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  #181  
Old 01-31-2003, 10:51 PM
mrmopar413 mrmopar413 is offline
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Default wanted Indy or Zeeker heads for 440 Dodge

Billy, what is it you are trying to run in your dragster? If it's throttle stop comp, all the heads are the same. You can only go 8.90 so 1000 hp is not that important. It's the two lights that get you to the next round.
Now if your running a fast bracket class where these racers had rather be shot than on a stop, the 440-1's are great.
We run a r.e.dragster here in Baytown Tx. It's alcohol injected with a hat. Two years ago we ran a 452" and it flew. 7.79 @ 174. This was with the mild porting from Indy, and a small cam.
Now we have a 572" and still run the 440-1's, but have had them maxed out, added bigger valves, springs, etc, etc. I'm putting it together next week.
Let's here what your plans are with the car. At least it dose not have doors, LOL ( bet that one will get a response). B-1 Ken are you out there. Were talking about your doors, your throttle stop, and your B-1's. Chime in here. Billy needs input.

Gary
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  #182  
Old 01-31-2003, 11:34 PM
hotrod7043 hotrod7043 is offline
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ken the only reason is is what he wants to spend as far as the parts required is all and the good rocker gear for a ooriginal head
ia kinda costly, i also said as other guys have the440-*1 indy head seems alittle over kil on smaller motors and i think ported 6s are better than there sr head.any b1 piece is the best overr a indy deal, like my cylinder head guy said try se what they do and then send them back over the winter and ill port them, just trying to see him get the most for his money ken. and does the Bs require a special piston ken?
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  #183  
Old 01-31-2003, 11:36 PM
hotrod7043 hotrod7043 is offline
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and would you guys in tx take keeny teer back.cal dont need him
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  #184  
Old 01-31-2003, 11:45 PM
b-1ken b-1ken is offline
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With 13 pages of posts I think he's got plenty of input! Hey, I don't mind the shots about T-Stops, doors & whatever. I'm just doing this until it's time to go racing. I enjoy kicking the Mopar bee hive, to see what flys out. If I get stung once in a while, what the hell, it's all in fun. I think I've earned the right, since I've been running these boat anchors since 1965.
Ken B.
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  #185  
Old 02-01-2003, 12:45 AM
mrmopar413 mrmopar413 is offline
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Default wanted indy or zeeker heads for a 440 dodge

Ken
We defiantly have 13 pages of different ideas to look thur.
We are having what our track calls the Pro Stock Super Bowl Saturday. Several of the cars ran 6.79's today. There'll also be pro mods, fuel Harleys, and all three super classes.
Weather tommorow is mostly sunny low 52 high 64 50 % to low 70% humidity, and a big old fat baromitor 30.28. We usually have 150 to 200 cars kicking off our season at this event. I'm like a 53 year old kid waiting on santa.
Think I'll go to bed, so it will hurry up and get here.

I'll have details later.
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  #186  
Old 02-01-2003, 12:50 AM
Kevin Garceau Kevin Garceau is offline
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Please dont tease me.....If I left now I could be in your driveway by morning....if I drove real fast....no way now that I think about it, not even close.

aaaahhhh racing, sevaral more months....hoping to be out in indiana in end of march, but that is still a 10 hour tow!
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  #187  
Old 02-01-2003, 06:33 AM
Magnum440 Magnum440 is offline
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Billy, does this mean the Zeekers are out?
From what you write, I infer that you want ALOT of power..not only that..but you want enuff power to put yourself on a level playing field with the chebbie boys!
The closest thing we have to that is the B1-TS,but you will need at least a hemi block for them. If you have a hemi block, I would just get some Stage V Engineering hemi heads. If all you have is B or RB block, then I would consider the NRC heads. All three heads will flow over 500 CFM.

So, you have to decide WHICH is the most bang for buck for YOU.
IMO, the cheapest($$$)way to go would be an MP mega-block and NRC heads.

If you can make the power YOU want, with B1 Originals, then that would be the next step back from the current canted valve and hemi state-of-the art heads. JMO
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  #188  
Old 02-01-2003, 08:33 AM
KM KM is offline
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Yes, Magnum,

Thats the only way to talk !

Hemi = StageV
RB = NRC

Everyone of us has started somewhere and everyone of us thinks about all the time how to get faster.
We usually take little steps at the time but ALLWAYS want to go faster.
I whole heartidly agree what Magnum440 somewhat said :
Leave those middle steps away and get StageV or NRC heads now so there is one place which needs NO upgrades in the future

Kimmo
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  #189  
Old 02-01-2003, 10:57 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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Personally, I wouldn't be the forst one to try new combos. I think it's best to leave them for the money men to sort out to see the real world potential before spending my cash. But who am I to talk here among the Pro's; I'm going to a milder combo!
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  #190  
Old 02-01-2003, 11:24 AM
Billy Humphrey Billy Humphrey is offline
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Default Indy, B1 or perhaps (NRC)

mrmopar413,
Sorry I should have given facts about my car & what my intentions are at
the start. My dragster is still new. It had less than 30 runs before I
had to battle cancer, which after 3 years, I am in remission. The car
was built with the intention to run very fast. I am going to run Quick
16 and the fast Brackets. They only have 3 super-comp races in my
area a year, Atlanta Dragway -Commerce, GA; Montgomery Dragway
Montgomery, AL; & Silver Dollar Raceway- Reynolds, GA. These are
all NHRA tracks. When they are not running National & Divisional
events, they run big money bracket events. Plus we have several
unsanctioned tracks that are very good tracks. When we built the
headers for the car we built them for the 440-1 heads. The car has
the ATI convertor & transmission with the super gear set. It has the
9-inch rearend with the Lenco aluminum center section with the big
pinion & pro gears with strange axles. The car & the tracks I run can
handle all the power I can make. I would like to make 775 -800 hp. To
achieve that hp level with the 440-1 or B1 they will have to be max
ported. At what that will cost I can also purchase a set of NRC's.
Reading all the posts of flow numbers has got me interested in the
numbers as well. With either of those heads I will have to use a Stoker
kit to get the cu in Since I have been racing since the 70's, I want to be
the fastest. The 440-1's & B1's seem fairly close to each other.
According to flow numbers, the NRC maybe superior. With the
numbers so close it is hard to determine which is the best. Which way
would everyone go? Thank everyone for your input it is very helpful.
Billy
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  #191  
Old 02-01-2003, 01:15 PM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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I believe the B1's have considerably more potential than the Indys. NRC heads are propably very good, but they'll end up costing as much as the B1/TS and a lot of "custom" parts are required on both. Not necessarily good or easy if something fails. Indys would propably be the easiest, and the power goal can be achieved pretty easy. I got 780 hp out of mine with a <.7" cam and pump gas. Five years with same valve springs so far and peak power already at 6600 rpm with monstrous low end torque. One exotic possibility more would be Brewer heads that have very good flow out of small port area. I wouldn't stare at the flow numbers only, a big straight port will flow well, but will not necessarily make power accordingly. That seems to be especially true with the Hemis for some reason
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  #192  
Old 02-01-2003, 11:32 PM
J-BODY J-BODY is offline
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Wow! Lots of killer combos here and I don't think I've ever seen anyone wave the Stage VI flag this high before. I've had VI's on my car since around 92-93. There wasn't much choice back in those days of RB building and the VI was pretty much the cheapest choice of them all (I was only a student at the time). Even Muscle Motors (back in the day) highly recommended them. They also used to campaign a Daytona with a stage VI engine on board. Anyone know what that was running? Would I suggest anyone buying them today? Probably not. Better choices for less money out there now. It is fun to run hard with them though as they are perceived my many as a "junk head".
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  #193  
Old 02-02-2003, 04:35 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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I know. For junk heads they seem to run pretty well. I purchased a set too in '93. It was of the great 1991 vintage I ported them myself before theere was any templates available, and they worked pretty good. After eight years of use we finally got the 451 dynoed, and it put out 649 hp at 6000 rpm. And of course on pump gas. At that point the heads were in a severe need of rebuild, and that's what we did. Did some additional porting too + 2.20 intake valves and a new 499 short block. Newer got it run in to it's full potential, but still the 3100 lbs Valiant run a best of 10.15 at 130+ mph. Currently switching to B1's, it will be nice to see how it works out since there seems to be about zero experience of the B1's on pump gas.
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  #194  
Old 02-07-2003, 12:53 PM
Billy Humphrey Billy Humphrey is offline
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Default Indy heads

Mrmopar413, or others with good advice,
Talking with a man about a 592 cu in B1 engine it makes big hp and I
can't build one for the price he is offering for his. It is alcohol injected
with a hat. Mrmopar413 since you run one of these, would you
recommend it? I have seen several with carbs. converted to alcohol.
And one with the injector stacks. They had trouble starting when the
engine was cold and had to run the engine as little as possible. The
oil had to be changed after each race because it had a milky look
from the alcohol getting into it. Has anyone thought about buying
outdated parts from the alcohol racers? You could lower the drive
of the blowers & still make a lot of hp. A man who sales a lot of
these parts said with a mild setup you could get about 125 runs before
changing the bearings. That is about the life of a set of alum. rods.
Thanks,
Billy
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  #195  
Old 02-07-2003, 02:04 PM
hotrod7043 hotrod7043 is offline
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Mr jbody the so called junk heads the stg6 actualy flow some good air i have sen these heads work as good or better than Srs and 440-1 ihave a452 at 300lbs goin10.30s al day long at 1800ft altitude afriend has been 9.842135. in a foot brake 65 belv thats3400lbs 446 high deck so i agree with you and muscle motors daytons ran 8.20s we also have a 440 datona up here thats been 8. 40s with 6s and it even had a 620 mopar flat tappet in it.so these heads arent junkm and yes iwould go with b1bs or original B1 before anything else cause of the cost of 6s
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  #196  
Old 02-08-2003, 06:13 PM
monkeyshusband monkeyshusband is offline
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I have Been hearing good things about Edelbrocks heads.
You might want to talk to Mr. Hughes at www.hughesengines.com. He is very honest and knowlegable,
and will give you the staight poop! He does a lot of head work and does a lot of flow testing on several brands of heads !
Good luck !
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  #197  
Old 02-15-2003, 02:30 PM
Billy Humphrey Billy Humphrey is offline
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Default Indy heads

I was talking to a man who is involved with professional racing with
Mopars, he said Mopar was coming out with two new versions of
the Stage VI heads. They would still have the original Stage VI heads.
The next step up would be equal to the 440-1 & B1 heads. The
third phase would flow even better. hotrod7043 & DartGT56, since
you both run these, what have you heard? I am happy to see Mopar
making much long overdue improvements.

Billy
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  #198  
Old 02-15-2003, 03:13 PM
Magnum440 Magnum440 is offline
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That would be an agressive move on MP's part...but I would'nt hold my breath. They have a habbit of announcing stuff they wont have ready for a year or two.
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  #199  
Old 02-16-2003, 08:37 PM
moeflo moeflo is offline
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Chapman racing heads has it's own head, avaliable, only thru Mopar. They is using the stage VI name, but, this one, has nothing in common with the mopar version. 5.400" OAL valve, etc. But it's been around awhile. Very nice piece.
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  #200  
Old 02-21-2003, 05:14 PM
Billy Humphrey Billy Humphrey is offline
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Default Indy heads

monkeyshusband,
I finally got around to getting in touch with Hughes today. I was
surprised about what he had to say about the Edelbrock heads.
He said with the Stage 3 porting they were capable of making
700 to 750 hp but with the Stage 3 porting that doubles the
original price of the heads.
Thanks,
Billy
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  #201  
Old 03-02-2003, 06:51 PM
smokindatires smokindatires is offline
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Bill, from what I've gathered with talking to head porters and folks who have worked with the Edelbrock heads is that they are good for 305-310cfm @28" H20 when max ported. You're not the only one to be told the inflated figures that Hughes advertises. The Edelbrock heads MAY make 700hp on a 14:1 alcohol engine with a solid roller,but that is about the only way I could see it other than a blower or nitrous.

Rob
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  #202  
Old 03-02-2003, 07:53 PM
Billy Humphrey Billy Humphrey is offline
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Default Indy heads

smokindatires,
I agree with you. That seems a little high, given the Edelbrock have
the small ports & valve. But I talked with a tech at Hughes & he said
with the stage 3 porting they would make 700 hp. But that raises
the price of the heads to $2,600.00. Even at that, it would just be the
starting point for the 440-1's & B1's. I have given a lot of thought
to the NRC heads but they have not been track proven yet. It is
decision making time for me. Everyone seems loyal to the heads
they are running.

Billy
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  #203  
Old 03-02-2003, 08:17 PM
smokindatires smokindatires is offline
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The NRC heads would be great if you have a Megablock and 10k laying around for the heads,intake and valvetrain.I dont have either one,lol.

Rob
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  #204  
Old 03-03-2003, 10:37 PM
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rtdonell1 rtdonell1 is offline
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what would be the best bang for the buck on a board out 383? and how far can you bor a 383 without losing to mutch wall strenght?
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  #205  
Old 03-03-2003, 11:32 PM
moeflo moeflo is offline
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Billy, I can promise you, I'm not going to favor one over the other, because I'm running it, (untill somebody pays me to).

And, this has gone on so long, that I don't recall, your exact intentions(rpm, engine size, etc...)

but, at a street/strip level, edelbrocks is a better value than a stage VI reasonable effort ported:305-315 cfm

SR's, same money as stage VI, alot more potential. the best piece if you don't want to trash existing rockers.reasonable ported: 350 cfm

it seems the BS lacks enough rocker offset to be in the same league with the Indy -1, but should have more potential than the SR, with the added expense of the rockers ..reasonable effort ported: 350-370 cfm

The -1 Indys, can support enough motor to dry up most peoples pockets(452's can dry mine)reasonable effort ported:360-385 cfm

The B1 will make alot of power, but from this level up, you throw away your pistons, rockers, etc reasonable effort ported:380-400cfm

I believe the Brewers are a better piece than a B1, from this point reasonable is not a consideration

Unfortunately, this handy little list refers to ported pieces, as I never came across a head that couldn't benefit alot from it. My limited scope is to judge, as best as possible, the potential in a package/casting.

I, like you , would be a little concerned about jumping on board with a new "everything specific" design, that you're not even sure will be around next year.

But, if i was looking min cash for 700 hp, i'd gol with SR's, nicely ported. Hughs may(or may not) get 700 N/A hp from Edelbrocks, but things are getting a bit thin, if they are. The valves are too short in the stage VI, and edelbrocks to consider them at this level, unless rules mandated.

Much above 750, or so, I'd look, in steps, starting with BS, and up. Part of the deal to not be forgotten, is to have a sturdy head at the HP level you choose.
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  #206  
Old 08-15-2010, 03:00 AM
kelbigd kelbigd is offline
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Default Zeek

Met Zeek and was able to call him a friend about four years before he passed. Great man! He was extremely smart in his MOPAR knowledge and I will stand behind his head design over any other.... Hands down! Raced a 70 Challenger R/T (440 mag) and a 72 Cuda (340 purple shaft). Rest my friend!
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  #207  
Old 08-15-2010, 03:28 AM
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Biggrin

You posted in a 7 year old thread.
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  #208  
Old 08-15-2010, 03:29 AM
kelbigd kelbigd is offline
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First time on this Forum..... So it is one day old to me! Thanks
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