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  #1  
Old 07-22-2010, 11:12 AM
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Question Ever installed a K&N filter?

I just did this morning on my 04 Ram Diesel. It was just the drop in factory replacement. It came already oiled, so I could have held off buying the oil and cleaning kit, instructions say you only do that ever 50K miles.
I haven't ran it yet, plan to here shortly. I'm not expecting much, but even 1 mpg better is significant when your vehicle is right in the 15 to 17 mpg range or less.
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:32 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stoga View Post
I just did this morning on my 04 Ram Diesel. It was just the drop in factory replacement. It came already oiled, so I could have held off buying the oil and cleaning kit, instructions say you only do that ever 50K miles.
I haven't ran it yet, plan to here shortly. I'm not expecting much, but even 1 mpg better is significant when your vehicle is right in the 15 to 17 mpg range or less.
every 50K sounds too long!
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post
every 50K sounds too long!
I thought so too, I expect it'll get the bare minimum fall and spring checkover I always do, just don't need to toss the filter this time.
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Old 07-22-2010, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Stoga View Post
I just did this morning on my 04 Ram Diesel. It was just the drop in factory replacement. It came already oiled, so I could have held off buying the oil and cleaning kit, instructions say you only do that ever 50K miles.
I haven't ran it yet, plan to here shortly. I'm not expecting much, but even 1 mpg better is significant when your vehicle is right in the 15 to 17 mpg range or less.
It really depends on the environment you are driving in. If it's pure highway miles, with no dirt roads or other dirty environments then maybe, but I don't see the reasoning in not keeping it as clean as possible... Oh and if you want to bring up your mileage, the best thing you can do is get an aftermarket ring and pinion set, and if it's a 4x4 then get a free spin hub kit for it... However it would take a lot of saved fuel to justify either one of those... In 2003 they changed the gear ratios so that the highest ratio you can get is 3.73, while it is great for towing or performance that gear is way too low for everyday cruising. The aftermarket companies have since supplied a 3.42 and 3.55 ratio's for the new axles. My 2001 4x4, has an Auto, 3.55 gears, and 285/75/16 Mud Tires and I get 21-23mpg empty and 16 to 18mpg towing my heavy race truck and 20 or a little better with my light one... Anyways hope this answers someone's question about why the mileage went to junk on the later generation cummins....
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Old 07-22-2010, 06:52 PM
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Many diesel owners do not recommend using a K&N. They may flow air, but they do not filter as well. You have to protect the turbo with the most efficient filter you can get. There has also been some debate about the oil used on K&N air filters affecting some of the sensors. It's been a while since I've read up on it so I don't recall all the details. But after doing a lot of research and reading in the diesel forums before getting my 2004.5 diesel in the spring of 2005, K&N wasn't on my list of products to use on it.

Personally, I use Amsoil's synthetic Ea air filters along with their other products. But check around yourself.

http://www.thelubepage.com/amsoil-sy...bypass-filters

My truck kept getting better mileage until around 30k. I was towing, but taking it easy. People always said to run it hard to break it in quick. Synthetic oils front to back and a modified stock or aftermarket air filter housing/system will help mileage. Towing I pick up as much as 2 mpg at 55-60 as opposed to 70-72 mph!
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:28 PM
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I've always questioned K&N's ability to filter. They really don't flow any more air. We flowed replacement air filters in a stock silverado air box on a Superflow SF1020 when I was in college. They all flowed about the same. I also saw a magazine article in Hot Rod magazine that did a similar test but using round style air filters. With similar results.

We did not test filtration or flow after a certain amount of miles. I believe that the paper filter would flow less than the K&N. Either due to superior filtration of the paper filter or the K&N's ability to store what it filtered better.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:04 AM
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I've been planning to get a free hub spin kit for it, if some of you know of one that you'd recommend, I'd appreciate it.
I checked the mpg on the trip tonight, it dropped from mid 16s to to 15.7 or so mpg. However, that could just be due to some of the intown driving that I did, idling in traffic. No large change in fuel mileage or performance that I could detect. I'll check again over the next several tankfuls. The truck has 105,318 miles currently.
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Old 07-23-2010, 06:49 AM
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You won't see much of a difference in mpgs or horsepower with a K&N. If the original filter was designed to be way undersize and didn't flow enough air to start with, maybe. But what auto company these days would design something like that? Also if the original filter was clogged, then you'll see an improvement.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:13 AM
cudabob496 cudabob496 is offline
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http://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340_GTS View Post
You won't see much of a difference in mpgs or horsepower with a K&N. If the original filter was designed to be way undersize and didn't flow enough air to start with, maybe. But what auto company these days would design something like that? Also if the original filter was clogged, then you'll see an improvement.
Seen several dyno runs in mags where a K&N adds about 10 hp.
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:14 AM
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Default K&n

Make good strainers, poor filters.
Running a new K&N in 2000 in Montana, we had terrible forest fires all summer.
I was doing regular maintenance on my Cummins, and saw a great deal of soot on the turbine wheel. I pulled the K&N, cleaned the pressure wheel and installed an Amsoil filter. Same mileage later, and I had zero soot on the wheel.
I now run the dry Amsoil filter with equal results. No wheel contamination.
Any turbine assisted diesel requires super clean air. K&N cannot provide that.
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post
Seen several dyno runs in mags where a K&N adds about 10 hp.
10 h.p. on a 1000 h.p. engine or on a 100 h.p. engine? There is a big difference! Even K&N says that they see only up to 4% more h.p. I'm sure that in some cases slight improvements are made. But the magazines with big K&N advertising content are obviously going to get better test numbers!
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340_GTS View Post
10 h.p. on a 1000 h.p. engine or on a 100 h.p. engine? There is a big difference! Even K&N says that they see only up to 4% more h.p. I'm sure that in some cases slight improvements are made. But the magazines with big K&N advertising content are obviously going to get better test numbers!
Well, I got a 600 hp 496, so 4% gets me 24hp! And the cold air induction on my engine gets me at least 5% (for a 50 degree drop in carb inlet temp), so thats another 30 hp!
Voila!! 54 cheapy horsepower!!

You take a 500 cu in engine to 6500rpm, I don't think a paper filter will cut it!!
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post
You take a 500 cu in engine to 6500rpm, I don't think a paper filter will cut it!!

500 CI spinning at 6500 rpm

500 x (6500/2)= 1,625,000 Cubic Inches per Minute

1728 CI = 1 Cubic Foot

1,625,000/1728 = 940.39 Cubic Feet per Minute

A standard 14" x 4" paper filter flows over 1000 CFM (As tested by Hot Rod Magazine I believe it was).

So you'd have to turn that 500 CI to over 6900 rpm to flow 1000 CFM.

This all assuming 100% VE which without a forced air induction I don't think your gonna achieve on a wedge engine.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:58 PM
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Once bring up the below site, click on filter selection:

http://www.aptfast.com/KN_Additional..._facts.htm#top
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:58 PM
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It's great that places are trying to sell K&N filters and make some money. I'm ok with that, but I'm not gonna use them and I'm not trying to sell them.

Look here for an independent test of different filters. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

He claims that the K&N filter does flow better 0.14% better. At 1000 CFM that's 1.4 CFM. And that's pretty much what I've seen by actually flowing the filters myself through a stock '99 silverado air box and also by the article I read 10 years ago when they compared 14"x4" round filters. They all flowed about the same. Infact in that magazine article the paper filter outflowed the K&N.

The filter isn't where they make more HP it's the smooth/cold air intake systems that they sell.
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  #17  
Old 07-24-2010, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoga View Post
I've been planning to get a free hub spin kit for it, if some of you know of one that you'd recommend, I'd appreciate it.
I checked the mpg on the trip tonight, it dropped from mid 16s to to 15.7 or so mpg. However, that could just be due to some of the intown driving that I did, idling in traffic. No large change in fuel mileage or performance that I could detect. I'll check again over the next several tankfuls. The truck has 105,318 miles currently.
Well Dynatrac makes it and is great, however they are at like 2 Grand for their kit... The one that I have been looking at is from EMS Offroad, their kit is like $500, cheaper and has the ABS built into the hubs, and everything ready to go, I've heard good reviews on their products as well...
http://www.emsoffroad.com/store/inde...roducts_id=330
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JVMopar View Post
It's great that places are trying to sell K&N filters and make some money. I'm ok with that, but I'm not gonna use them and I'm not trying to sell them.

Look here for an independent test of different filters. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

He claims that the K&N filter does flow better 0.14% better. At 1000 CFM that's 1.4 CFM. And that's pretty much what I've seen by actually flowing the filters myself through a stock '99 silverado air box and also by the article I read 10 years ago when they compared 14"x4" round filters. They all flowed about the same. Infact in that magazine article the paper filter outflowed the K&N.

The filter isn't where they make more HP it's the smooth/cold air intake systems that they sell.
Well, if paper outflows an oil-gauze filter, then hats off to K&N, who has fooled almost the entire world performance market, because there are few performance engines on the street/strip that would run a paper filter.
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rampage_82 View Post
Well Dynatrac makes it and is great, however they are at like 2 Grand for their kit... The one that I have been looking at is from EMS Offroad, their kit is like $500, cheaper and has the ABS built into the hubs, and everything ready to go, I've heard good reviews on their products as well...
http://www.emsoffroad.com/store/inde...roducts_id=330
Thanks! This is what I've had in mind. Luckily the bearings in my front end were changed not that long ago, so I've got time before I HAVE to either make a change or stick with what I have. Assuming you have to change the original bearings, that is. Much appreciated!
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cudabob496 View Post
Well, if paper outflows an oil-gauze filter, then hats off to K&N, who has fooled almost the entire world performance market, because there are few performance engines on the street/strip that would run a paper filter.
The proof is in the pudding. You can not compare apples and watermellons.

Many NHRA stock eliminator competitors have tried and proven the K&N myth to be false. There is definately a performance loss with the k&n top flow type filter in class regulated racing. Track testing is where it's really at. The dyno is NOT the real world when racing. You have to put rubber to the road, with timing equipment!

aarracer
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Old 07-24-2010, 03:00 PM
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OK, K&N and other oil/gauze filters are a myth regarding performance, and paper filters are the way to go! We've settled it here, on Mopar Chat!
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  #22  
Old 07-24-2010, 09:23 PM
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Take the K&N junk back and get an AFE. The K&N filters do a horrible job of filtering.

If you want to gain MPG and a little power, go with the AFE stage 2 with pro gaurd 7. It replace the factory filter box and tube. The air flow is much smoother and allows more air to be sucked in.
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Old 07-24-2010, 10:17 PM
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I have to correct myself. While I couldn't find the artice from Hot Rod Magazine and their air filter flow and dyno tests. I did find online a reference to it and the 14"x3" purolator paper filter flowed 2,518 cfm.

The Hot Rod Magazine would have been 2002 or 2003.
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:58 PM
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There is alot of info for and against K&N filters on your truck, im with the latter. Most of the dyno results that show big hp gains are the intake systems not filter alone, pure diesel performance has a good tech service line to pick someones brain. Get a good s&b air box that seals out heat, eliminate the turbo silincer, open the exhaust,and get a tuner my 05 common rail six speed,3.73 gear with these mods (tuner is a smarty jr) full fuel load and 75 degree or warmer days ac on average 20-21 mpg. thats at the pump not the overhead disply ! also keep a good fuel filter and have your fuel pressure checked, these trucks can have an injector going bad and not let you know till its too late.
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rampage_82 View Post
It really depends on the environment you are driving in. If it's pure highway miles, with no dirt roads or other dirty environments then maybe, but I don't see the reasoning in not keeping it as clean as possible... Oh and if you want to bring up your mileage, the best thing you can do is get an aftermarket ring and pinion set, and if it's a 4x4 then get a free spin hub kit for it... However it would take a lot of saved fuel to justify either one of those... In 2003 they changed the gear ratios so that the highest ratio you can get is 3.73, while it is great for towing or performance that gear is way too low for everyday cruising. The aftermarket companies have since supplied a 3.42 and 3.55 ratio's for the new axles. My 2001 4x4, has an Auto, 3.55 gears, and 285/75/16 Mud Tires and I get 21-23mpg empty and 16 to 18mpg towing my heavy race truck and 20 or a little better with my light one... Anyways hope this answers someone's question about why the mileage went to junk on the later generation cummins....
that's close to what my 07 with the 5.9 quadcab 2wd gets around 20-22 running 70-80 my dad's 06 megacab gets the same as you on highway..
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Old 08-08-2010, 05:46 PM
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I have a 05 Ram with 670,000 miles and only replaced the water pump, and injectors (at 605,000 miles) and run a K&N since new no problems. I clean the filter when the service meter pop's up.
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:59 PM
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we use to run my dad's cuda at a track that required air filters for safety reasons or whatnot, and with a paper filter it turned 10:70s, dropped in a k&n the next weekend and it turned 10:60s only thing changed was the filter, because the first weekend we went to the new track the tech told us we needed an air filter to run so i ran to the parts store down the street and grabbed what i saw that would work, the following week i took more time and found a k&n that would fit, and picked up a 10th of a second so tell me that doesn't mean something
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