572 hemi build

[george a nilsen]

just ordered a KB street hemi aluminum block,4.50bore/4.50stroke. looking for advice on build up:mostly street & some strip, pump gas motor
crank:4340 non twist or billet4340
rods:billet aluminum or steel h beam
pistons:je light weight race or gas ported 10.5:1 or 11.5:1
cam:roller 700 lift , manufacture??
timing: gear drive,milodon or pete jackson
oiling, two line external milodon
ignition, msd billet distrib &6al box/ taylor 10mm wires
alt: 100 amp one wire
heads, stage v big valve, 2.42 intake/ 2.00 exhaust, full port & polish
rocker system: i have norris{ will this hold up} or should i buy stage v
induction:looking to use my weind tunnel ram with 2 1050s holley hp dominators/ mallory comp 250 elect pump/8an in & out/mallory comp 500 filter
exhaust: tti 2 1/8x 3 1/2 headers
ATI super damper
moroso electric water pump
be cool alunium rad
flex lite dual fans
727 trans
dana 60/430 gears

[Cudadrag]

Sounds to me you know what you want.. I do know you can kiss pump gas good bye on anything over 10.5:1 The Billet aluminum rods are nice and will lower engine inertia thus higher Rs are obtained. But I believe most will agree they don't last as long even with a light work load setup. That is true with pistons also. The Billet forged crank can't be beat for street/strip use. I only know of the very high end engines that are rebuilt after 20 or less runs who use the ultra light cranks. They too don't last.

The cam (I believe) is where the balencing act is won or lost on multi task engines (street and strip) Mopar Performance can tell you some do's and dont's for your application.

Sounds like fun!

Good Luck!

[george a nilsen]

i heard that 10.5:1 was the limit for pump gas, just looking to see if anybody ran higher without problems.
steel rods sounds better for street duty
Ray Barton has the rotating assembly, he has a choice of 4340 non twist,Byrant 4340 billet lightened and knife edged race crankshafts. than the ultra lite which i dont want. i should go with the billet?
what is the gas ported pistons? this is better?

thanks

[Cudadrag]

Lateral gas ports are small holes machined into the top land of a piston. (Parallel to the top ring) This allows for faster sealing especially for thinner top rings. If you are using "GF" type top piston ring gas ports are recommended. I'm also guessing KB would recommend. As far as the crank I personally am only familiar with knifed edge billet steel.

I have heard of people claiming pump gas success with 11 or 11.5:1 pistons. I believe detonation is occurring with 11:1 but the poor guy doesn't know it. Damage can be happening without the tell tale signs of dieseling or pinging. Even 10.5:1 in some circles of discussion say is pushing it. I would not go over if 92/93 octane were the plan. There are MANY opinions on this subject. Some say that combustion chamber pressure dictates detonation. I have found with not to be 100% true. Detonation can occur on lower PSI (>120 psi) engines on the same octane level. I believe it’s a combination of combustion chamber temperature and pressure + engine compression and cylinder squish area.

http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Service%2...detonation.htm and

http://www.2strokeheads.com/Compression_and_octane.html

Talks about detonation

[george a nilsen]

my other hemi{ which i blew up in october, snapped #3&4 rods out the bottom sides of the block} i was running 12.5:1 on 93 oct, with 2/1150 dominators on a tunnel ram did show cylinder wall scuffing and had detonation which i didnt hear with the flow masters. i think scuffing was gas wash.
well anyway i want to do this one right on pump gas and get the most HP without supercharging or turbo charging. youve been a big help, thanks for all your info!!

[23T-Wedge]

Have to agree with Cuda on the compression, 10.5 is pushing it on pump gas, although with aluminum heads you can get away with about a point more than a similar steel head motor as the aluminum will dissipate heat a little quicker. I would think along the lines of 9.5 to 10. Also with this many cubes you won't need near as much dome to get that kind of compression. You for sure need a custom piston, if you use a shelf piston that says it's a 10 to 1 at a specific deck height on a 426 and you have the same deck and dome height on a 572 you'll have a bunch more than 10 to 1, so check that carefully. If you're planning on putting many miles on it, I would stay away from the gas ports, carbon buildup will eventually plug them up, plus they do put more wear on the cylinder walls. They do work when everything is fresh though. Good aluminum rods like Millers or GRP's would hold up for a while with a light assembly but you would probably have to change them out once a year, so steel would be the way to go.

[sanborn]

I'm just a lowly guy who is constantly wandering around in circles--got dizzy and wound up here. Don't know much about hemis.

But, with that many cubic inches, it would be helpful on the street to use a camshaft with 112-114 degrees of lobe separation. Why? The additional lobe separation reduces cylinder pressure---and allows the engine to use more mechanical compression without detonation.

About crankshafts, lighter is better---if it's a good billet with proper heat treat. And I wouldn't hesitate to use smaller rod journals---again if it's a good billet crank. And, I would recommend an aluminum dampner(if the crank is light enough)--again less weight.

Opps! I'm not dizzy anymore---better leave to wander some more.

[george a nilsen]

i ordered a KB alum block with std deck height, thanks on the gas port tip. going with steel rods, billet crank. Ray Barton sells the 572 rotating assembly with opitional componets i guess he will steer me in the right direction. just wanted to see what you guys thought.
thanks

[george a nilsen]

Originally Posted by sanborn

I'm just a lowly guy who is constantly wandering around in circles--got dizzy and wound up here. Don't know much about hemis.

But, with that many cubic inches, it would be helpful on the street to use a camshaft with 112-114 degrees of lobe separation. Why? The additional lobe separation reduces cylinder pressure---and allows the engine to use more mechanical compression without detonation.

About crankshafts, lighter is better---if it's a good billet with proper heat treat. And I wouldn't hesitate to use smaller rod journals---again if it's a good billet crank. And, I would recommend an aluminum dampner(if the crank is light enough)--again less weight.

Opps! I'm not dizzy anymore---better leave to wander some more.

thanks for the tip on the cam, i dont want detonation problems, also want a good vacumn signal to be streetable with the 2/1050"s
what i have for the damper is the ati super damper, could i use this??

thanks

[23T-Wedge]

George,
Don't let Sanborn's self-deprecating opinion of himself fool you.................he's forgotten more than most of us will ever know.......

[george a nilsen]

why did i know that, he"s probably a great poker player too

[b-1ken]

I know I'm being a wise guy here, but a STREET motor!!?? Damn, you must have cash to burn. The dough you're spending on that thing could keep me racing B-1's in Super Gas for the next ten years. Can you really put the throttle to the floor on the street with something like that?

[george a nilsen]

Originally Posted by b-1ken

I know I'm being a wise guy here, but a STREET motor!!?? Damn, you must have cash to burn. The dough you're spending on that thing could keep me racing B-1's in Super Gas for the next ten years. Can you really put the throttle to the floor on the street with something like that?

Its a hemi thing ,once you have one you cant go back to mini motors, HA HA!
just kidding i know you could blow it away.
its not cash to burn its something i allways wanted,i could drop dead tommorrow, i have to be happy today. people go out and buy a motorhome or a new viper or truck. the same money to burn. its like a close to retirement toy
i mostly cruise the streets with my buddies& do alot of car shows& maybe once or twice take it to the drags

[b-1ken]

George, you seem like a real nice guy, who knows what he wants. You really shouldn't pay much attention to me (my friends & family already know that). Good luck with the 'roid.

[george a nilsen]

thanks buddy! yeah i"m just a dumb Norwegian ironworker trying to live me life to the fullest!!!