alternator conversion

[ehostler]

If you want a great setup, currently there is a near new 130 AMP ND Alternator on ebay (from an '02 Dodge conversion van). They are asking $74 + $14.95 shipping. Then ad the '70s regulator and wire it all up.

If done correctly, you will never have a low current problem again.

[ehostler]

Originally posted by dkn1997@aol.com
I checked out that ebay alt, I do not know if it will fit, and also that whole serp belt deal, do not know if I could change that to reg pulley setup, good price, though

The pulley can be changed. Either a '70s style MOPAR or GM pulley will work fine. The unit will fit, however, you will need to go to the hardware store and get a $3.00 bushing/spacer, to make it fit.

If I were employed right now, I would buy one of those alternators for my '69 Coronet.

As far as the regulator connector goes, if you can't get it anywhere else, I'm sure that Texas Acres can get you one.

[ehostler]

Originally posted by rebby
... the good part is that if i ever have a problem w/the powermaster out in the middle of nowhere (where only gm parts are sold) i can get any 1-wire gm alt and bolt it in...

Then why pay all of the extra money for the powermaster, if you can go to the auto parts store or auto salvage yard and get a GM 1-wire unit??

Again, I would go with the new 130 AMP ND (from a Dodge conversion van) on ebay, before I would ever consider putting a GM unit in my car. It can also be replaced by ANY parts store.

[ehostler]

Anything above 55 AMP will need a 10 gauge cable that wires directly to the battery (or where it connects to the starter relay or starter motor). This is because the under dash wiring and the stock alt gauge cannot handle that much current.

I didn't know that anybody carried the connector pigtail for the '70 & up regulator. I'll have to check my local NAPA and see if they are still available.

[ehostler]

Cool... I found the regulator connector on the NAPA website. It is Item # ECHVRC38 and it is $7.49

[ehostler]

The unit on ebay uses a bolt on pulley, not a press on pulley. You would need to get the correct pulley from a '70s MOPAR or a GM.

[ehostler]

You would leave the normal + wire in place. Add a second + wire of 10 Guage, going from the alt to where the battery connects to the starter relay.

With the 130 AMP unit, you will ahve to come up with a different way of securing it on the bottom. The factory style has a bolt that goes into the case. This alows you to hold the alt tight while using the other hand to tighten the bolt into the case. You'd probably be able to overcome this with a nut on the bottom hole of the new alt.

[ehostler]

If you run the second + wire from the alt to the where the battery connects to the starter relay, there is no need to disconnect the factory AMP guage.

[ehostler]

In order to find the PN on the website, I think that I told it that it was for a '74 Duster. It wasn't listed for a '74 Challenger. I agree that it's kind of stupid that they couldn't find it with the PN.

I know when I bought my last set of spark plugs (for my Ram), I wanted to change the heat rating. As it wasn't listed in the computer for my truck, they wouldn't sell them to me. They did have them in stock, on the shelf, but refused to sell them to me. Sometimes the NAPA policies leave a little to be desired.

[ehostler]

Yes, the two pins in the oval connector are the field connections. You can eithier try to find the correct connector or fabricate something.

As far as bypassing the ALT guage goes, there really is no reason to do so, if you run a 10G wire from the Alt to the starter relay (where the battery connects to it), in conjunction with the existing ALT wire. In that configuration the ALT guage will take a very minimal load, as most of the current will be going directly throught the ALT wire(s).

[ehostler]

You should be able to get the pulley from a local salvage yard. If you don't have anything local, try an auto parts store. They often have a box of pullies behind the counter. They may trade you straight up, for the pulley tha cam on the alt. The only other option would be to try and find an auto electric shop near you, they should have the correct pullies as well.

As far as not being able to get, you appear to have caught on. It was another person that doesn't appear to have caught on.

Another thing that you can do, to help relieve the strain on the internal wiring and the headlight switch, is to use relays in that setup as well. A good diagram is at http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/how_to/relays/

[ehostler]

Originally posted by dkn1997@aol.com
One concern: niether the original pulley or shaft on alt has any keyways. I hope just tightening the nut on the pulley is enough to keep pulley from spinning?

If the retaining nut is tightened to specs, it should hold the pulley nice and firm, just like it did with the serpaninte pulley.

No luck at the first junkyard for the field connector male plug. Dan, you should try to find this asap, as this seems to be the toughest to locate.

1st yard kind of small, will try a couple of others tomorrow, if no luck, will go down to the dodge dealer and bend over.
eholster: you have any ideas on how to fab something for that field connector? sounds like you knew exactly what I was talking about- two female spades do not work, too big.

I would think that this connector would be a little hard to come by, as that plug is a fairly new design. You can try the NAPA store and tell them the application is what the ALT came from (2002 Dodge Van). You can also try the dealership.

As the seller was unable to provide me with any straight on pics of that connector, I'm not familiar with its setup and the size of the two connectors inside. I'm thinking that Radio Shack may have some connectors that you can get to grab onto the pins/blades.

Just crossed my mind... The auto electric shop, that you went to, may have it as well.

[ehostler]

It looks pretty good. Glad to hear that it worked for you.

Like you said, that alt is going to be able to keep up with almost anything that you throw at it. As long as you wire extras in correctly, the wiring will hold up as well.

No more dimming headlights for you.

[ehostler]

DKN please read

Originally posted by JoeMack2
My only concern is about that 130 amps. Thats some major amperage. You guys are sure, that by adding that 10 guage wire, is all that is needed for the original system to be able to handle that much amperage?

Thanks for questioning my judgement on that one. I did some research and found that my truck (120 AMP factory alt) uses a 6g cable to handle that current. I did some searching and found that a 4g wire is required, to handle the full 130 AMPs at 14.4VDC. If you leave the factory wiring in place, you could probably get away with the 6g wire, but I would go with the 4g wire to be safe.

DKN - sorry for the bad information. That 10g wire isn't going to hand a full charge from that ALT. please swap it with a 4g wire, as soon as you can.

Again I am sorry about the bad info of the 10g wire.

[ehostler]

the 6g wire in my truck came from my Haynes manual. The 4g for the 14.4VDC @ 130A came from a calculator on the net, however my PC locked up, before I could bookmark it. I'll see if I can find it again.

[ehostler]

I searched my history and found it. It is located at http://www.paigewire.com/agwirecalc.asp

Just use 1 phase, as single phase calculations may also be used for DC.

[George G. Leverette]

Some one suggested getting an alternator for a 1985 Dodge
D-150 truck for better output at lower RPM. I followed this suggestion because the dist on the car had stripped threads. The alternator was an exact duplicate with one exception "The pulleys on the truck alternator were smaller in diameter". The alternator will hold at the 12 oclock position even with lights and accessories on.

[George G. Leverette]

Dave 571 thanks for the explaination on the differences between the thick vs thin stators are, heard a lot of references to the thin\thick stator but no way to indentifiy them. What about the small diameter alternators found on some of the later cars do they have the same 60 amp output?

[polarapete]

I did the late alternator upgrade to my '64. I went from a single field to a dual field with the late electronic VR. Most of the changes were outlined in various articles in the Mopar Action magazine.

I felt I needed the improvement because of the Electric Cooling Fan, Electric Driver's Seat etc.. So far, so good.

Check www.moparaction.com

[MitchB]

Maybe not the info you are looking for, but I converted my 1980 Aspen to use a 78 amp Mopar alternator with a Ford external voltage regulator. This reguired running a wire off one phase of the stator winding to the field terminal of the regulator. This is an easy modification. This charging system works excellent.

Mitch

[dave571]

No need to change up the regulator to the new style.

The Wilson replacement, for the old style regulator( that looks exactly like the old one, and is a direct bolt in), is electronic. Open it up and have a look, if anyone doubts me. They sell up here for about $14 canadian(8.50 us money) If, you've changed your's in the last few years, it's probably elctronic already. Pull off the cover. If it looks like a relay inside, it's point style. If the bulk of it is empty, with a little circuit board in the middle, it's electronic.

No connector or rewiring needed, when going to the newer alt. Just ground the second terminal on the alternator. The difference between the pre 70 charging circuit,and the post 70, is the location of the regulator. In the early cars the power side(of the field current) is regulated and the ground is direct. In the later cars, it's direct power to the first wire, while the second is the ground(and goes back to the regulator to be grounded)

Field current flow works in exactly the same way. Again, if there are any doubters, get the factory wiring diagrams and compare. Or take apart the two alternators. The second brush goes straight to ground. In most of them this is visable without even dissassembling the alternator. Just look at the back of it.

I've done this many times, and have always been confused as to why the newer regulator is more appealing. The old one works fine, and can be replaced with an electronic unit cheaply.

Ps. You should be able to get the 78 amp from a parts store(with a warranty) for the 75 bucks or less(I know they're about 75 canadian around here..50 bucks us money?). Ask for one for an 1980 dodge truck or so. They are listed in the catalog, by amperage and by double and single groove pully. Any parts man should be able to figure it out for you. At the very least, there should be one guy in the store who can read the book.

If your looking for a high amp one at the wreckers the difference is obvious. The windings(between the case halves) are only about an 1/8 of an inch thick. The ones on your old style one are more like 1/2" between the case halves.

[dave571]

I'd have to look in a parts catalog to be sure. I'm not sure of the amperage changes year by year.

I know that 78 amps were quite common among the later years of v8 car production.

If you are near a Napa, ask if they will let you look at one of thier catalogs. For that matter, they should be willing to give you one if you ask. They don't cost the store anything, and they are commonly given out to repair shops. So they can look up they're own stuff when problems arise.

[JoeMack2]

I'm seriously thinking about doing the same swap. Tired of the dimming lights. My only concern is about that 130 amps. Thats some major amperage. You guys are sure, that by adding that 10 guage wire, is all that is needed for the original system to be able to handle that much amperage? Please let me know as soon as you can.

Thanks

[JoeMack2]

I just got the last alternator on E-Bay and I am going to go ahead and put it in my 68 Satellite w/440. Thanks dkn1997, for that list, it's going to be real helpful. I've got a couple of questions about the installation, for you guys. I was looking at the June 2000 Mopar Action issue and there is an article in there about up-grading your charging system. Something was mentioned about putting a fusible link in the extra wire from the alternator, is that a good idea? I have already switched to electronic ignition in my car and I have an electronic voltage regulator, is that the same regulator that was mentioned in the parts list? Thanks

[charger_dan]

dkn,
I picked up the late-model square back alternator, elec. regulator, and even the correct factory-style regulator pigtail from NAPA for not too much money. Wired it up, and it's been totally reliable ever since. Go for it.

one other thing:
It's also a great point to check the condition and current carrying capability of your existing battery lead off the alternator. I ended up replacing my stock gauge stuff with I believe 10 gauge, along with all new field / regulator wiring. You might ask some other guys what they recommend for wire gauge vs. amp/load rating.

Good luck!

[charger_dan]

kevin,
Any way you could post a pic of the swap when you're done?
I'm interested in this swap, and would really like to see how it looks after installation.

[charger_dan]

I jut posted some relevant information regarding fusible links and wire sizes on the thread Alternator Feed Wire: Routing. Take a look.

[charger_dan]

Originally posted by dkn1997@aol.com
new denso 130 amp mopar alternator

Kevin,
Just curious ...
what is the original equipment application for the alternator?
Did you get it from NAPA, too? New, or rebuilt? Price?
Please forgive me if this info. has already been posted.
thanks,
Dan

[charger_dan]

Thanks for the hot tip on the alternators.
I couldn't resist such a killer deal - and now there's only 2 of them left on E-bay I can't wait to hear how your swap goes.

Anybody got any ouput numbers on this unit? I'd be interested in knowing output at idle...

[charger_dan]

Kevin
Yeah, I was kind of wondering what your plans were for the field connector. I was just figuring on visiting the dealer. If I can score just a short pigtail assembly (and not a larger harness), I don't think it'll cost much.

Regarding your new pulley:
Do you know the application?

Thanks for the heads up
Dan