Decent audio in vintage mopar?? any ideas?

[wiesshund]

I have a 71 dodge challenger
my current old sony pullout is starting to die, 1 channel distorted with little bass.

My power comes from a radio shack eq/amp late 80's vintage
(dont laugh, its one of the few they had that contained a real amp in the eq)

In the rear deck are useable pioneer 3way 6X9's

OK now for starters, i dont want sub boxes in the trunk and im not competing or anything, i just want to hear the radio.

Oh i should mention, its a big block car with straight exhaust no mufflers, hence the need to hear the radio.

Does anyone make a stereo speaker that would fit in the front stock dash speaker location?
Cutting holes in my interior panels is not going to be an option
as they are mint.


What kind of eq amp options do i have?
I want an eq because i dont like the built in 3 band stuff most head units seem to have now days
Id like 7 bands, and i know nobody makes a decent amp/eq combo anymore
Amp wise i think id only want 100 watts, but how would i get both front and rear signals into 1 eq and 1 amp?

Does anyone make a decent AM/FM/CD/Cassette combo that fits a standard dash opening?
I see one at crutchfield, but dont know if its worth the $270 for it.

[riquiscott]

For the front speakers, you could remove your kickpanels and store them someplace safe. Then, have some kickpanel enclosures made to hold a 5 1/4" or 6 1/2" speaker and a tweeter in each kickpanel.

You can get a 4-channel amp to power all four speakers, but I'd recommend something higher than 100 watts total, especially with a loud engine.

If you want to use an equalizer, your best bet is to run a single pair of preouts from the head unit to the equalizer, and then run a splitter from the equalizer to the front and rear inputs of the amp. You'll lose the ability to fade the sound front-to-rear from the head unit, but you can still adjust the front/rear fading using the amplifier gains, and once it's set, it's not something you generally need to touch again.

I don't know anyone other than Sanyo that makes a single-DIN chassis cd/cassette combo, but $270 sounds like a fair price for one.

Scott Gardner

[wiesshund]

I think the kick panels would be a problem because

1) there isnt any backspace behind them
2) The exhaust kind of routes through that area, so lot of heat and noise.

What about a couple 3" on some kind of adapter plate in the dash
i'd need to choke out the bass though
Crossover or capacitor?

You think i'd need more than 100 watts rms?

I wish car stereo's had the EQ loop back into the preamp like a home stereo does.
I also wish they didnt come with those goofy preset EQ's.
Id rather just have bass and treble than those presets

here are the 2 stereo's i was thinking of
(i want cassette cause i have like 100 million of them)

Stereo 1

Stereo 2

And i found this 3rd one

Stereo 3

[landyacht67]

If I'm not mistaken your factory dash speaker was a 4X10, so you should be able to run 2 4" on a single baffle. Run coaxials to get a little extra treble. Going this way you will lose your stereo effect, but you will get plenty of sound.

[NZ 440R/T]

Yupe, I'm almost up this stereo choice on my resto. After not wanting anything jap in my car I decided to go for what I think the best make is, Pioneer. I'll be getting the DEH9400 like that makes any difference to you guys I wanted something that plays a single CD, has CD changer control and wasn't to expensive looking but also not cheap, plain and simple!


Plus this one has Blue face color so it matches my B5 Blue interior!

[riquiscott]

Originally posted by NZ 440R/T
Yupe, I'm almost up this stereo choice on my resto. After not wanting anything jap in my car I decided to go for what I think the best make is, Pioneer. I'll be getting the DEH9400 like that makes any difference to you guys I wanted something that plays a single CD, has CD changer control and wasn't to expensive looking but also not cheap, plain and simple!


Plus this one has Blue face color so it matches my B5 Blue interior!

Seems like a nice choice. You realize that Pioneer is a Japanese company, right? I couldn't tell from your post if you went with Pioneer because you didn't want a Japanese head unit, or realized that there weren't any American-made head units, and decided on Pioneer as a good Japanese choice.

Scott Gardner

[NZ 440R/T]

Yupe, you pretty much nailed it. I started a thread a while back asking if there was any American made head-units as I didn't want anything jap in my car, after finding out there was none I decided to go for the best Japanese make. I have had nothing but good from my set up in the Subaru. In dash DVD, TV, Mini-Disc, CD stacker etc so I'll go with them again. Thanks, I thought it was a great choice as it shines that B5 Blue! LOL!!

[riquiscott]

Originally posted by wiesshund
I think the kick panels would be a problem because

1) there isnt any backspace behind them
2) The exhaust kind of routes through that area, so lot of heat and noise.

What about a couple 3" on some kind of adapter plate in the dash
i'd need to choke out the bass though
Crossover or capacitor?

You think i'd need more than 100 watts rms?

I wish car stereo's had the EQ loop back into the preamp like a home stereo does.
I also wish they didnt come with those goofy preset EQ's.
Id rather just have bass and treble than those presets

Kickpanel installations usually involve building out a small enclosure, and then attaching it in place of the factory kickpanels. They will protrude an two or three inches into the footwell, but they don't require any open space behind the factory kickpanels.

You might be able to put two 3.5" or 4" speakers in place of the factory 4" X 10" speaker, but as another poster mentioned, your stereo separation won't be very good.

As for keeping the bass frequencies out of the front speakers, I would recommend getting a combo equalizer/crossover and taking care of all your signal processing needs in one shot. One of my favorite simple combo units is the AudioControl EQX. It's a 13-band stereo equalizer as well as a 2-way crossover. The crossover section uses a 24 dB/octave L-R filter for a nice sharp cutoff, and there's a subsonic filter as well. It also lets you adjust output voltages for level-matching to your amp.

You can buy the EQX all day long used on eBay for $75-$135. I recommend any of their products - I have about six of their processors in my various cars, and they've always performed flawlessly.

Regarding the amplifier power, I'm not saying 100WRMS wouldn't be enough, because I haven't heard your car, but with a big-block and no mufflers, I'm guessing it's pretty loud. I'd recommend that you give yourself some wiggle room and get a four-channel, 200W amplifier. 50WRMS to each of the front speakers will be a little much if you end up using 3.5" or 4" speakers, but you don't have to turn the volume up all the way. Watts are cheap these days - may as well buy a little extra rather than coming up short.

I know what you mean about the equalizers in newer headunits. Some of the companies are getting wise and including 3-band parametric equalizers in their decks. You only get three bands, but you get to choose both the center frequency of each band and the "Q" for each band. Since you can vary the center frequency, a 3-band parametric is all you need, as long as you don't have more than three heinous dips or spikes in your frequency response curve.

Scott Gardner

[wiesshund]

well kick panel mount is a no go then.
the e-brake assembly is 1/16" off the drivers side panel.

if i angled the center dash speakers /\ kind of like that
one pointing left and one pointing right, i guess ill get some separaration.

Only reason i want fronts is because i know i will lose high frequencies coming from the back of the car.

As for what kind of car sound im competing with
Click here

[kamstra]

Well your car sounds better than any stereo!

[Predator]

hey , you dont have to go out and spend a fortune on your stereo. pioneer has alot of great cd-head units, that have 20 band eq's built in, this will be your biggest expence of it all. find a cd deck that matches your dash lights as was said by another mopar fan of this forum, you know now that I think of It crutchfield elecronics, ( a very respectible mail order company) is advertising a cd unit that has over 100 possible display colors, and lots of good speakers. probably get a high powered cd head-unit, and I really love the sound of the Infinity Kappa mids and high's! get whatever you can find without hacking up your rear package tray , and then mabye find some windsheild tweeter pods,to bring out those sizzling Infinity high's! and to have the sound closer to ear level. (why do manufacturers put the damn speakers on the bottom of the door panels? do they think we are driving while laying on the floor?! ) Oh well..... mabye I was some kind of help?!

[riquiscott]

Originally posted by Predator
[B(why do manufacturers put the damn speakers on the bottom of the door panels? do they think we are driving while laying on the floor?! ) Oh well..... mabye I was some kind of help?! [/B]

Well, there's a couple of reasons for mounting speakers in the doors (or even in the kick panels) instead of the dash. One reason is that you can mount larger speakers in the doors. Dash speakers are usually 3 1/2", 4", or 5 X 7. Doors can typically hold 5.25" or 6.5" speakers without too much fuss.

Also, putting speakers low in the doors or in the kick panels minimizes the path-length differences from the speakers to your ears. Since we don't sit in the middle of our cars, the left speaker will always be closer to the driver than the right speaker. The closer the speakers are to the driver, the bigger the difference is. If you have speakers in each end of your dash, the left speaker may be twice as close to your ears as the right speakers. This hurts the stereo imaging and can cause phase problems. With the speakers further away from your head, the difference in distance is smaller.

As for the rest of the stereo, I'd really recommend *some* kind of amplifier. Between road noise and a loud engine, the built-in amplification in the head unit probably won't be able to keep up. Even the "high-power" head units only put out an honest 20 Watts per channel at best. Amps have gotten fairly cheap, and allow you to overcome road noise and environmental noise without driving the head unit into clipping and distortion.

Scott Gardner

[fastmopars .inc]

basically if your gonna worry about how loud your stereo is, you are gonna have to worry about how loud your car is on the interior.
you will never overcome the road noise from one of our 30 year old bricks with anything less than a 5000 watt stereo system. your better off doubling the insulation throughout the entire car, blocking out as much outside noise as possible through the floors and especially the trunk area where your rear speakers are going to be, as well as the firewall area because that's where your closest too. a 10 inch sub with a good amp and 4 speakers with a 2 or 4 channel amp would sound just right

[whiteowl]

I'm in the somewhat same situation. I have gone this route. My 69 RR had 4" speakers in the dash. Those were replaced with Boston Acoustics. The center speaker was left out...period. the rear speakers were 6x9s in the rear side panels and 5 1/2" round speakers were placed in the original door panels. All the modifications were done to the original panels front and back because.....they weren't in that good of condition to start with. I realizied that I can replace these items from Year One, Paddock etc. fairly easily sooo........that was the sacrifice I made to install a decent stereo and enjoy my ride at the same time. The trade-off for me was functionality verses showcar particulars. When the time comes ( when I die) that this car leaves my side I'l worry about OEM appearences. Just another idea, opinionated bar talk...etc. Good luck.

[NZ 440R/T]

I bought my new Challenger sound system last week, Can't wait.......

[viper11]

NZ -
youll never fit all that audio in that little car

Ja

[NZ 440R/T]

Originally posted by viper11
NZ -
youll never fit all that audio in that little car

Ja

Hmmmmm, maybe if I take the spare tire out?

[72challenger77c]

First let me introduce myself, my name is bill.
Growing up back in 1971 dad bought me a brand new challenger.
I kept it till 77 when good ole dad bought me a 77 cordoba. Tuff childhood, lol.
Actually, my first new car was a 69 firebird bought for me by ...

In the last year I have purchased a 72 challenger and a 77 cordoba, both mint. You can see both along with my 3 1994 capri converts at my 2 page cardomain site
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/502765

I bought the challenger 4 months ago, it had no a/c and only manual brakes. Well after having a/c and power disc brakes put in, there was one last thing to do- a stereo.

The car came without a stereo, no speakers under the grille in the rear, and the 2 speakers under the grill in the front are torn up & useless.

So I went to circuit city and bought a nice pioneer deck, pioneer 6 X 9's for the back and pioneer 3.5's for the front.
They installed the deck, ran the wires to the back, installed the back speakers, so far so good.

However, the magnets on the front speakers are too big to fit into the recessed holes in the dash, and I went to 4 other places today and nobody has anything, even radio shack. It seems the magnets are just a little bigger than the size of a quarter and about 3/4 inch thick. And all of today's speakers have magnets the size of the whole speaker.

So aside from having holes cut into the doors.... what do I do?
Does anyone know a web site that might sell odd size car speakers or any other ideas.
Or someplace that would sell these speakers
Right now it's just playing through the rear speakers, not too bad but the engine & exhaust is kinda loud.

[al_jam]

Originally Posted by NZ 440R/T

Yupe, I'm almost up this stereo choice on my resto. After not wanting anything jap in my car I decided to go for what I think the best make is, Pioneer. I'll be getting the DEH9400 like that makes any difference to you guys I wanted something that plays a single CD, has CD changer control and wasn't to expensive looking but also not cheap, plain and simple!


Plus this one has Blue face color so it matches my B5 Blue interior!

JVC is a Canadian company but im not sure where their made, i used one of there el camilion head units in my cutlass, it was pretty slick, when you turned off the car all the buttons and knobs retracted into the face.

[72challenger77c]

Canada don't count, lol.

[riquiscott]

Originally Posted by al_jam

JVC is a Canadian company but im not sure where their made,

As has been mentioned before, JVC is a Japanese Company. Like many multinational corporations, there is a division of JVC that serves Canada, but JVC itself is and always has been Japanese. Look up what "JVC" stands for if you're interested.

Scott

[al_jam]

junior victor company but im not sure and dont want to look.

[riquiscott]

Pretty close. The "J" stands for "Japanese", not "Junior".

Scott

[landyacht67]

My JVC rep said it stands for "Junk Very Cheap"


apparently he doesn't like the company he works for



Julian

[teddy1500]

I'm not sure if my 2 cents are worth any thing, but for my charger, I'm thinking of useing a sony "boat commander" it allows you to put the radio any place you want (glovebox) and a small round controler wired out from under the seat. NO CUTTING,

[winkybeepr]

Back in '90 I went through the same struggle for speaker placement in my '71 Road Runner. Since you hear the upper ranges and feel the lower ranges the thinking at the time was to get the midrange/tweeter speakers closer to your ears and lower ranges just had to be in the car. I had a pair of nice looking Alpine surface mount midrange/tweeters and I almost screwed them on the upper door panels to get them in range until I found out you just couldn't buy these panels anywhere. I then thought about putting them together under the front/center grill of the dash, no stereo separation as you guys have already pointed out. Screwing them on top of the dash was another option I threw out after looking at the price of dash pads and thinking about giving those local delinquents way too much reason to smash up my ride. I was about to rubber band them onto the under side of the sunvisors when it occured to me they would fit nice under the headliner on both sides of the car. I ran the wires under the A-pillar moulding and slipped those speakers between the thin "holy" material of the headliner and the insulation. The headliner is not 100% "sound transparent" but with an amp for each speaker there seems to be plenty of sound and I didn't have to hack any holes where I would regret them later.
Although I had already carved up a spare instrument panel for the AM/FM cassette (which I had reconstructed with both knobs on one side like the factory jobs) I also mounted a removable CD player into the console mount factory cassette player housing. It almost looks like it came from the factory that way. And this was back in '90!