Fuel Additives

[cessna]

Would any type of fuel additive be recommended for the 1999 Dodge CTD?

cessna

[peg leg]

ULSD fuel has poor lubricating qualities. 5 PPM versus 500 ppm in LSD. This sulphur lubes the injector pump and injectors.
There are many brands, with Power Service and Howes being popular. Stanadyne is also widely used.
I've used Power Service since day one, and they make two types, one for normal service and one for winter service. I've always used normal service.
The people who rebuild pumps will tell you to always use an additive.

[cessna]

Thanks peg leg. That's what I wanted to know. Are the products you mentioned available at local auto part stores?

cessna

[peg leg]

Has Power Service, and Howes can be found at diesel repair shops and truck stops. It doesn't take much per fillup, so read the suggested amount per gallon. I recall that3 ounces treats 100 gallons, but I always put in 3-4 with anything over a half tank. Can't hurt!

[brian sauser]

Sulfur has no lubrication properties, it is corosive. It is the process to remove the rest of the sulfur to 15 ppm or less that removes some of the lubrication properties. The fuel manufactures add an additive package to bring the fuel back up to the required lubrication spec's that they have had to meet for the last 25 years or so, set by the government. They have had to add lubrication additive at the plant to meet the spec's when they went to 500 ppm diesel years ago.
I have a friend that has run about 650,000 miles combinded on 2 ford diesels pulling a 24 foot enclosed trailer every day for his busness. He runs straight diesel, and mobil/devac oil and has not had any enigne or fuel problems.
I also run straight diesel, no additives and mobil oil in my dodge and have no problems with 150,000 miles on a 2001 diesel. Adding a fuel additive will not hurt anything but I don't think it is needed. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just giving info, so you need to do what you feel you need to do to protect your truck, after all thats what is important, you being happy.

[peg leg]

Do a google search titled "sulphur lubrication properties". The whole story of the importance of the lubrication properties of sulphur are there to read.
Your friends trucks were running on 500PPM sulphur fuel or greater, and therefore had no fuel related failures. ULSD is only mandated for the last few months. The rotary IP's on the Cummins have been shown to have leak problems from ULSd's poor lube properties, as well as all other diesel engines.
The article shows clearly that fuel lubrication additives are critical with ULSD.

[brian sauser]

I did a search, here is the link

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/news/newsrele...rm=lubrication

However, the process used to reduce the sulfur content in diesel also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties, resulting in increased wear on the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system.”


Diesel fuel producers recognize the issues associated with the lower lubricating characteristics of ULSD, so they are including lubricating additives in retail diesel fuel.


To manage the change in the lubricating qualities of diesel fuel, the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) adopted the lubricating specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels,” Nowatzki says. “The ASTM D975 standards specify the minimum lubricating characteristics of No. 1 and No. 2 diesel fuel, but do not specifically address petroleum diesel blends with biodiesel. Also, No. 1 diesel, commonly available during winter in the northern parts of the U.S., generally has less lubricating ability than the higher viscosity No. 2 diesel

[peg leg]

Yes, that's another reason to add fuel lubricants. In fact, in Montana for instance, you cannot even find straight #2 in winter. It's a 50/50 blend of one and two.

[mopar1973man]

As for diesel fuel additives I'm the best man for the job and done a lot of work on this issue...

You might want to visit my web page explaining it...
mopar.mopar1973man.com/2002%20Dodge/Tips%20&%20Tricks/2%20cycle%20oil/2_cycle_oil.htm

Then the HFRR testing of additives... The highier the number the more wear your fuel system takes... So you want the lowest number...
mopar.mopar1973man.com/2002%20Dodge/Tips%20&%20Tricks/2%20cycle%20oil/HFRR/HFRR.htm

Here is the MSDS sheets that shows all HAZMAT chemicals used in the creation of the product. Remember is it toxic to human or animal the chemcal has to be listed here in the MSDS sheets...
mopar.mopar1973man.com/2002%20Dodge/Tips%20&%20Tricks/2%20cycle%20oil/MSDS/MSDS%20Links.htm

Chemical Definitions explaining whats in most products...
mopar.mopar1973man.com/2002%20Dodge/Tips%20&%20Tricks/2%20cycle%20oil/Chemicals/chemicals.htm

Well this is a starter... If you guys got any question I'm here to answer them...

[cessna]

In Arizona, we have to get our vehicles to pass an exhaust emissions test as part of the annual registration process. Since I am new to diesels I think that they are measuring different exhaust emissions for diesels than the do for gassers (O2 maybe).

Does anyone know whether or not adding 2-cycle injection oil to the diesel fuel as a lubricant will have any affect on the exhaust emissions test?

cessna

[peg leg]

Which is not formulated for diesel fuel use will affect the tailpipe readings. Will two stroke oil affect it negatively? I don't know. Two stroke engines have been virtually outlawed in this country for years because of the oil and unburned fuel from their exhaust. Is two stroke oil formulated for diesel fuel use. Absolutely not.

[ehostler]

One of the key emissions that is measured is the amount of particulate matter. Adding 2 stroke oil will only increase the amount of particulate matter.

Do it right and use the correct additives. A good choice is the Stanadyne Performance Formula.

[quote]Performance Formula Features:

Cold Weather Protection - reduces #2 diesel fuel pour point by up to 40°F (22°C) and cold filter plug point by up to 25°F (13°C), depending upon base fuel.

Hot Weather Protection - lubricates and cetane improver help when fuel is hot and "thin".

Increases Horsepower - with up to 5 point cetane gain, resulting in better acceleration, power, etc.

Improves Fuel Economy - independent tests have shown up to 8% improvement in MPG.

Easier and Faster Start-Up - in cold weather, when fuel can gell or very hot conditions, when fuel viscosity is low.

Reduces Smoke and Particulate Emissions - helps pass smoke-meter tests.

Cleans and Protects Injectors and Other Components - detergents and deposit modifiers help remove varnish and other deposits to prevent plugging.

Reduces Wear of Expensive Fuel Systems - lubricants protect against effects of low sulphur fuel.

Upgrades and Stabilizes Fuel - no need to buy expensive "premium" or blended fuel. Keeps fuel fresher and reduces sludge.

Helps Remove Water - special water demulsifier causes tiny water droplets to come out of suspension/emulsion, so the filter/water separator can be more effective.

Alcohol Free - avoids corrosion and accelerated wear.

How to Treat - add before filling.

Storage - room temperature recommended[/qu

[mopar1973man]

Originally Posted by ehostler

One of the key emissions that is measured is the amount of particulate matter. Adding 2 stroke oil will only increase the amount of particulate matter.

Do it right and use the correct additives. A good choice is the Stanadyne Performance Formula.

Yeah but Stanadyne Performance Formula failed the HFRR testing. It will cause more wear to your fuel sytstem that 2 cycle oil will...

Snowmobile 2 cycle oil will also protect down to at low as -20*F as I've tested. I've got others that have gotten as low as -30*F with only 2 cycle oil..

mopar.mopar1973man.com/2002%20Dodge/Tips%20&%20Tricks/2%20cycle%20oil/HFRR/HFRR.htm <- My page on HFRR testing of additives...

dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178848 <- Testing done by dieselplace.com

What good is it to have all these other additives but the additive is causing MORE WEAR because of the solvent chemicals and LACK of lubricants...

So far I've gained roughly 2 MPG in the summer time...

A lot of good reading... It a extremely LONG thread 100+ pages long!
cumminsforum.com/forum/alternative-fuels-additives-oils-lubricants/4054-first-time-w-2stroke-oil.html

Oh if burning clean oil is such a problem then why did Cummins design Centinel??? Maybe you should look it up on Google... Centinel allows a Cummins engine to to burn WEO right from the crankcase... So I doubt you comment above holds any water...

[ehostler]

Maybe the Centinel was actually designed to run on WEO. The Cummins in my truck is not designed to run WEO. So, I'm sure that there is good reason that Cummins says not to run oil in the fuel. And yes, if the engine isn't designed for it, oil produces more particulate matter.

[cessna]

Reading through Mopar1973man's links shows apparently a lot of good results using the 2-cycle oil as an additive. And judging by the HFFR test reports it looks like it provides much better lubrication than many of the other products.

I was hoping that there might be someone in Arizona who uses the 2-cycle oil and can verify that it does not have an adverse effect on the state required emissions test. Since I just bought my first diesel I have not had to take it through the test yet, I don't have first hand knowledge of what it consists of. For gassers, the test measures CO levels, hydrocarbons, and oxides of nitrogen. However, I think that for a diesel the do not measure these parameters; but, the test consists of measuring the opacity (smoke density) of the exhaust plume.

cessna

[peg leg]

would anyone use an oil that is not specifically formulated for diesel fuel? What is wrong with using fuel additives designed for diesel fuel? Two stroke oil is pure hydrocarbon stock. Diesel additives are hydrocarbon stock with nonpoluting lubricating additives and modifiers to meet current EPA rules. Why are we picking the fly specs out of the pepper? Use the right stuff!

[cessna]

The only reason that I am curious about the 2-cycle oil is that if you believe the HFFR testing report that mopar1973man links many of the commonly used additives apparently do not live up to their advertising claims. I am curently using the Power Service per your recommendation; but, find all of the good reports on the 2-cycle oil interesting. Mixed in the relative weak concentrations recommended I don't see how it can harm the engine; but, adding the oil may cause the engine to fail emissions.

cessna

[namvet67a1f]

HOW about all the ATF containers in the trash-cans by the D pumps at the larger truck stops ?

SOMEONE is using this ATF for lubing-the-injectors !

[ehostler]

Again, they are great lubricants. That is all. Unless your engine was designed to burn those oils and have a DPF behind the cat, you will produce more particulate matter. On a vehicle that is required to go through a test, this may cause a problem. The last time I looked, the big trucks weren't required to go through emissions testing.

[Joe Mc]

I use Power Service and about 8 oz of ATF each fill up. 165k still on original VP knock on wood . . .