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  #91  
Old 09-25-2005, 11:30 PM
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millerman340 millerman340 is offline
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If you use the r3 9.00 deck race cover meant for the engine plate can you use it without the plate? Make a spacer?..Dave
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  #92  
Old 05-26-2006, 03:41 PM
it's all dodge it's all dodge is offline
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Default thanks for good cooling tips!

This is some good stuff to know, when I can put my 13 to 1 340 together, (complete with Cyl. head studs, mls head gaskit,lighter then stock weight rotating assy.) I'll need all the help I can get. I have seen someone use a 5 gallon cylinder like you would see used from a convenience store carbinated drink machine, so it can be filled with 5 gal. water then pressureized, mounted behind the drivers seat, a hose with a open/close lever within the drivers reach,that goes up to spray a mist in the radiator, it helps! How much cooler do you think headers will let you run, compared to '70 340 manifolds, when rejetted properly?Where I hope to race they made headers legal,I don't know if the typical 1 5/8 header will have enough ground clearance, I'll get tti ones if needed! Kinda spendy, and I don't need crome on the car. Good to know the stock pump cuts out around 4000, we never messed with pulley size before, you can bet I will on the next one! Thanks! Tom
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  #93  
Old 08-02-2006, 05:52 PM
HankL HankL is offline
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This is a great thread!
Thanks to Sanborn for taking the time to write it and post the pictures!

I have done a lot of mining work pumping 4 inch rocks along with 12,000 gallons per minute of water through 16 inch by 16 inch super hard 'white iron' centrifugal pumps like those made by Warman or Georgia Iron Works.

As you might imagine, the rocks are abrasive and wear everything out.

Just like Sanborn explains, if you want to keep the pumping flow up, you have to keep adjusting the impellor so that the clearance to the plate at the suction side is tight and does not allow the water to 'sneak circuit' from high pressure side to low pressure side.

This is called 'parasitic recirculation' in the pump engineering trade.

To read Sanborn's trick of tig welding an aluminum plate of 0.040 clearance for the Mopar Small Block pump impellor to greatly reduce the parasitic recirculation made perfect sense.

Does anyone have any information about what adjustments need to be made to the cooling holes in the 1992+ Magnum cylinder head style head gasket?

If you were having Cometic build a MLS gasket for a Magnum Cylinder Head, what special instructions should be given to them for gasket hole sizes and punch-outs for the best balance of coolant flow?

I am presently running the Evans Cooling waterless NPG style coolant in 1995 Magnum 360 V8. At 210 degrees F Howard Stewart wrote on a post at his old question/answer board that the NPG coolant had the same viscosity (thinness) as water and flowed about the same. The NPG is supposed to form less steam-like bubbles at hot spots but also only has about 66% of the ability to carry away heat (specific heat) as water.

Any guesses as to what 'balancing' modifications ought to be done to a Mopar 59 degree block's cooling passages if NPG coolant is used?

Would people agree that the two extra coolant lines from the rear of the intake manifold to the spacer over top the thermostat flange would work well for the Magnum small blocks too?

At the Evans Cooling website there is an article where they describe running their NPG coolant in Magnum 318 V8s in police duty Jeeps. They mention that they had to modify the coolant passages in the rear of the head gasket but don't say what they did....would it be safe to guess that the coolant in the rear of the mopar small block was getting too hot and promoting detonation in cylinder's #7 and #8?

The Magnum cylinder head is said to have exhaust port flow that is not all that good. (but good intake port flow)

I have suspected that cylinders #7 and #8 get better exhaust port flow than the other 6 cylinders because they exhaust into the very rear of the cast iron factory exhaust manifold. I suspect this increases the overall airflow and makes cylinders #7 and #8 run leaner than the other six cylinders....since all 8 cylinders get the same dose of fuel from the fuel injectors.

I like the idea of running without a thermostat and making some kind of adjustable shutter in front of the radiator to control coolant temperature. The air that flows through the radiator causes aerodynamic drag...both at the front of the vehicle and then...double bad...by going underneath the vehicle and flowing past the rough surfaces there. Limiting airflow through the radiator to just the minimum needed for cooling would therefore make the vehicle go faster at high speeds especially.
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  #94  
Old 08-04-2006, 12:51 AM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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Biggrin

The best time to call me is Monday through Wednesday from about 10 AM to 12 AM, and from 1PM to about 4 PM, Central Time. I'm available the other two days but sometimes I'm not in the office. My office number is 931/684-4737. That is the number for ARK Paper Company. I usually answer the phone.

Feel free to call anytime. I will be glad to help any way I can. If you need to purchase a trailer load of perforated kraft paper----I can help with that too!
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  #95  
Old 10-16-2006, 06:45 PM
70sixpkrt 70sixpkrt is offline
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If you use an Edelbrock High flow water pump do you have to use a high flow thermostat or can you just use a regular Stat thermostat? This is on a 440 street car.
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  #96  
Old 02-27-2007, 03:06 PM
dirt track dirt track is offline
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Sanborn: Great thread. I am building a 360 and want to do your cooling mods but instead of blocking the four holes in the block I would like to TIG weld the holes in the heads closed. Do you see a ploblem with this? Also could I run the water from the back of the intake to the opening under the stat where the heater hose would tie in? I was thinking of brazing a tee there for the two new water lines. Yes I know I would not be able to run a stat with this setup but I read I shouldn't run one anyway. I have had nothing but trouble trying to keep my mopar cool so I can't wait to try this. THANKS!
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  #97  
Old 02-27-2007, 04:25 PM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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You can TIG the holes closed---but why not use some freeze plugs to do the same thing? I just don't like welding, taking a chance on warpage, when some other procedure will work as well.

Just make sure you don't create a possible air pocket.

As for the hoses from the back of the intake---plumbing into the intake water crossover is fine---just make sure an air pocket isn't created. That's why I use a riser under the water outlet to raise the hoses up to create a natural rise in the hoses. Then I know I won't creat an air pocket.
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  #98  
Old 02-27-2007, 05:54 PM
dirt track dirt track is offline
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Great, thanks!
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  #99  
Old 02-27-2007, 10:12 PM
GoodysGotaCuda GoodysGotaCuda is offline
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Great info guys!
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  #100  
Old 03-05-2007, 05:06 PM
dirt track dirt track is offline
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This has probaly been answered already but I read everything once again and am still not sure. Is it best to block off the hose from the water pump to the intake. I assume if you don't run a stat you should block the hose, thanks.
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  #101  
Old 03-08-2007, 11:24 AM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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If you don't use a thermostat, then you don't need the bypass hose.
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  #102  
Old 03-08-2007, 12:06 PM
dirt track dirt track is offline
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Thanks Sanborn, I'm sure glad your on our side!
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  #103  
Old 03-09-2007, 05:50 PM
dirt track dirt track is offline
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Sorry to burden you with more questions Sanborn. I took my intake off today and was going to drill holes in the back for the water lines. I noticed this intake (I think it's from a throttle body) has the holes open to the head and the holes run across the intake to the front. Every other stock intake I have looked at has no holes open in the back. Would I not be best off pushing the water at the back through the intake and out the front? If not I can block these off and still drill and tap them out the top. Thanks again.
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  #104  
Old 03-12-2007, 11:34 AM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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The only purpose for bringing out water from the back of the intake is to prevent "air pockets" in the head at the rear of the engine. It sounds like the factory intake already has that covered. Use it if it already has the provision.
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  #105  
Old 03-12-2007, 04:58 PM
dirt track dirt track is offline
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Thanks I will. Does anyone else have an intake like this (4344000). I was told it flows better and in my opinion have the coolant running through it is a good thing.
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  #106  
Old 05-29-2007, 12:45 AM
Brett W8 dart Brett W8 dart is offline
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  #107  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:51 PM
65Brutis 65Brutis is offline
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Sanborn i have been asking questions for months now ever sense i read this post. i can't see the pics so i just have to ask. if the head gaskets cover the front core holes why plug them? at least the MP gaskets i just got in do 4120094s. aren't the back core holes blocked by the fact the the intake doesn't have a crossover path. i have a 360 that has run hot ever sense i put it together. i have tried all the normal things every body has suggested.
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  #108  
Old 09-26-2007, 10:59 PM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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The head gasket covers the front passage from block to head. The rear passage is open. And the rear passage should be plugged. And on a stock water flow, that is where most of the water flows from block to head.

The thought on water flow on a stock type block is to get as much flow around the exhaust valves---since that is where most of the heat buildup is.

Heating problems can come from many different sources. Water pump speed too slow/too fast, head gaskets installed backwards, air pockets is the coolant---as well as improper tune on the engine/ lean condition.
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  #109  
Old 09-26-2007, 11:23 PM
65Brutis 65Brutis is offline
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good that is one thing i have been trying to find out or confrim. rapid robert is going to see if a set of felpros can be put on backwards. the MP gaskets can't because the dowel pins in the block index them correctly. now if we block the water flow to the heads by pluging the back core holes how will the water get in the heads? just the small holes across the heads. is that enough flow? thanks for your response.
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  #110  
Old 09-27-2007, 11:25 AM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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Go back and look at the photos in the text. You will see that there is a row of holes down at the lower row of head studs. That is where you want most of the coolant to flow through.

Not all Mopar heads have those holes in the block and heads. If not, they need to be drilled. Use the head gasket as a guide as to the location for the holes. Generally, a 3/8" hole is minimum size, 1/2" is better. On some gaskets, you will need to enlarge the gasket opening for coolant flow.

Note one thing! When you plug the large hole in the back of the block, drill a small 3/16" hole in the top of the plug. If you don't, you create the potential of an air pocket in the block.
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  #111  
Old 09-27-2007, 11:52 AM
65Brutis 65Brutis is offline
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that is good info. i was just able to see the pics. i will save them and compare when i pull my heads. let me restate what i think i am hearing. 1. you don't need to plug the front core holes because the head gaskets installed correctly will cover those. 2. you need to plug the rear core holes because the gasket doesn't cover them. 3. with the rear core holes pluged u need to open all the bottom holes in the block and head to 3/8 or better 1/2 using the gasket as a template. this forces the water from the block to flow more in the heads and out the front crossover passage in the intake and back to the rad. in turn cooling the motor better. i have a 360 that is built mild and it has run hot ever sense i put it together. i have already done all the things listed in many forums and what all my friends could think of.
i will be pulling the heads soon to see if this help. i want to make sure i understand. thanks a ton. gary
another thought you know mag. blocks did away with that core hole and mag heads are known to crack. it's even hard to find a good pair in JYs.
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  #112  
Old 11-06-2007, 01:34 PM
tkkruzer tkkruzer is offline
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Default Dummy question

all of this info is excellent, but I was wondering if any or all of this could be applied to a street engine? as I want my car not to overheat. any info would by appreciated...thanx Tom
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  #113  
Old 11-06-2007, 03:16 PM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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Race engines are at high RPM---and they generate most of the heat around the exhaust valves. And that is why you try to get as much cooling to the exhaust valves by modifying the coolant flow.

A street engine is different in that more of the heat is generated in the cylinder bore and over all the combustion chamber. So the coolant flow needs to be a little different. You still need coolant flow around the exhaust valves---but you need greater flow over all the cylinder head. So the holes at the bottom of the block should be smaller(about 1/4") and the hole in the back of the block still needs plugging but a larger hole should be drill in the plug(about 1/2"). This is an attempt to keep the head temperature as consistent as possible.

The trick on a street engine is flowing enough coolant at idle wituout flowing too much at higher RPM(6000+) to cause cavitation.
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  #114  
Old 11-07-2007, 04:28 AM
hotrod7043 hotrod7043 is offline
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how those Mp permonce water pumps work? they weremt around when i was at it heavy, 8 blade and block the bypass? have to leave this one to you sanborn as yur the resident "Circle Tracker"
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  #115  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:26 PM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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It depends on which MP "performance" water pump you are talking about.

If you are talking about the pump that goes with the special front timing chain cover----they work real well in race applications. And probably would work in street applications as well.

If you are talking about the stock type, eight blade pump---they work OK, but really need the gap between the impellors and the timing cover to be closed up to .100" or less. There are aftermarket pumps that work as well as that MP pump---and probably cost less.
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  #116  
Old 11-08-2007, 11:15 AM
tkkruzer tkkruzer is offline
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Default street cooling

so i'm using a stock intake, will this be work-able? and you're speaking about the plug at the back/top being drilled to 1/2" amd the bottom ones at a 1/4" aren't they at that now.as far as the lower one go? thanx a bunch Tom
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  #117  
Old 11-08-2007, 11:54 AM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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Some blocks are drilled along the bottom edge, some are not, some are partially drilled. There is no consistency. You must check each block---and heads too! A lot of heads are only partially drilled.
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  #118  
Old 11-08-2007, 04:25 PM
tkkruzer tkkruzer is offline
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Default thank you

thank you sir for the info. I will begin this project real soon and my goal is a cool running engine in my R/R. this is what I enjoy the most about these forums, one can get an education better than many schools could ever offer. talk at you guys later,,,Tom
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  #119  
Old 01-15-2008, 01:42 AM
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i will be doing this mods to my engine. it's great to hear about all this mopars. thought i was going crazy! (i see gm every where all the time)
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  #120  
Old 02-24-2008, 09:28 AM
Mudologist Mudologist is offline
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Where is the best place to install a temp gauge?
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