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bronco9588
10-10-2008, 07:47 PM
I was reading my "Big Block Mopar Performance" Book. It talks about the necessity of a thrust button in the cam gear. I acknowledge the thrust button's purpose, but where does it go? Pictures or links would be nice.

bronco9588
10-10-2008, 07:55 PM
Secondly, can this be replaced by a "torrington bearing"

lazarus
10-11-2008, 02:38 PM
The torrington bearing goes between the cam gear and the block. Thrust button goes in center of camshaft and is used to adjust end play between cam and front cover. You'll need to control timing cover flex also. Just weld a big washer to the front so that there is no gap btween the washer and the back of the water pump.

cudabob496
10-16-2008, 04:16 AM
Annapolis, Hmmm, graduated in 1975 from that big dorm room on the river. Hows the town?

bronco9588
10-27-2008, 01:54 PM
I was looking at comp cams 23-710-9 roller cam. I am assuming that it does not come with hydrolic roller lifters. For a roller camshaft conversion, i am getting 670$ with new gears and chain. However, for a hydrolic lifter cam replacement (21-223-4) i am getting 240$. The hydrolic roller lifters seem to be really expensive at about 300$ for a full set with links. Can anyone beat the 670$

rampage_82
10-27-2008, 02:37 PM
I don't think you'll be able to beat your $670 on a Hyd. Setup... If you were wanting to step up to the Mechanical Rollers, you can check out Doug Herbert Performance http://motors.shop.ebay.com/merchant/herbertperformance (keep looking through the cams til you get to the BB Mopar stuff) or Even the Howard's cams are reasonable.. http://www.competitionproducts.com/products.asp?dept=343

Century Cp Guru
10-27-2008, 03:32 PM
Aplate on back side of Timing cover , the water Pump has nothing to do with it, also dont forget the Bronze gear oil pump drive.

bronco9588
10-27-2008, 08:53 PM
I got the bronze gear... but why does it have to be bronze.

DartGT66
10-28-2008, 03:03 AM
Roller cams are steel, and steel is not compatible with cast iron used in regular gears, it will wear out very quickly. Bronze acts like a bearing against the steel gear and will not wear as easily.

rampage_82
10-28-2008, 12:01 PM
Hey I just found these Hyd. Rollers FYI .... http://www.440source.com/camlifters.htm

bronco9588
10-28-2008, 02:34 PM
Aplate on back side of Timing cover , the water Pump has nothing to do with it, also dont forget the Bronze gear oil pump drive.

dont know what you mean hear.

440 source is great...

Tarrbabe
11-04-2008, 04:26 AM
I had a 383 that I overdid and it pushed the rear cam cup out of the engine and I lost all oil pressure. Follow directions closely.It ran great till I pulled into the Drag Strip then the oil pressure went to 0. I hope this never happens to anyone else.:idea:

bronco9588
11-06-2008, 10:45 AM
Good advice...

DartGT66
11-06-2008, 11:11 AM
Hmmm. The cam shouldn't be anywhere near the cam plug in the rear of the block. With a regular cam, the lobes and oil pump drive are pushing the camshaft rearwards, and the cam gear against the block is holding it in the correct position. With a roller, there is no taper in the lobes, and you have to handle limiting the forward movement of the cam otherwise, usually with a cam button. So, as far as the rear cam plug goes, it really doesn't change anything wether using a roller or a flat tappet.

bronco9588
11-08-2008, 10:41 PM
so a cam button is all i really need?

pcrmike
11-08-2008, 10:45 PM
yup :-) PCRMike

Tarrbabe
11-09-2008, 03:09 AM
The rear cam cup should not have come into play DartGT66. The cam should never come in contact with the rear cup. But I do know that I took a 69 Dodge Station Wagon w/383 auto and changed the heads and cam and knocked the rear cam cup out of the back of the motor. I installed a sef 200 heads and the Lanati Cam and pushed the rear cam cup out of the engine. I did the swap on a Sat. and took the car for a cruse on Sat. Night. Ran great. Sunday I got up and headed to the strip, 15 miles away. I stopped at the gate and paid my money and when I took off from the gate, the oil pressure went from 30 to 0. Car only had 62,000 , miles on it. I had it towed home and found the rear cup missing. What would you think. I would really like to have another idea.
I had just bought the car a few weeks before and swaped form a single exhaust to headers and from a 2.8 gear to headers and a 4.30 gear, the car went from 18 plus to a 13.50 with exh,. and gear. I was expecting huge increases but didn't get to run even one lap.:shrug:

bronco9588
11-09-2008, 06:01 PM
bummer... I would think the length of the cam with the gears on it would not allow it to hit the bronze freeze plug/ cup. I was also considering putting a torrington bearing thereby decreasing this distance.

65BELVEDEUCE
11-09-2008, 07:10 PM
you may also look at comp cams poly dist. gears, dont know if they have one for mopar yet, but if they do thats the way to go....about 2x the price of bronze, but you dont have to replace them every 6-12 months either. all these cam companies tell you that because of how the mopar gear sits in the block you dont have to replace them as much as on a chevy, but why take the chance at all.

not 100% sure...its been almost 2 yrs since i quit selling hot rod goodies, but i think comp and lunati both have finally come out with true hydualic roller cams that may not require anything other than a stock gear....as opposed to solid rollers with hyd roller lifters on them, which is what it sounds like you may be getting now.

DartGT66
11-10-2008, 01:45 AM
I have yet to wear out a bronze gear in the big block. Switched to a roller in 1994 and have used three gears, changed them "just to be sure", not becuase of excessive wear.

bronco9588
11-10-2008, 12:49 PM
how many miles do you suggest?

Century Cp Guru
11-10-2008, 08:14 PM
Bronco , When you put the cam button in it will hit the cover when running as not to wear the cover most weld a plate or awasher on back side of timing cover.

DartGT66
11-11-2008, 04:08 AM
With the three gears I have had, they ahve maybe some 40000-50000 miles combined. The worst worn still had about 75% of the gear thickness left and was saved as a spare. Menawhile I have went through some five sets of lifters seven sets of rockers, several cams etc. So, at least for me the Bronze gear isn't the biggest concern.

The cam end play should be set to about .005-.008" The less, the better. The stock timing cover is way too flimsy to control the cam end play accurately, it should either be reinforced conisderably or switched to cast or billet cover. teh biggest concern in keeping the cam end play to a minimum is, that the cam moving back and forth will affect ignition timing quite a lot.

451Mopar
11-12-2008, 03:55 AM
Attached photo of the Cloyes roller cam button in the 440 Source torrington thrust bearing timming gear with the -0.005" gold Rolon timming chain.
The washers under the sprocket bolts hold the thrust button in place, and there is a sleeve that goes over the outer part of the cam button. This is the only rollerized cam button I know of for the big block Mopar, so it should not wear the timming chain cover as much as the solid aluminum cam buttons.
I think Comp cams also sells a nylon cam button?

Also, the bronze gear is not a big deal. With over 10,000 miles on the old engine the gear still looks nearly new, although there is a little bit of wear on the shaft where the block bushing is.

DartGT66
11-12-2008, 04:43 AM
I have had all three (or actually four) styles of "cam buttons", the crane aluminum, comp cams nylon and rollerized out of pete jackson. None of them have made considerable wear on the covers, only slightly "polished" them. The fourth style I referred to is Jesel, that uses bornze bearings for and after, and shims for adjusting the end play.

bronco9588
12-15-2008, 02:22 PM
Torrington bearings. Is there any special way i have to mount this thing, or does it just rest between the sprocket and block?

DartGT66
12-16-2008, 02:57 AM
It just rests there.

bronco9588
12-16-2008, 11:23 AM
is there a front or a back? and i dont have to worry about spacing problems?