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#1
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402 or .....
Just found this forum while researching a crate motor (looks like a great site). I have a 73 340 duster with a 4 speed. The motor is getting tired (20 years since last rebuild & I couldn't outrun a 5.0L last weekend ) and its time for something new. So i figure I will go with a keisler 5 speed swap and maybe a 402 crate motor from ma-mopar. However, a friend was recomending a rebuild on the 340. The problem is it is already bored 60 over and I'm worried about wall thickness. What do you think? The 5 speed and crate motor should be around 9K so I want to be sure. Also, what type of piston is in the crate motors? i know its 9 to 1 but would the pistons take a 75-100 shot of nitrous? any info would be greatly appreciated.
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#2
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A new create 402 and 5 speed sound SUPER great! There pistons are Fed-Mougal Hyper-U's and can take a max off 100 HP N02 shot safely, no doubt.
Get the timing retard set up! Hyper-U pistons will crack under poor timing fast! |
#3
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WARNING: Do a web search on the Keisler five speed for mopars. Ive read a TON- i mean a TON of material on unhappy customers. Read- hack job.
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#4
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http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...ue#Post2606952 Here's an intersring read...
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#5
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I am just finishing up a 360/395/Keisler swap in my 65 Dart. There were plenty of problems with what I got from Keisler, but they did bend over backwards to help me solve the problems. Problems included a pilot bushing that fit neither the crankshaft or the input shaft, bearing retainer for a mechanical clutch linkage setup, although I had previously purchased a hydraulic clutch setup from them, and a shift lever (round style) with 5/16" holes when the tranny shift stub holes are 3/8". I had to bend the lever approx. 23 degrees to get it to clear my bench seat (1st, 4th, rev. gear). But you know, when you build a hotrod, you must expect some problems. My TTI headers are great, but their collector transition piece did not clear Keisler's crossmember bracket. So Keisler and TTI are not communicating. The fix was simple and cheap. Too bad a great product like TTI headers suffers from a lack of communication.
If you do this swap, you'd better have some big tires on the back. Ken A. |
#6
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B1, I got this....
Quote:
OH HEY! I found this at least; http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...ue#Post3753528 |
#7
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The 340 block is junk at 4.100 and 20 years!
Their is now a 426 ci. and 440 ci. small block available. SMILE Cheers AARRACER |
#8
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Who has the 440 kit?
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#9
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See Moparts Connection
This is in the new MP BOOK
Rumor has it that these are built at the Cummins plant in Michigan? 440 SUPER COMMANDO CRATE ENGINE — 540 HORSEPOWER (EST.), 550 FT.-LBS. TORQUE (EST.) Big block power and cubic inches in a small block package! Mopar’s new 440 Super Commando small block stroker crate engine gives you over 500 horsepower on pump gas, and offers the compact size of a small block. Specifications: Bore: 4.180" Stroke: 4.000" Compression Ratio: 10.2:1 (Est.) Block: New 340 Siamese Block with 4-Bolt Mains Cylinder Heads: Aluminum Intake Manifold: Mopar M1 Single Plane Camshaft: Hydraulic High-Performance – 251ş/257ş Duration @ .050", .603" Lift Oil Pan: 8-Quart Center Sump Street/Strip Oil Pan Crankshaft: Forged 4340 Pistons: Forged Valves: 2.055"/1.600" Stainless Connecting Rods: Forged 6.123" Rocker Arm: Aluminum Roller w/ 1.6:1 Ratio Note: Shown with available carburetor and air cleaner assembly. pn 5153523 440 Super Commando Crate Engine — 540 Horsepower TBA |
#10
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Are those R3 blocks?
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#11
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Or you could build up a j/y 360 with (relatively) inexpensive stroker kits (e.g Hughes) providing you've got access to a good engine/machine shop - shouldn't be a problem in your neighborhood.
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#12
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A friend has an assembled 402 from a '67 318. It checked thicker than the 340's he had. He is selling it as he bought a 340 at the nats and wants to build a 426 with the Ohio crankshaft stroker crank.
Is it feasable to import in to Canada? It's in the SB ads on Moparts right now. Hotroddave40 is his name. |
#13
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aaracer,
any idea on the price for that 440 super commander crate engine? thanks, Kevin |
#14
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never mind...found it.
~$12,000 |
#15
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Shoot, that's 4 times what I bought my '70 Duster for!
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#16
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tl, I don't know how much of the $9000 you mentioned is going toward the Keisler 5-speed, but I suspect it's a good chunk of it, and I assume you're aware of the serious x-member and floorpan surgery needed for your A-body in order to do this upgrade. You should be able to source a stroker short-block on the aftermarket for $2-2500 and use your existing 340 heads, intake, and exhaust assuming they are serviceable. But if $$ aren't an issue, why not go for the big inch crate motor?
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#17
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Quote:
MP quality! |
#18
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Right On
Right on Rug
The 408 short blocks go for about $2500 here, and I also would build my own, but sadly some folks don't know how to keep their local machine shops in line with their personal projects (got to get the whip out lol) . But when you add up the parts prices it would be a close call (need a good discounting parts friend). Again a engine built with personal attention to every individual detail will out perform and outlast any crate product! See thread - problems with 408 plus pics-. Cheers AARRACER |
#19
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rug, and aarracer, I concur - I wasn't necessarily referring to Mopar crates, rather a crate motor from a reputable shop, of which there seems to be a pretty good choice these days. Ray Barton, Hughes, Muscle Motors, come to mind right away. That said, there's no doubt that having an engine done locally under your very own oversight is the best option providing your town has the shops to do it.
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#20
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Crapomotive
don't go to speed-o-motive see thread "trouble with 408 plus pics"
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#21
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Build your own stroker short block and reuse your 340 heads, etc.
Why not keep the four speed and go with a gear vendors over/under drive tailhousing? 8 speeds is better than five and requires far less modifying to the undercarriage. I always liked the idea of getting highway ratios out of the 30% overdrive with 4.10 gears. If you want to go fast, push the button. If you want to go on a road trip or drive at lower RPM's... push the button. Beats the living snot out of a Keisler hack job and the price is right, Bob. |
#22
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Aren't those Gear Vendors things like $2000? I suppose one would make your car a lot quicker though.
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#23
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The Gearvendors are about that much but they apparently will bolt on with a minimum of surgery. Worth considering as an alternate. I agree that your .060 over block is pretty well toast, but 360 cores are a dime a dozen, or if you really need to be authentic there are new 340's available from Mopar. But a stroker ain't authentic anyway, right?
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#24
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Yeah, buddy. Snag a 360 short block and stroke it. The Gear Vendors unit is about $2G, but they handle all kinds of power and torque as well as give you an overdrive/underdrive ratio that is worth the effort and you can keep your four speed in front of it. I'm going with one in my Charger, no matter what transmission I use. $2G is nothing when compared to the price tag of a Keisler.
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#25
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Just overdrive
I blieve the Gearvendors overdrive unit as named ONLY has the overdrive ratio capability (something like 0.78:1 over, ie 3.55:1 = 2.77:1). There is not a lower ratio, lower than your current low gear.
1st - 1st high, 2nd - 2nd high, 3rd - 3rd high etc. Also, no surgery required. Can split gears electronically like a Roadranger . I believe. see gearvendors.com cheers AARRACER |
#26
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Just thought of another option - if it's only the overdrive function you want what about using a later Chrysler 4-speed o/d version of your existing tranny? Late 70 early 80's trucks had them I believe
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#27
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I think they call it an overdrive/ underdrive because some people use it as an underdrive by lowering their rear gear ratio, but you are right in that it only does one function. That's why it's called an overdrive/ underdrive and not an overdrive + underdrive.
Chrysler did have a synchronized five speed overdrive available for the small block V8 trucks through the 80's that works. It would be very cheap to do, but would probably need stronger synchros, etc, to hold up behind anything past 350hp. I know that A-1 makes performance parts for the rwd 5speed chrysler transmissions. I just prefer the gear vendors setup. |
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