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  #1  
Old 11-26-2002, 03:38 PM
Sheffy Sheffy is offline
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Thumbs up R/T heads- Pros and Cons

This question is for only those who HAVE R/T heads on a Dak R/T. I have 90 % of the bolt ons with headers and 3" exhaust. I want to add better flowing heads and keep the stock cam. I am 265 RWHP and 341 FLT. Will heads get me any serious gains? Never mind track times! I want real seat of the pants feeling power!!!! So, anyoune out there with all the bolt-ons and a stock cam. Please post dynu #'s if you have them.

Sheffy
2000 RC R/T
14.389 @96.70 mph
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2002, 06:47 PM
salarguy salarguy is offline
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Forget all but 2.02s Then without M1 2b, turtle,TB,1.7s, and 3.92/4.10, they're just not in sync. So figure on about $5k, unless you do your own labour. 408 is starting to look like a deal! Then you start all over. Viper crate? DC spread this sickness!
Salarguy
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2002, 07:03 PM
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i'm not a V8 guy, but i think $5K is WAY too much for all those things.

he's got an R/T, so he'll have the 3.92's stock.

you should get the M1 2bbl if you are going with the R/T heads. go with the cast iron heads, you'll have to do a lot of work with the Aluminum heads.

i have heard that the turtle won't do much (i think you can skip it).

i would definitely go with the 1.7's.

with those combined, i would imagine you pushing about 300RWHP, maybe more.

you should go to www.hughesengines.com to see what they offer, then make your decisions.

again, i'm not a V8 driver, but these are just the things i would do if i had a V8.
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  #4  
Old 11-26-2002, 07:34 PM
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Default R/T heads on a Stroker

I have a 408ci stroker and R/T "big valve" unported heads. My truck made 335ftlb torque and 260hp at the rearwheels on 8.5:1 compression. It's set for a future Supercharger. Mine is running lean and has a lack of timing and fuel. That's good when you take my problems into account.
I can't say that my R/T heads have done a lot for my stroker because they came from a magnum380(360ci) that was +10:1 compression. Now, I had it converted to a stroker. Much more torque and I did have my R/T heads ported and polished which they say helped my power a lot. I do also have the 1.6 roller rockers and performance valve springs.
So I can't really say that they are a big improvement because I've changed so many things other than heads. My mechanics say they help a lot.
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  #5  
Old 11-27-2002, 02:20 AM
Sheffy Sheffy is offline
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Default R/T heads

Cliff and all who replied. I have so many mods now I'm lossing track!!!! I forgot to mention i HAVE a 2bbl. intake and a
Jeff Arnold large turtle. Looks like my dyno #'s are better than Cliff's until he gets that monster motor tuned properly!!!
I'm 265 rwhp and 341 flt. Look at the profile. The only thing missing is MSD, which I don't think will help , elec. fan and UD pulleys.

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping to hear more. Oh well!

Sheffy 2000 RC R/T
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2002, 09:56 AM
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I just did a R/T 2.02 head swap on my 318. According to my butt dyno and other people that have ridden, the truck pulls a lot harder. However my track times show no improvement. I have yet to get it dynoed with the new heads.

With ported stock heads and all the mods listed below, I dynoed 275.5hp, and 268 ft lbs.
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2002, 01:37 PM
Cliff Foster Cliff Foster is offline
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With some computer tweaking, I think that I an make a little more power. I did run a 15.7@89mph at the drag strip with a stock rear in an SLT without a limited slip rear. With better traction I could maybe run in the 13's. My right rear tire took a beating that night and spun 1/2 of the track all four passes.
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2002, 12:53 PM
Sheffy Sheffy is offline
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Hey Cliff. What are you waiting for! All that power and limited slip? Go for 4.10's or 4.56's gears ASAP and you'll wish you had done it sooner. The Dakota R/T's come from the factory with posi 3.92 gears for that reason!!! You need to get that power to the ground.

Sheffy
2000 RC R/T
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2002, 05:14 PM
Cliff Foster Cliff Foster is offline
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Default $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

It's all coming in due time and Santa Clause is coming to town. I have to make the money for it first and I will probably go to 4.10's and maybe leaing more toward 3.92. I currently have 3.55's with an open face differential. It's got a lot of kick now and I know that I will be pleasantly surprised when I get good gears in it.
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Old 12-03-2002, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: R/T heads

Quote:
Originally posted by Sheffy
Cliff and all who replied. I have so many mods now I'm lossing track!!!! I forgot to mention i HAVE a 2bbl. intake and a
Jeff Arnold large turtle. Looks like my dyno #'s are better than Cliff's until he gets that monster motor tuned properly!!!
I'm 265 rwhp and 341 flt. Look at the profile. The only thing missing is MSD, which I don't think will help , elec. fan and UD pulleys.

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping to hear more. Oh well!

Sheffy 2000 RC R/T
I'm in the same boat as you. Here is my list of mods...

- K&N Gen II FIPK
- F&B 50mm Polished Throttle Body
- Mopar M1 2bbl Intake Manifold
- Mopar 1.6 Roller Rockers
- Mopar Headers
- Mopar PCM
- Borla XR-1 Sportsman Muffler
- Exhaust Cut-out
- MSD-6AL Ignition
- MSD Blaster SS Coil
- MSD 8.5mm Wires
- NGK 6097s (2 Step Colder)
- Accel Brass Cap & Rotor
- 4.56 Rear End
- NX EFI Gen-X II System

For the times and dyno numbers in my sig I only had:

- K&N Gen II FIPK
- F&B 50mm Polished Throttle Body
- Mopar M1 2bbl Intake Manifold
- Mopar Headers
- Mopar PCM
- Exhaust Cut-out

With the amount of power you're making you have a 13 second all motor truck. What's the deal? How come you haven't gotten better than a 14.3@96? You should be at least at 13.9@98.

The thing with the R/T heads is that people often think more flow is always best. If you port out the R/T heads all the way and get a mean cam you're not going to make any power until 4K RPMs. If you want to keep it daily driven and feel it on the butt dyno to have fun on the street get the unported R/T heads and stick with a mild cam. 4.56 gears work wonders whether or not you have heads/cam and I would recommend them to anyone. They're awsome.
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2002, 02:28 AM
RT4U2NV RT4U2NV is offline
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Default Re: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliff Foster
It's all coming in due time and Santa Clause is coming to town. I have to make the money for it first and I will probably go to 4.10's and maybe leaing more toward 3.92. I currently have 3.55's with an open face differential. It's got a lot of kick now and I know that I will be pleasantly surprised when I get good gears in it.
Do the 4.56s, they are the best bang for the buck. If you're gonna go through the trouble of swappin' out gears then you might as well make it count. 4.10s and 3.92s are a waste of time for swaps.
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2002, 04:47 AM
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What the heck is a Turtle???

I have yet to modify my truck yet (going to finish the car first), but after reading a lot of these posts I'm thinking the way to go is Intake, exhaust, and nitrous

Later,

Greg
2000 CC R/T
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2002, 10:59 AM
Cliff Foster Cliff Foster is offline
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Default Re: Re: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Quote:
Originally posted by RT4U2NV


Do the 4.56s, they are the best bang for the buck. If you're gonna go through the trouble of swappin' out gears then you might as well make it count. 4.10s and 3.92s are a waste of time for swaps.
Don't forget that this is a daily driver and a 2wd dakota. I want to retain some gas mileage and driveability and I live in Atlanta, GA. Everywhere is freeway and nothing is close. 4.10's would be my limit until I made it a garage monkey and it wasn't my daily. 3.55 to 4.56 is a big jump. I've been told that my stroker will scream up to about 6500rpm. With that charger that I'm gonna get, that will be nice and it will make lots of boost (12psi+).

I hope to get this thing in the 400-450rwhp after I'm done. That is 150hp from where I am now. If tune right, I can get there.
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2002, 11:28 AM
RT4U2NV RT4U2NV is offline
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Default Re: Re: Re: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliff Foster


Don't forget that this is a daily driver and a 2wd dakota. I want to retain some gas mileage and driveability and I live in Atlanta, GA. Everywhere is freeway and nothing is close. 4.10's would be my limit until I made it a garage monkey and it wasn't my daily. 3.55 to 4.56 is a big jump. I've been told that my stroker will scream up to about 6500rpm. With that charger that I'm gonna get, that will be nice and it will make lots of boost (12psi+).

I hope to get this thing in the 400-450rwhp after I'm done. That is 150hp from where I am now. If tune right, I can get there.
This is my daily driver as well. Everyone panics when they see 4.56 but it isn't that bad. They only raise RPMs by about 300 at 70mph. Some actually report an increase in gas mileage and top end pull.
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2002, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Quote:
Originally posted by RT4U2NV


This is my daily driver as well. Everyone panics when they see 4.56 but it isn't that bad. They only raise RPMs by about 300 at 70mph. Some actually report an increase in gas mileage and top end pull.

Yea but you need to remember Ben He is going from 3.55's not 3.92's a lot bigger jump..

Barry
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2002, 07:18 PM
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Sheffy - Go with the 1.92 R/T heads and have them polished and ported to 2.02. The 1.92 ones are cheaper and you will save money still if you have them ported out to 2.02. I have run a 12.83 on all motor and have the 4bbl M-1 with Jon Davis's Progressive Linkage. I have yet to have a dyno pull with the truck, but from the fly wheel I am pulling 425hp and 478 ft. lbs. of torque.


Cliff - Our truck is a daily driver, when we don't have snow on the ground, and I have 4.56 gears and still get 16.5mpg on the Interstate running 70mph. Something that help me get down in the 12's were the gears and we had some 15X8 American Racing Black Wagon Wheels widened to 10 inches. We were spinning the tires on the rim before. I also recommend 28.5X11.5X15 Hoosier Quick Time Pro Slicks. I had MT 26.5X10.5X15 DOT's and had to do a really big burnout to get them sticky, while the Hoosier's all I have to do is haze them and they get real sticky. When we had the 3.92's and the MT's, it gives you a set up like you have 4.10 gears at the track.
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2002, 07:33 PM
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2.02s and 1.92s same price, at least in Canada!!! Let Mopar take the chance on going through a thin spot in the bowls!!!
Salarguy
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2002, 07:28 PM
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Default R/T heads

Thanks for all the responses folks. Reason I'm not in the 13's with all I've done is the track I go to. They do a lousy job of preping the track and the 60"times suffer. I also did not have the 1.7 ratio roller rockers for the last race . I should see 13's at a better track!!!!!!!

Sheffy
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2002, 08:13 PM
salarguy salarguy is offline
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Sheffy
I really hate seeing someone getting wrong info. I normally stick to Ram chat, but I couldn't stand by and have someone ruin a set of great heads. Do not port and polish w/ your mods . Blend the bowls, raise the roof a little, don't touch the floor or walls except to clean up the garbage lumps and knobs. Do not gasket match because the missmatch gives the reversion that helps in a big way. Do not buy the 1.92s. The 2.02s flow better out of the box than 1.92s do with a lot of work.
Converting 1.92s to 2.02s is an expense that could be used to better advantage. Concentrate on equal valve spring installed height. Use the .600 lift Mopar or KRC springs. Hughes is another option. 1.7s are a great benefit, Crowers very user friendly. Good luck and let me know how you make out with this conversion.
Salarguy
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2002, 09:51 PM
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I may go to 4.10's I actually may do that anyway. I make a lot of torque as it is now and I can't even imagine this truck with those gears. Tires will have issues then. Hell, they do now.

Solarguy-Would you have the exhaust ports opened as well. I have a set of 1.92's in the garage and I can see on the exhaust side where the header hit on the head? My 2.02's are intake and exhaust ported.
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  #21  
Old 12-07-2002, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by salarguy
Sheffy
The 2.02s flow better out of the box than 1.92s do with a lot of work. Converting 1.92s to 2.02s is an expense that could be used to better advantage.
Salarguy
Well the guy that built my motor has a different opinion than yours and I think my numbers seem to back him up. He has built a lot of motors and is very respected builder. In the United States the 2.02 are more than the 1.92.
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  #22  
Old 12-08-2002, 12:53 AM
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Dakotart
Look at your mods, then at Sheffy's a big diff huh! KRC have done more Magnum motors than most and dynoed as they went. Marty will tell you that on mild street motors the port's stay close to 'as cast' and that bowl blending and cleaning up the casting flaws yield the most gains. Gasket matching, esp. on the exhaust port's is a no no and can in fact yield losses. Reversion is a good thing. However on a built stroker the rules change, you need to hog them out quite a bit. Always compare apples to apples. You shouldn't advise owners of mild motors to follow your lead on just one mod unless his final goal includes all of your mods and he's willing to put up with losses along the way.
Salarguy
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  #23  
Old 12-08-2002, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by salarguy
Dakotart
Look at your mods, then at Sheffy's a big diff huh! KRC have done more Magnum motors than most and dynoed as they went. Marty will tell you that on mild street motors the port's stay close to 'as cast' and that bowl blending and cleaning up the casting flaws yield the most gains. Gasket matching, esp. on the exhaust port's is a no no and can in fact yield losses. Reversion is a good thing. However on a built stroker the rules change, you need to hog them out quite a bit. Always compare apples to apples. You shouldn't advise owners of mild motors to follow your lead on just one mod unless his final goal includes all of your mods and he's willing to put up with losses along the way.
Salarguy
Dude, you missed my point. If you want the 2.02 R/T Heads the 1.92 Heads are cheaper in the United States and if you port them out to 2.02 you end up with 2.02 Heads with money in your pocket. 1.92 ported to 2.02= 2.02
Oranges to Oranges!
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  #24  
Old 12-08-2002, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by salarguy
Dakotart
....Magnum motors than most and dynoed as they went. Marty will tell you that on mild street motors the port's stay close to 'as cast' and that bowl blending and cleaning up the casting flaws yield the most gains. ...
Salarguy
If you're sticking close to stock port castings, why suggest he even buy the R/T heads at all? Save the money and port the Magnum heads he's got, assuming they are not cracked.

The advantages of the R/T head aren't untilized until you start porting them and you could spend money to re-work your Magnum heads and probably come out ahead in performance and cost savings, especially if you plan just light cleanup on the R/Ts.

I hope you just worded that wrong when you said that yields the most gains with Marty's R/T heads. That depends on your particular set of mods and certainly doesn't hold true in all cases.
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Old 12-08-2002, 01:40 PM
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What is the cost of porting out 1.92's to 2.02? Is it less than the difference of the cost to buy the bigger heads? The price between the 1.92'and the 2.02's can't be that different. maybe two hundred bucks? What does it cost to have the intakes opened up to 2.02?
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Old 12-08-2002, 01:48 PM
Cliff Foster Cliff Foster is offline
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Default Re: R/T heads- Pros and Cons

Quote:
Originally posted by Sheffy
This question is for only those who HAVE R/T heads on a Dak R/T. I have 90 % of the bolt ons with headers and 3" exhaust. I want to add better flowing heads and keep the stock cam. I am 265 RWHP and 341 FLT. Will heads get me any serious gains? Never mind track times! I want real seat of the pants feeling power!!!! So, anyoune out there with all the bolt-ons and a stock cam. Please post dynu #'s if you have them.

Sheffy
2000 RC R/T
14.389 @96.70 mph
I was told that porting and polishing the same heads would give you 30-40hp if that is the only mod. If you are going to a bigger intake head, would that number be even greater?
I was also told to port the exhaust side as well. Does no good to make the air if you can't get it out of the motor. What about the intake. Lot of air in + lot of air out + fuel + spark=HP. Unless my math is wrong. Have you fixed the computer to mix the gases better?
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  #27  
Old 12-08-2002, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliff Foster
What is the cost of porting out 1.92's to 2.02? Is it less than the difference of the cost to buy the bigger heads? The price between the 1.92'and the 2.02's can't be that different. maybe two hundred bucks? What does it cost to have the intakes opened up to 2.02?
I am going by what Jon Davis has told me when I asked him the same question and when I checked the price on the 2.02's, he was right. That is the reason I bought the 1.92's and had him do the work. Cliff, you should give Jon a call and he could answer any of you questions about the magnum motors. He might even have some hints for you on helping reach your goals with your 408. His number is 1-765-348-4386. You can catch him anytime Friday thru Sunday and after 6:30pm CST Monday-Thursday.
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  #28  
Old 12-08-2002, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by white98club


If you're sticking close to stock port castings, why suggest he even buy the R/T heads at all? Save the money and port the Magnum heads he's got, assuming they are not cracked.

The advantages of the R/T head aren't untilized until you start porting them and you could spend money to re-work your Magnum heads and probably come out ahead in performance and cost savings, especially if you plan just light cleanup on the R/Ts.

I hope you just worded that wrong when you said that yields the most gains with Marty's R/T heads. That depends on your particular set of mods and certainly doesn't hold true in all cases.
Well acording to the numbers I saw unworked 202 R/T heads outflowed fully worked stock castings by a considerable margin..

Barry
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  #29  
Old 12-08-2002, 05:57 PM
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Hey guys
I did not say" in all cases" I said ON MILD STREET MOTORS. Marty is one of the most respected Magnum motor gurus alive, and says on KRC's web site "We do not do eye candy on the heads, that is polishing all runners or gasket matching intake and exhaust ports. These have done NOTHING but REDUCE efficiency and velocity in the head, and create turbulence where it did not exist before." " keep the ports small to increase our flow numbers" They do polish on their 600hp race motors for purposes of relieving stress. You'll also see reference to the reversion I mentioned in a previous post. The R/T head is near perfect except for casting lumps and bumps. He also says it's not worth the expense reworking 1.92s when 2.02s flow better anyway. Go to the site www.krcperformance.com and read the whole section on heads you'll be enlightened. Hughes by the way have similar views. Are they both wrong? Some people are suckers for eye candy and are left scratching their heads wondering why no gains or best case scenario, never knowing the full potential of the parts they've spent hard earned money on. Some people also think their mods are best even when dyno charts, and flow benches prove otherwise. TAF
Salarguy
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  #30  
Old 12-08-2002, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trueblue R/T


Well acording to the numbers I saw unworked 202 R/T heads outflowed fully worked stock castings by a considerable margin..

Barry
Barry, fully worked Magnum heads can flow 265-270 cfm on the intakes while a stock set of R/T heads flow somewhere around 225-230 out of the box. Don't know what Marty's heads flow after the simple cleanup, but probably well below that figure.

Hughes used to have flow numbers posted on their site, but they have pulled them down. Delphi forums has some comparison charts in archive if you look for a post from Travis M.
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