight steel one, or machine the heck out of a stock one, HOW FAR CAN YOU GO WITH THAT? MIN. WEIGHT? Heck, for that matter, doesn't that mean a person could run auto without the convertor, just the valve, I've seen that go fast! More $$$$ I'm not worried about messeng up my clutch on take off, but loading on the trailer don't wanna ride it. it's a go or no-go, not much in between. Sure, it says nothing NOW in the rules, but they make a rule if you go too fast. I'll probably get a b&b from Mc Leod, I hear the benifit of the diapram press. plate is less pedal pressure, the only experience I have with that was on a 89 Nissan truck a friend has, it had alot of miles, drove the hell outa it, and we pulled it out in pieces

Yeah the diaphrams just don't hold up. Mopar had an 18lb flywheel at one time. Wonder if it's still available. Check the price, you might want to use the mini clutch. It will really come off the corner with that one. I know some run auto's with the hub and flywheels, but there's the major cost, and weight. Still need fluid and a cooler too. I'd get a winch too if your worried about teearing up the clutch. THey are getting priced pretty decent for a 5000 lb pull these days. I'm looking to get a new one myself pretty soon.

We tried to get around a rule one time. Rule said you only had to have a converter. So Freddy cut one up and gutted it and welded a tube in it. It would only hold abouot a thimble full of fluid in it, so it had this hollow clank to it. Worked good too. Tore it down one night and called it illegal, but by the rules it was not. They changed the rules for the next weekend and it said "Auto's must have a working converter." We won again and they tore us down thinking we had the converter in there again. Wrong, had a 3 spd. From then on that car had an auto and a 3 spd shifter in the floor and the clutch pedal was always in it too. They never knew what was in it. The 3spd stayed in it though and there money was taken ... lol.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by rumblefish360

LOL, busted once again??????????

Not. Go read the book.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by dwc43

You really need to learn how to read. I never ever stated it had the centerforce name in it. IT's the TYPE of clutch that the centerforce is made.

Well, let's look at your first reply (#3) in this thread and I quote: "Centerforce is the worst and that's even by Mopar Performance." How else could one read that statement? You clearly state that MP considers Centerforce the "worst".
If that's not what you meant maybe you need to learn how write.

And I am very up to date, but thanks just the same.

If you're quoting from any literature with Direct Connection on the cover you're not up to date.

Yeah, and that's pretty sad too. It could save a life or some money if people did not ignore such info from the people that designed the cars they drive to start with. I am sure they are much smarter than you, or you would have been up there designing the thing for Mopar

You mean the same cars that routinely get recalled by the factory because the designers and engineers made mistakes?

If you have followed Mopar's recommendations for very long you'll find that they change direction quite often. I have reams of Mopar literature and in one book they'll tell you to do something and in another they'll tell you definitely to not do that.

When the real world experiences differ with the recommendations of the manufacturer I'll go with experience and so will most others.

Never driven a truck have you? I did for year, and will never, repeat NEVER drive a truck for money again. THey do slip, and if you know how to drive, you don't use a clutch except to stop. And, you don't do 2,3,4,5000 or whqat ever swide steps at the drag strip with one either. You simply ease off with one just like any 4 banger you see on the street. Not a lot of strain put on one since you never hit the pedal again after take off.

Thanks for the lesson in truck driving but I fail to see your point (if there is one). I've got more than a few miles in a Ford LTL9000 with a 400 hp Cummins NTC14 hooked to a 10-speed Roadranger and, yes, clutches slip when they're worn out, overloaded or overheated but so what? I did a lot of off-road where you had to intentionally slip the clutch to keep pace with heavy equipment and when I hit the road heavily loaded after a session of that the clutch still hooked up quite well even when skipping gears.

Not one single word that you have blathered in these diaphram clutch threads has any real meaning. Your supposed experience differs from others and your technical knowledge of the subject is nonexistent.

[moparmussel]

when all the pushing and shoving is done,what clutch is prefered for street,light track use?

[70Barracuda]

Originally Posted by moparmussel

when all the pushing and shoving is done,what clutch is prefered for street,light track use?

Centerforce!!
No matter what DWC says, they are good. I put my drag radials down to 16 psi. launched hard, power shifted through all gears and it still works well.
Im putting it back in.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by moparmussel

when all the pushing and shoving is done,what clutch is prefered for street,light track use?

Any good Borg and Beck type clutch. Ram and McLeod makes good choices.

[TK]

Centerforce!

As for diaphram clutches slipping in big trucks...........

Last truck I drove, was a 99 T800, with a 15.8L 3406E, was 550HP, then re-programmed to 600HP when I got my new four axle pup. It had a 18 speed, (Do you know what that is dwc, and how it works?) and a diaphram clutch. The 600HP made 1950 ft pounds ot torque, btw, never had it slip, notta once, not even pulling a grade, downshifting from 8th over, down to 2nd direct, using the clutch to soften the shock...................
Big truck clutches slip my ass..................

[cageman]

I hate my B and B type clutch in my Valaint, I drive it almost every day, and maybe this winter I am pulling the clutch out and putting a centerforce p plate in, as I like how my truck works with it. My other truck will get one someday too, as I hate that clutch also, and it too is a b and b type.

[John Kunkel]

Originally Posted by dodgetruckboy

Centerforce!

As for diaphram clutches slipping in big trucks...........


Big truck clutches slip my ass..................

According to dwc, all of the Wal-Mart shelves are empty because their trucks couldn't make deliveries because of slipping clutches.

Just more in a long line of B.S.

[it's all dodge]

Think I'll stay away from the mini clutch, I know they are fast, but since i already have the solid hub, and lots of tracks wont let me use the mini, atleast in a hobby stock, just so happens my local track lets you get away with alot of stuff in hobby stock, but I'm not so sure they wont change a bunch of rules, with their new promoter, I'm prob. best to just mill a flywheel or pay the money for the 18lbs one, if it's even available, most tracks wont let me use aluminum flywheel, and they cost a small fortune anyway

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by it's all dodge

Think I'll stay away from the mini clutch, I know they are fast, but since i already have the solid hub, and lots of tracks wont let me use the mini, atleast in a hobby stock, just so happens my local track lets you get away with alot of stuff in hobby stock, but I'm not so sure they wont change a bunch of rules, with their new promoter, I'm prob. best to just mill a flywheel or pay the money for the 18lbs one, if it's even available, most tracks wont let me use aluminum flywheel, and they cost a small fortune anyway

That's a pretty good idea especially if you plan on running at more than one track too. Not many places checks the cars though unless they put up the money to protest you unless if you run NASCAR like I do. THen you get checked everytime you turn around.

Aluminum flywheel P3690469 11 lbs.
Steel P4876047 18.5 lbs.
Stock P4529142 30.0 lbs.

[Bob7z7]

Sounds to me like its mostly prefrence. Both sides of the argument could do with a little more detailed information about what specifically about each type they like or don't like and how it affects the feel for the driver rather than the "yes it is!" "No it isn't!" stuff. Having not been around all that long, I've actually never owned a manual, but a four speed conversion might be in my future and I'd be more interested to hear about how each type reacts to the drivers interaction with the car rather than just insisting one or the other is going to blow up and kill them.

[it's all dodge]

Yeah, we used to run figure eight at Colorado National Speedway, north of Denver, Nascar run-they would scale the car (all of them) before race, then like the top 5 or so, sometimes even not just top 5 if you ran REALLY good, and they had the typical stuff they looked at, see if you have the proper carb, then they would do other stuff, check compression, C.I.D.,you never knew what's next, that track had a big bump every time you got back onto the oval track, so they made the ride height 6 1/2 inches, that's not fun, atleast with the spindles we were using, they would not work at that height, had to get mid 70s b bodys spindles to raise the car up. But it was crazy fast on the few nights before we raised it up, ride height about 3 1/2 or 4, btw, we ran flowmasters, 2 1/4, with just 340 manifolds, everyone else ran headers