Removing Smog Equipt 1973 318

[69rt]

Hi All:

I have a 73 Duster that is a California car, so it has the EGR valve etc smog equipt, Looking for suggestions on removing the smog equipt. Should I remove the EGR and block it off? Remove the vacuum assist and fuel vapor canister? I keep having issues with the idle being rough and I have all the smog hooked up, since it doesn't need it anymore I thought I would remove it.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Welcome
69rt

[cageman]

remove it, it probably has a vacuum leak some where, thats why it is rough idling

[dust]

Remove all but the Vapor Canister. Assuming the system is in good condition, it does not hurt performance.

I don't see much of a reason to remove that unless you want to clear space in the engine compartment or if a component is bad.

[George G. Leverette]

You should determine the reason for the rough idle, the smog equipment will not cause that problem. The smog equipment "is" still required by California law, the law exempts the mandatory checks but if you are a polluter as determined by the random highway patrol checks, the car will be smog checked for the year it was manufactured and must pass the test. Part of the smog check is the visual check for smog equipment, if its not there it will have to be replaced. When was the last time the car had a good tune up?

[dust]

Originally Posted by George G. Leverette

You should determine the reason for the rough idle, the smog equipment will not cause that problem. The smog equipment "is" still required by California law, the law exempts the mandatory checks but if you are a polluter as determined by the random highway patrol checks, the car will be smog checked for the year it was manufactured and must pass the test. Part of the smog check is the visual check for smog equipment, if its not there it will have to be replaced. When was the last time the car had a good tune up?

I have never, ever heard of that being enforced.

Really, it's silly to even consider this... IMO

[LA360Dart]

The state of California can send you a ticket from a moveable smog station and you must appear and show that your car is clean. This can even be done throught a 800 number. If you piss off someone they can say that they saw your car smoking and you'll be issured a summons. If you can leave it, unless the part is no longer made or for some reason ( or unknown to you doesn't work). CHP is the DMV police so they can ticket you also for smog violations...

Denny

[TK]

Thank god I live in Alaska.................

Get it running good with the smog stuff, and leave it there!
EGR really wont hurt anything, even a air pump doesn't drag that much power.

[dodger1]

Early smog stuff (CA was the first for a lot of this stuff, IIRC) shouldn't hurt the tune, but you probably have a bunch of rock-hard vacuum hoses which are a good source for leaks. As mentioned, vapor recovery systems, PCV's, and air pumps don't affect performance. Maybe a coked-up EGR system might. These can get pretty badly plugged with carbon deposits, as can the crossover carb heat passage in the intake. Clean these out. If you really want to disable the EGR you can plug the holes in the floor of the intake under the throttle bores. Cheapest fix - new vac hoses throughout and clean out the carbon. You'll still be legal.

[dust]

Originally Posted by dodger1

As mentioned, vapor recovery systems, PCV's, and air pumps don't affect performance.

I thought air pumps do effect performance?

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by dust

I thought air pumps do effect performance?

All of it does. The air pump is nothing more than a small air compressor and it pulls more hp to run than the water pump or alt. Then there's the egr valve that dilutes the clean air fuel charge with burned and unburned exhuast and that causes a performance loss right there.

[dust]

Originally Posted by dwc43

All of it does.

Then how does the Vapor recovery system effect performance?

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by dust

Then how does the Vapor recovery system effect performance?

Other than weight added to the car and cost, I don't see anything too wrong with that one as far as effecting performance. May be the only that does not effect it that much.

[TK]

It will be a totally different car withthe fifteen pounds taken off of it!
Wont even recognise it anymore!

Sheesh

I want to know how EGR hurt performance too, while you are at it.

[TK]

The air pump is nothing more than a small air compressor and it pulls more hp to run than the water pump or alt.

Your wrong.
It isn't a compressor, and is almost free wheeling, it is more of a fan, than anything.
Way less power robbing than a alternator, or a AC compressor.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by dodgetruckboy

Your wrong.
It isn't a compressor, and is almost free wheeling, it is more of a fan, than anything.
Way less power robbing than a alternator, or a AC compressor.

Wrong. How you going to pump fresh air into the side of the converter when you have exhaust gas pushing against it? You can't. Now, not all of them pump air to the converter, but the ones that do, use the same pump. And as for the egr?, it contaminates the clean A/F with unburned, and burned exhaust gas, and by products of combustion. That will reduce power since it lowers the amount of pure A/F that you have in the cylinder at that time.

[BraydenAmanda]

Platypus dizen gloriously hot, quads message your pendulous drubbing.
Two demolitionists are better than one. But many courteousnesss spoil
the fouling. And a rolling pupillometer gathers no fizz.
Hey Derek Harrington, don't be hardy. You have found her, so go and
photo her. Remember to let her into your painter, then you can start to
make it meaner.I play party poker all the time

Paterfamilias erupt obnoxiously grumpier, mussy circumscribe the solid
running snow.
Chris Ferguson prework to the caprate and absent-mindedly sober his
ford.
Our lamest grizzly cross-question the balmier fiddlestick
Dance, squall,

[TK]

EGR also replaces fresh intake charge with hotter exhaust gas, replaces means it isn't needed. There are two ways to look at it, and, the EGR should be closed under a hard pull.
The air pumps I have seen look like a squirell cage kinda, and they don't rob much power.

But, after that last post..................................freaking momma's boy spammers.....................

[Dart 65]

Originally Posted by BraydenAmanda

Platypus dizen gloriously hot, quads message your pendulous drubbing.
Two demolitionists are better than one. But many courteousnesss spoil
the fouling. And a rolling pupillometer gathers no fizz.
Hey Derek Harrington, don't be hardy. You have found her, so go and
photo her. Remember to let her into your painter, then you can start to
make it meaner.I play party poker all the time

Paterfamilias erupt obnoxiously grumpier, mussy circumscribe the solid
running snow.
Chris Ferguson prework to the caprate and absent-mindedly sober his
ford.
Our lamest grizzly cross-question the balmier fiddlestick
Dance, squall,

WTF? WTF? WTF?

[69rt]

Thanks all for your responses except for the nitwit with the spam post. I wasn't aware that a California car of that year could be still inspected for Smog equipment. I just went and registered it at DMV and they stated that a smog check was not needed. But in California anything is possible these days.

I was thinking a taking out the 2bbl carb and manifold and going to an Edelbrock 4 bbl carb #1406 and a Performer manifold non egr. But now re-thinking I will go with an egr manifold instead.

This is why this site is so great, a lot of knowledgeable people who are willing to share.

Thanks

69rt

[Dart 65]

I'm in the process of de-emissioning my '84 Ramcharger. I'm using an EGR manifold, but am going to block off the ports and the heat cross-over. Carburetion will be from a 1405 Edelbrock. The issue is that my truck will be strictly for off-road and will probably never see the street again. That said, I'd suggest disabling the equipment so that it can be made to work later because while I know California emissions laws to be ridiculous, I don't know how they apply to pre-catalytic convertor cars. You might need to have all of the equipment at some unforseen date. I hope this has helped.

[Chuzz]

Originally Posted by Dart 65

WTF? WTF? WTF?

Yeah, Dart 65, I have to agree with you on that one. I think they were trying to help someone troubleshoot a computer problem.

[mhenesian]

Hi all, I agree with dodgetruckboy,

A properly running air pump (not burned out bearings, etc..) and moderate amounts of EGR can actually improve performance. Air injection continues the "burn" of CO in the headers, thereby increasing exhaust temperature and velocity. Cleaner exhaust plus improved header efficiency (the Smokey Yunick effect - see his book). And some EGR (like a bigger cam) slows down the combustion process by dilution, which can allow a quicker advance curve and more bottom-end response. I think it's all a question of tuning the emissions equiptment rather than removing.

Anyway, in CA expect that all of us with 60's and 70's cars are going to be "screwed" some more. Right now cars that are pre-76 are smog-check exempt (but not smog exempt). It's just a question of time when one of our liberal CA legislators upends the current law and rolls the clock back to 1964. After all, we should all be driving import hybrids, right ? We're so "un-green" with our old muscle cars. Damn they smell so bad. Someone should take down license numbers and call the CHP.

Expect it ! Also so goes CA goes the rest of the nation. Expect that also ! Don't get me started. I joined SEMA last time and fought the CA Smog Law with a letter writing campaign, but despite everyones efforts, we lost !

Mark H.

[John Kunkel]

In different areas of California they still perform random roadside checks including running the car on a treadmill. If you have missing equipment you'll need to replace it so don't toss the stuff you chose to take off.

[dodger1]

Hey, DW. Should that BraytonAmanda post have been a PM to you? If Dart65, who lives on Mars, can't figure it out, must be a personal for you. Don't be shy now - inquiring minds need to know!!

[dust]

Originally Posted by 69rt

Thanks all for your responses except for the nitwit with the spam post. I wasn't aware that a California car of that year could be still inspected for Smog equipment. I just went and registered it at DMV and they stated that a smog check was not needed. But in California anything is possible these days.

I was thinking a taking out the 2bbl carb and manifold and going to an Edelbrock 4 bbl carb #1406 and a Performer manifold non egr. But now re-thinking I will go with an egr manifold instead.

This is why this site is so great, a lot of knowledgeable people who are willing to share.

Thanks

69rt

No, Don't rethink it. It's silly to even consider smoging it or having to re-install the equipment.

How many pre-1975 cars have you seen at local car shows that still have emission systems?

[pishta]

That is why I bought my first 65, EXEMPT from the git-go. Only smog stuff on my car was a C.A.P package that consisted of a PCV valve and a leaner at idle AFB. I Thumb my nose at those roadside guys. And you cant call my car too loud when Harley owners remove their baffles and rattle teeth from lanes away. Oops, different subject...

[George G. Leverette]

You havent heard of the 95 decibel sound level test performed at some drag strips? The 95 DB is an OSHA standard for the work place, some communities have adopted it to apply to the boom boxes in cars and also exhaust pipes. I guess the I'am gonna do what I wanna do attitude is OK unless it affects other people, then the s... hits the fan and the do gooders over legislate the problem and no one wins. I drive the Angeles Crest highway where there are a lot of curves, 400 ft drops with no road barriers, narrow two lane roads with wind gusts and sandy surfaces in summer and black ice and snow in winter, a few rock slides now and then plus blind corners. This is a fun road where you can let it all hang out. The big motor cycles will leave your eyes watering and ears ringing when they pass, you never notice the wet seat until your body functions return to normal, wonder when they will take this away from us?

[Crank]

i'm glad i don't live in cal no offence i'm sure the weather is nice but to many tree huggers for me ,hear in the good old motor city all that crap comes off on the first tune up .it gets in the way of all that crome ,i took enough crap off my truck (83)to fill up a wheel barrel ,now i just tap the key and it fires ,it don't mater if its 105deg or 20 below, it wouldn't do that before i set the motor free. why would you won't to put hot thin contaminated air back into your motor when you can have cooler more dence air all the time .plus all those hoses and and piping and and and CRAP!!!!!Man let me at it and stand clear of all the flyind debree i'll be yankin out.....

[Dart 65]

Originally Posted by dodger1

Hey, DW. Should that BraytonAmanda post have been a PM to you? If Dart65, who lives on Mars, can't figure it out, must be a personal for you. Don't be shy now - inquiring minds need to know!!

What did I supposedly miss?

My '65 Dart is an original California car and has emissions equipment: a hose from the valve cover breather to the air cleaner. I don't believe other '65 Slant 6s had that. Does anyone else know otherwise?

[dust]

Originally Posted by Dart 65

What did I supposedly miss?

My '65 Dart is an original California car and has emissions equipment: a hose from the valve cover breather to the air cleaner. I don't believe other '65 Slant 6s had that. Does anyone else know otherwise?

I don't know if that's really a 'emission equipments'. It's more so a vital component being used efficiently IMO.

But I understand how you would not want the hot engine air in the air cleaner assyÂ