Well this is the price they gave me on my rebuild

[1968cuda]

$5851 for removal/installation/rebuild of my 318 engine.

Im adding a 4 barrel carb, intake and a mild cam to the engine but other than that, the rest of it will be pretty much stock. Is this too much for a rebuild plus mods? Also, what is the best power combo for the carb/intake/cam to freshen up my 318. Im not trying to race it, just get some nasty bottom/mid range power, enough to wake the guy up next to me at a light. Any help is appreciated.

Tim in VA

[MoPaul]

buy a cherry picker, pull it yourself, buy a 360 crate motor.
i had about 6k in my 340, so i can't say the cost is real high. but if all you want is bottom end torque and a nice driveability, i think the crate motor will give more for less.
just my opinion, the best of luck to you with however you fly.

[Kingofthehill]

IMO thats a lot unless they are supplying some $1000 carb in the cost....

go buy a cherry picker or rent or borrow... pull it yourself.. and re-install yourself... you'll save a bundle!!!! not to mention when its out, the car will be at your house and you can clean the engine bay, maybe touch it up or re-loom some wires cause they will have your motor for about a month...

i would also suggest a crate motor insted a rebuild...

my best suggestion is to join up a car club (mopar or general) and in doing so there will be plenty of people willing to help you pull/reinstall if you dont feel you have the knowledge to do it yourself...

or if money is no issue, go ahead and have it done... its not the worst price ive ever heard.. but i would of assumed you would be haing some port work done for that price..

GOodluck

JOe

[1968cuda]

Well, I thought of that but then again, my uncle(a mechanic for about 15 years now) said that the only problem behind that plan is the trans, and rear end. I also want to try and stick with the original engine as well, but I might run into problems if I get a high end crate engine because my tranny and rear are original, and havent been touched. I figure building my 318 up just a bit wont hurt em, but throwing in something like a 300/390 hp monster crate will throw those suckers out real quick. And the last thing I need at the moment is a busted trans/rear. Hell I already had to pull a loan out for this engine. Anyhow, any thoughts?

Tim in VA

[Kingofthehill]

try to work some headwork into that price... even with a cam, the heads will hold you back...

so in other words, your not gonna feel that cam all too much..

JOe

[1968cuda]

And, just on a side note, they already have the engine out of the car and disassembled, and in the hot tank. The biggest charge they seemed to have had was 850 for getting the engine out, and 850 to put it back in, which seems a bit on the rediculous side if you ask me. From what I gather, they have about 3800+ in labor and only about 2000 in parts...which again I think is a little outrageous. I've got about 4200 to throw at them now, but before I do that, I want to make sure I'm getting my moneys worth. So far alot of people in my area have recommended them. They claim that it'll run like clockwork, and they guarentee their work(for at least a year or more as long as its stock). I really appreciate the help here guys, I just dont want to get shafted and end up with something I could have paid a hell of alot less for.

Tim in VA

[1968cuda]

What type of headwork would you recommend? One thing I wanted was hardened valve seats put in, but they said the 1968 318 head was too thin for that, and I risk hitting the water jacket. Thanks again for the help.

Tim

[Kingofthehill]

there is something to say about a reputable shop that people recommend and is local (assuming they are local here).... if they stand by their work, and you trust the people that recommend them, and you can afford it, go for it..

there is something really nice about having them pull and re-install the engine... if there are any leaks, things break, surrounding parts fail... it can be brought back to them and they are responsable...

when i had my motor rebuilt, i assembled a lot of the surrounding parts (Intake, oil plan, ignition) and i pulled and reinstalled it myself.. and sure enough... i had an oil leak from the oil pan... so i get to fix it insted of taking it back and say "hey, its leaking"...

like i said.. from my experiance, its not a rediculous price but its not GREAT either... but if they are reputable and well recommended there is a price to pay for that..

Goodluck

JOe

[Kingofthehill]

also, in this price for a rebuild, what are they including????

pistons, rings, crank, rods? average or high quality gaskets???? any ARP hardware?... valvejob???

are you rebuilding because it broke or because its tired?

JOe

[cageman]

I would visit every day to make sure they do what they quote. I dont trust anybody these days. tell them you want to see the parts new and that you want the wrappers and boxes they came in, mark them first, you do this, they wont screw you.
850 to take it out, sheesh, Im to cheap. Oh wait, i only work on my stuff, nevermind. LOL
8 3/4 that should be fine, if thats what you have.

[1968cuda]

Well, if I can I'll post the quote sheet they gave me. It seems like they are using all new parts, except they claimed they where going to find a new crankshaft "core" to grind down, but I'm thinking it's best to just get a new one. The reason I'm rebuilding this engine is because it started knocking on me, and from what they have said, my crankshaft was toast, due to age and a poor installation of a recent air intake gasket(they sanded the heads and got shit into the the engine as far as they could tell). All in all the engine is 38 years old and hasnt been touched, so it was due for a rebuild sometime soon. Anyhow, the quote they gave me included a new intake/carb/cam combo, a engine kit, and other new parts. They also were going to magflux the block and check the heads, as well as any other tests that needed to be done. From what I can tell the kit they got for the engine was a federal mongal kit, which I've been told is pretty basic, and not that bad. Opinions here???? Thanks again for the help.

Tim in VA

[DusterBill]

I had my 318 rebuilt about two years ago. I paid about $6k, but that included TTI headers and exhaust, dyno break in and test, replaceing the torsion bars and steering box, but I suppled the torsion bars and steering box.

Be sure to verify that any part they want to replace needs to be replaced. Why do you need a new carb would be a question I would ask. You should have a forged crank, so that should be rebuildable. I'm not quite as skeptical as cageman. I try to find someone I trust, and then keep tabs on them. trust but verify.

[custom880]

Well 800 to take an engine out and 800 to put it back in is way to much money. You are looking at maybe 4-5 hours tops for removal and another 4-5 for reinstall. So they are basically charging you 160.00 per hour for shop labor. No way. In all reality to take a 318 out is maybe a 2 hour job and that includes draining the fluids. To reinstall maybe 4 hours. Total 6 possibly 7 hours of labor. Shop rate of 50 per hour (even thats high) 350.00 maximum. So I think you are getting the shaft with the labor charges. The total bill of 5800.00 is not outrageous if they use all new parts including a carb. To be honest you would probably be much better off finding a decent junkyard engine and doing a frshen up yourself with the help of your uncle. Junkyard 318 maybe 300.00. parts for a refresh 800-1000.00. Machine work maybe 1000.00. Big difference.

[1968cuda]

Well again, it comes down to the originality of the engine. It would be nice to just to a junk yard engine, but I want to keep the original engine and trans in the car. I'll try and talk with them on the prices of labor. They stated that their hourly labor charge was about 73 an hour, which is cheap for northern virginia(most charge 80+ up this way). I may be reading the ticket wrong, and it may be just 850 to pull and replace the engine, which I hope is the case, since I'd have the car out by the end of the month. As far as I can tell, they are using all new parts, but if the quote they gave me wasnt for all new parts, Im going to have to sit down and talk with them. All in all I've been talking around with others, and they said that 5800 isnt bad, but I really need to go down the checklist to make sure everything is what I need before throwing cash at these guys. Again, they seem to have about 2k in parts but almost 4k in labor, which is absolute bullshit. The guy even said they based it off a book, and if the guy takes 3 hours to do it, they still charge 8 hours for the work....what the hell kinda stuff is that?

[Chuzz]

I gotta agree with custom 880. That's a lot of dough for removal and installation. Heck, before I became disabled, I pulled a 318 out of an 85 Ram 2500 4x4 and put the guy another one in for five hundred bucks. I was working alone and it only took me about four hours to remove the old one. Of course, I had to have a little help putting the replacement in, but it only took me and my brother about 3 hours. After he helped me get it in, I hooked everything back up and had her going the next day. They must have four or five guys working on it at the same time.

[TK]

I charge 350-500 R+R.
For that price, it better be spin balanced, and have the heads built correctly.

[ehostler]

You should have waited to do this work. Then you could have gone to a couple of the CPOC shows and talked to the guys there. Between all of them, they only recommend about 2 or 3 shops for engine work. I know that none of the shops are in your area. I'm pretty sure that one was in Dale City and another was in Woodbridge. The other is near Richmond.

You could have bought a cherry picker for less than $850 and when you were done, you could have sold it for more than half of what you paid for it.

They really don't sound like a shop that I would trust. Telling you that you needed a new crank, based on a visual inspection of the intake...

OF course, now I have to ask... Why did you ask for comments, after you had already taken it to the shop and have them start the work? It's a little late at that point, isn't it?

[cageman]

Flat rate, thats how it is.
I wouldnt argue with them till its done, or else they will cut corners and youll get chrged full for nothing really, just because you were mad at the price.
I see it all the time, people get the bill, take the car there, then go to the coffee shop and talk to all the worlds smartest people like us right now, and they all have a brother who did the same thing for 1/4 the price, then the guy storms out of the coffee shop and makes a scene, and the people doing the work charge more and do less work, just to get even.
I would say politly ask for an explaination of charges, and be nice about it. It is a leson learned and like a college education, it isn t a free lesson, you have to pay.
Im sure it will be fine. They are good at telling people what htey need to make more money or charge for it, it might have only needed a polish on the crank. them engine guys are all that way.
I disasemble, ask questions then, then stamp my initials in the parts, then take them to the buolders. To many horror stories I have heard.
Oh your block was cracked, we had one though, your crank was wore, we had that too, now we need a core for both, or you can pay so much. Your head was bad, it need s this and yours was bad.
One time we disa sembled 10 400 chev motors and took them to an engine builder in Iowa. He said 6 of them were cracked. we were out 2400 dollars we thought we were getting. Of course we will never know, as we didnt hot tank them and we were long gone, but man what a waste of time. Its hard to say if they were cracked or not, but at 400 a pop, they had the chance to take advantage of us. We shouldve gotten a hotel, and stayed the night, then the next day take our stamped cracked blocks home. Thats the only way Ill ever do it again. We lost alot of money there.

[Steve Barracuda]

Remember that is just an estimate , it could cost more and probably does not include sales tax , haz-mat , oil , etc. Personally I don't think its to far outa line for the work being done . As for $50 an hour or less shops , good luck with that , My shop (heavy equipment) charges $98 an hour.

[Wes213]

If it has either a 727 auto trans (hump on side of trans pan) or 4 speed, and the 8 3/4 rear (pumpkin pulls out from front), you have the same basic drivetrain as they used with the 340 package and it will handle lots of power. If you have the 904 auto trans (no hump on pan) and a 8 1/4 rear (sheet metal differential cover that bolts on from the back side of the car), you'll have a good chance of tearing one or both of them up even with the minor changes you're planning on the 318. I bought a new 73 charger 318, added an intake, 600cfm small 4bbl (vac secondaries) and headers - toasted the 904 auto transmission at 14K and the 8 1/4 rear at 35K - mostly from those quick stoplight takeoffs. If you have the lighter drivetrain, consider rebuilding it as is and take it easy at the lights. If you have the heavier one, consider a lower hp range 360 crate motor (ESPECIALLY if you have the heavier drivetrain). If you rebuild the 318, want decent low end and save on gas mileage, 4bbl intake and smaller vacumn secondary carb (600-650 for the 318), something like a stock 340 cam (around 270/275 duration, 440-460 lift) and harden the valve seats to survive with unleaded gas (your old seats probably have sunken) and consider an upgrade to the medium size 1.88/1.60 valves (for better flow to handle the 4bbl). (your old seats probably have sunken). You could do that with a stock set of 74 or later 360 4bbl heads, but you may need shaving to keep compression same, newer 92 and up "magnum" engines are different; check junkyards and ebay. If you use 360 heads, you could use a 340/360 intake (even stock 68-70 cast iron to save $), if you stay with 318 heads, you'll need a 318 4bbl intake to match to the smaller ports on the head. If you go with the crate 360, you'll have a brand new motor which should bolt in with no problems (they're the same basic block as you have, same trans pattern, etc), and be happier in the long run because Mopar figured out all of the best combination of parts. With the 318 mods, you're depending on your shop to do more than simple rebuilds and be sharp on what works well together.

[michaelmopar]

i built a junkyard motor got a low milage roller 318 and pulled the cam lifters pushrods and put back in flat tappet set up new weind intake and a edel 600 had the 302 heads milled a little and a valve job put in new oil pump and all else was clean with the flat top pistons i am at nearly 9.5:1 all this for a cost of 1100.00 and then 400.00 R&R labor. so 1500.00 total so 5800.00 heck i can dog the hell out of this blow it up and do it again for at least three to four times for that kind of money not making fun or anything but heck that is high.

[1968cuda]

Well, I have from what I can tell the 904 with the 8 1/4 rear single traction. Its pretty much a basic v8 model from 1968. It was running pretty good till it suddenly started loosing oil pressure and then boom....it started knocking, not bad, but it was noticeable, with vibration. The reason I took it over to this shop was because I talked around with old car nuts in my area, and they recommended them to me. Over the phone, as well, they told me that a stock rebuild would be in the 4k range, and a performance about 5k. I figured this was fair so I took it over there before I left for LA. The only thing they have found so far was that the crankshaft was just worn out, after having been beaten and battered over 38 years, it just was at the end of its line. That and it appeared the previous owners didnt do well on oil changes. I think these guys are pretty fair, but some of their pricing was just a little on the high end. They also said over the phone that I can change/modify things to my liking, and they went about trying to find the best parts for performance without going overboard on pricing. Again it seems like its mainly on the labor side. I wont know anything else till they pull the block/heads/parts from the hottank, but one thing I plan on doing is going over them by sight, not by what they tell me. I know what to look for in a basic sense, but beyond that, Im slightly clueless. Thanks again for the help everyone, keep the responses rolling. I dont mind spending money, but at the same time, dont want to get shafted.

[Wes213]

I just re-read one of your posts - it said they couldn't install hardened seats on your old heads, so check on the idea of using 73 to 91 318 or 360 heads. Otherwise, your fresh valvejob won't last as long as you would like using unleaded gas on the old non-hardened seats. Most junkyards will give some basic warranty and should trade you for a different set if your shop says they're not in good enough shape to run as is, let alone a little valve job cleanup. I also noted something about warranty IF it was stock rebuild - so if they put in the bigger cam and 4bbl, there's no warranty?

[1968cuda]

Well the one thing I think they get off on is the fact its northern va(one of the most expensive places in the us), and they are the only shop that still does it in the area. I guess its a matter of convienance which they believe they have. Again, before I go through with this, I'll have to figure out what the warrentee is going to be like...if it sucks....I might just have to find something else...but again, I really want to keep my original engine...

[1968cuda]

Well, one thing I thought about getting was a new set of performance heads that mopar produces...any recommendations?

[1968cuda]

btw Im glad I can get some good advice here.....otherwise I would have said no prob...slammed the money down...and forgot about it....now at least I have some tools to fight with

[Wes213]

MichaelMopar, I think you mean 2.02 not 3.02, or you must have some big notches in those cylinders! Also, Vienna is one of the higher priced areas in the country for this kind of work, the $73 is probably in the ballpark espcially if they're a machine shop type of place.

[Wes213]

you can always store the old engine in your garage/shed for anyone in the future that's trying to do a concours level restoration. I can't imagine bothering with the new MOPAR Perf. heads if you're trying to keep costs low. By the time you buy the crank, cam, intake and heads, you're already a good way toward the price of lower hp 360 crate. Go with a set of junkyard heads that are already hardened and in decent shape needing just a little freshening up. Or maybe buy a cheap entire newer (73-91) 318 from a junkyard with lower mileage and let the shop freshen that one up if it needs it or use it for spare parts like the crank and heads. By the way, the only way a crank wears out is that the journals wear - they usually turn them down and install slightly undersize bearings for that, unless it's really scored badly. If the scoring isn't obvious to the naked eye or fingernail, ask them for the micrometer specs vs standard to explain why it needs to be replaced.

[Wes213]

just remember what the other guy said about fighting... it could cost you more. Ask for good explanations and try to come across as not someone they can totally bulls*t, but not a jerk either

[ehostler]

Originally Posted by 1968cuda

Well the one thing I think they get off on is the fact its northern va(one of the most expensive places in the us), and they are the only shop that still does it in the area. I guess its a matter of convienance which they believe they have. Again, before I go through with this, I'll have to figure out what the warrentee is going to be like...if it sucks....I might just have to find something else...but again, I really want to keep my original engine...

They are the only shop that still does what?? There is an over priced speed shop here in Manassas that has a full machine shop. They will do everything in house. I would never use them, as they don't know MOPAR that well.

The easiest way to determine if a shop is really setup for MOPAR is to ask them if you could see the engine specific torque plate. If they have it, it's worth looking a little closer. If they don't it's time to walk away and find another shop.