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  #1  
Old 03-13-2002, 02:04 PM
dizuster dizuster is offline
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Location: waterford, mi usa
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Default Lots of good tech ?'s for engine guys! (w-5 info? indy info? max hp stock block?)

I just bought a set of w-5 heads with t&d rocker gear for a 408" motor. Does anybody really know how good these heads are? Seems that not too many people run them. I am debating between just a good valve job, and a bowl blend, vs. a full port job. I can't really find out how good they are flow # or power wise. Anybody have experience with them? Also does anybody know if the new indy small block intake fits on a w-5 head? I know the regular m-1 isn't that great, but is the w-5 much different? Also anybody have any idea how much power you can make on a stock 360 block (.030 over) without breaking it? I plan on filling the block half way with hardblock. Also anybody ever used that method on the street before? Do you have to put more piston to wall clearance in it? how's cooling on the street? I think I should be able to get a 3300lbs. car (with driver) with a 10.5:1 comp. 4.56, 4600 stahl 904, .650 roller cam. w 252°@.050 into the 10's but what do you think?

I'd appreciate any info anybody could give me!

thanks,
dizuste
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Old 03-13-2002, 09:15 PM
moeflo moeflo is offline
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Wish I could give you specifics, but haven't messed with any. but by just "checking them out, they do have alot of potential. The chamber is nice, and the off-set rockers on a motor the size of yours, I feel are a must. I can't recall the "out-of-th-box" flow numbers, other than they aren't great. If you can stand it, I think a good port job is needed. It's a good choice, though as the head can be made to feed your motor well. Check on some of the W2 intake offerings. I think they share the same bolt-pattern, and they are designed around that push-rod area being "taken care of".
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2002, 06:41 AM
SB Racer SB Racer is offline
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Cool Been there done that

Congratulations you've made a great purchase. I used W5's for years and heres what I got. Disassembled the heads the day they arrived. Mopars seatwork was unacceptable and the intake port castings pretty rough and so. I switched the valves into smaller stem dia, longer to get some installed height for .670" roller and 2.08" intakes, polished the ports and ported that hardened seatring for smoother entering into the pocket. Originally it hanged over the pocket really bad, that'll hurt the intake side at least.So not a really port job but simple cleaning.

After that they flowed 290cfm already at .550" and remained there. (28inch.of.w) I had a M1 singleplane, 12.4:1 CR, 1 7/8 headers along that compcams roller. PG + 8 3/4 with 4.30:1 ratio and it took my 65 Valiant deep into tens, 2800 lbs me included.

Since your combo is bigger than my former 360 you should get your desired goal even with more "fat" in there ;=) A one special option over iron heads was that I managed to explode 3 engines under these heads and they were always fixable. W2's wouldn't survive the first one. BTW I was told that W5's flow 245cfm out of the box at .600" but I actually don't believe they are that poor...

Good luck with your project!

TeRo
http://www.paalupaikka.com/racevaliant
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2002, 02:12 PM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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W5s were a good upgrade over the W2 head. Out of the box they didn't look that great or flow that well either. If I had them I would change to 11/32" valve stems, offset the intake away from the exhaust and use a 2.100" intake valve. 1.600" exhausts are probably OK. A fully ported set w/ 2.100" and 1.600" will flow about 320CFM @.700". Out of the box with bowl work they flow about 270. So there's a good bit of potential. The standard W2 intake will fit on the W5. The ports have the same centerline.

Let me give you little bit of history. The W5 head was brought out to put Mopar into Nascar Supertruck racing. Problem was they couldn't flow enough to compete with GM raised port 18 degree heads. There were a few(very few) sets of a W6 cast. They had raised runners(very large ports), were a ten head bolt design and used the standard five bolt rocker arm shaft mounting design. I don't think they ever made it to the track. The stock type shaft rocker design was the weakness. They were a good head flow wise. I had a set, sold them to the west coast several years ago. Joey Arrington had several sets of aluminum heads cast for Supertruck racing. They looked like your W5s except the intake and exhaust were raised 3/4". They flowed well(in the 345CFM range). And they used the Jesel/T&D eight bolt attaching system. He got them approved by Nascar and that head was used the first two years of the series. They used a twelve degree valve angle(Nascar didn't like that) Then the W7 and later the W8 head (both Nascar approved fifteen degree valve angle) came along and they were used until 2001 when the P7 head came into being. Hope I didn't tell you more than you wanted to know!

About the blocks. The standard 340-360 will stand about 600HP on an oval track, probably 650 on a drag strip. They flex so much the center main bearing web cracks. You can retro fit four bolt caps to the standard block and that helps. Hard Blok also helps. You can fill about 2" without any water temp problems. If you fill further you can get cylinder wall flex problems. If you are going to build a serious engine(and those W5s can give you the HP) I would purchase an "R" block. They are far more rigid, have beefy four bolt mains and would handle just about anything your heads dish out. Depending upon what components you already have, and unless you plan to turn the engine past 8500RPM I would stay with the 59 degree lifter bores. 48 degree blocks are nice but be prepared to spend some money on components. The camshaft/lifters don't interchange and there is no provision for standard type rocker oiling.
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  #5  
Old 03-14-2002, 07:44 PM
moeflo moeflo is offline
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I was sort of waiting for you to introduce the details, Sanborn.
How's the heavy-head class motor coming?
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2002, 09:17 PM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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Moeflo, you mean the "stock" W2 head engine. Sorta got stopped on that one at least temporarily. Seems the local track has specifically outlawed that one(Well, I was sorta stretching the rules). But, we have a legal alternate ready(in another car). Got rained out last weekend. Won't be able to race this weekend. Maybe the week after.
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Old 03-14-2002, 09:19 PM
dizuster dizuster is offline
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just to add also, the heads now have undercut stem 3/8" manley SS valves. they are only 2.02 1.60 though. Think its a better idea to spend the money on 2.08 valves rather then a whole bunch of port work if I'm on a limited budget?
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2002, 11:01 PM
moeflo moeflo is offline
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Sanborn. Rules, I believe, were made for stretching. So which type head/motor are you going back with? Did you ever get to the testing stage with the w2? Knowing your orgional plan for the w-2, what intake lift were/did you arrive at?

It's a shame, in a way, as in a " stock casting" arena, a w2 can be a very good combination.
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2002, 08:54 AM
sanborn sanborn is offline
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dizuster, If you budget is tight(isn't everyone's) then you would be best to go to the 2.08" intake.

Moeflo, we went back with a 4.02"X 3.58" 360 engine. Is has an "X" block, early W2 heads, 2.02"intakes, 1.60" exhausts. The engine had been built several years ago by a well known builder in this area. The engine had a bad reputation for reliability. After going through it I can see why. It had good parts, just the clearances, tolerances, general lack of thoughtfullness was surprising. Spent a lot of time (machine work, fabrication) getting the engine as it should be.
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