Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide!



Go Back   Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide! > General Chat > Off-Topic Forum

Click here to search for Mopar cars and parts for sale.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-21-2007, 11:48 AM
bjoehandley bjoehandley is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WeGo, Chi-town, Il
Age: 47
Posts: 3,449
Default Hummer Vs Prius

True costs of the Prius
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-21-2007, 06:50 PM
cutting torch's Avatar
cutting torch cutting torch is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 51
Posts: 1,625
Default

One thing I am left wondering about, though, is the recycling aspect of the Prius. Nickel is quite valuable as a scrap metal. I don't think that changes much, but it wasn't mentioned.

The article did a good job getting people to think of the impact of a product over it's expected lifespan, instead of what the immediate benefits are said to be.

This could turn into a good way to discuss energy issues, and get through the various facts and tripe that are out there.

torch
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-21-2007, 08:01 PM
peg leg peg leg is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Star, Idaho
Age: 88
Posts: 2,669
Default There's more!

according to my trusted parts guys at our good parts store, the main power battery has a 100K average life, and replacement cost is.........................
$9000.00!!!
Ron
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-21-2007, 08:34 PM
Dick's Avatar
Dick Dick is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Western NH
Age: 80
Posts: 8,880
Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by peg leg View Post
according to my trusted parts guys at our good parts store, the main power battery has a 100K average life, and replacement cost is.........................
$9000.00!!!
Ron
That would SEVERELY impact the value of a used Prius. A car with 80K on the clock would be considered a throw away car, regardless of the condition. Nobody would pay more than a few hundred for it with only 20K left to go.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-21-2007, 10:18 PM
ehostler's Avatar
ehostler ehostler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Annandale, VA
Age: 57
Posts: 15,212
Default

Although I can't stand that car, the article did miss many points that are in favor of the consumer.

In many places, hybrids are allowed to use HOV lanes with only one occupant. You get annual tax write offs (both federal and state) for driving a hybrid. Hybrids normally have much lower property tax rates. As the government is pushing hybrids, you can normally get a much lower intrest rate on your financing. Some employers will even give you money, if you keep the car for more than a certain amount of time. I know that I am missing other benefits.

Me - I love my fuel hungry Cummins Ram. Of course, if my Ram ever goes up against a Prius in an accident, I will be able to drive away. Odds are, the occupants of the Prius will be headed to the morgue.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-21-2007, 10:26 PM
Grandmas67's Avatar
Grandmas67 Grandmas67 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bakersfield,CA
Age: 59
Posts: 1,050
Default

Oh man, what a joke! I was up in San Fran last weekeend and my wife and I both commented on how the Prius seems to be the car of choice there. I mean alot of people own them.Hahahahahaha! What a bunch of morons.Forrest Gump thinks that's stupid.I guess we wont see that sled in 30 yrs at a classic car show.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-21-2007, 11:35 PM
memnoch451 memnoch451 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Newprt Beach, California
Posts: 1,248
Default

I just don't get it?

I believe that any of the US and those other guys over there... Could make a car(gas powered) get great MPG. Low drag + fuel efficent motor + nice looks + compfy + Hemi orange or Sublime = I'd buy one

But, really the prius is a piece of shall we say junk. I drove a Honde insight for a week and that car was kinda fun in a go cart sort of a way and it got better milage then the prius... and looked better(sportier)..once you got over the funny green color!

Stop making super large SUV's as I am sick of seeing a mom and a baby seat tearing down the freeway at 92...

...Are you with me boys?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-22-2007, 12:07 AM
ehostler's Avatar
ehostler ehostler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Annandale, VA
Age: 57
Posts: 15,212
Default

I will say that if fuel economy were at the top of my list, I would go with a VW Jetta with a diesel. It gets far better economy than the prius, costs less, and in the overall is far more environmental friendly.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-22-2007, 12:18 AM
memnoch451 memnoch451 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Newprt Beach, California
Posts: 1,248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehostler View Post
I will say that if fuel economy were at the top of my list, I would go with a VW Jetta with a diesel. It gets far better economy than the prius, costs less, and in the overall is far more environmental friendly.
See that's what I'm talking about...damn the big 2.5
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-22-2007, 01:48 AM
Stoga's Avatar
Stoga Stoga is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: WV
Age: 65
Posts: 8,586
Default

Seeing that Mr Gore doesn't work for Toyota nor was mentioned in the article, you may want to put more effort into staying on-topic.
However, one knock I've always had on these hybrids is what to do with the batteries and the toxic chemicals required both when manufactured and you have to deal with when the batteries are worn out.
I've always thought the electric car was over-rated, our great grandparents gave them up as impractical over 80 years ago.
Fine for a go-kart, not so good at moving a whole nation.
I think alternative fuels for internal combustion engines have a lot more potential if you want to be green, and I'd like to stop putting more money into Middle East pocketbooks anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-22-2007, 03:41 AM
go-fish go-fish is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Long Beach, MS
Posts: 346
Default

I am a proud TDI owner. I had a 92 when I was stationed in Puerto Rico. It was 2002 and the thing was going strong. When I got stationed in Mississippi I got an '03 for the wife. We have ran a full tank out of it at 75mph and then held it steady at 65 for a tank. Both had an avg. of 47 mpg, this was between San Diegao and Mississippi on Interstate 10 the whole way. It was consistent terrain and pavement surface.
Yeah the VW's have some issues like our window motor went out at 120,000 miles, the rubberized oh-sh!t handles are peeling, and the clear coat is coming off of the mirrors. Those are minor concessions to driving the smartest car on the road.
My ideal hybrid is a TDI that runs on corn diesel and regular diesel.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-22-2007, 08:38 PM
cutting torch's Avatar
cutting torch cutting torch is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 51
Posts: 1,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoga View Post
Seeing that Mr Gore doesn't work for Toyota nor was mentioned in the article, you may want to put more effort into staying on-topic.
Did you miss the rest of my post? I think I stayed on topic quite well compared to you, when you were ranting about Bush on a thread about Al Gore's utility bill. The difference being that Bush has nothing to do with Gore's utility bill, but Gore is an avid environmentalist, which is up the same alley as an environmental impact article about a hybrid car.

Please look in the mirror the next time you recite your "pot and kettle" statement.

If this needs to go further than this, you can PM me, so we don't taint this thread further.

torch
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-22-2007, 09:07 PM
go-fish go-fish is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Long Beach, MS
Posts: 346
Default

Thank you two for taking that outside. Back to the topic............Prius SUX.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-22-2007, 10:29 PM
cutting torch's Avatar
cutting torch cutting torch is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 51
Posts: 1,625
Default

I thought of another angle....When these hybrids are used up to the point of junking them, will there be a hazmat type surcharge for doing so, because of the batteries? Tires and lead-acid batteries already have disposal charges attached to them around here.

torch
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-23-2007, 02:00 AM
Stoga's Avatar
Stoga Stoga is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: WV
Age: 65
Posts: 8,586
Default

However, I do agree that the battery disposal is going to be a problem, and there is also a hazard to emergency workers, police and 1st responders if there's been an accident with one of these electrical wonders.
Replacement is said to be "somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, probably a whole lot longer."
http://www.hybridcars.com/faq.html
Count me skeptical on that "probably".
They haven't replaced a battery YET, but regardless, there'll come a time when they wear out, nothing lasts forever, then we'll see. Compared to a diesel or even a well maintained gasoline engine, I don't find that 150 to 200K mile range all that impressive. Replacement cost for a hybrid battery looks to be 2 to 3 grand, though somehow I expect when the time comes, it'll probably be higher. Whatever it is, be sure to add that total into your fuel costs!
http://hybridcars.about.com/od/hybri...atterycost.htm
I expect we'll hear more about a hazardous materials dumping surcharge about that time.
I'm not totally against electric vehicles, I think in citys and over short distances they could be very viable. However, until they get the bugs worked out, I'll stick to gasoline and/or diesel for long distance cruising or heavy loads.
It's probably going to take another 10 years, maybe longer before they get electric vehicles close to practical as internal combusion and there's still going to be a price penalty both in up front purchase cost and maintenence.
Honestly, I think Diesel will be the way of the future, though there'll always be gas engines. Diesel is much more forgiving of alternative fuels and has a torque advantage that is hard to beat.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-23-2007, 07:08 AM
go-fish go-fish is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Long Beach, MS
Posts: 346
Default

I can clearly see that your intention was only the first paragraph. The rest was standard blurb for the topic, of course you are going to stick to gas or diesel. To tell us that wasn't you main goal.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-23-2007, 07:10 AM
Frank's Avatar
Frank Frank is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,918
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoga View Post
It's probably going to take another 10 years, maybe longer before they get electric vehicles close to practical as internal combusion and there's still going to be a price penalty both in up front purchase cost and maintenence.
I suspect that as things progress, and congress becomes more and more "green", we should expect to see surcharges attached to conventional gas and diesel vehicles in the future. Similar to the "Gas Guzzler" tax. If they want to push hybrids on us, they will give them more and more selling advantages. Tax breaks for the manufacturer on hybrid production, and maybe a surcharge on production of gas and diesel powered vehicles. The purpose being to make production and sale of hybrids more attractive to both manufacturer and consumer.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-23-2007, 08:24 AM
REDNECKMOBILE REDNECKMOBILE is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: CHARLOTTE, NC
Posts: 661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by go-fish View Post
I am a proud TDI owner. I had a 92 when I was stationed in Puerto Rico. It was 2002 and the thing was going strong. When I got stationed in Mississippi I got an '03 for the wife. We have ran a full tank out of it at 75mph and then held it steady at 65 for a tank. Both had an avg. of 47 mpg, this was between San Diegao and Mississippi on Interstate 10 the whole way. It was consistent terrain and pavement surface.
Yeah the VW's have some issues like our window motor went out at 120,000 miles, the rubberized oh-sh!t handles are peeling, and the clear coat is coming off of the mirrors. Those are minor concessions to driving the smartest car on the road.
My ideal hybrid is a TDI that runs on corn diesel and regular diesel.
I agree with you on the the VW, I just wish Toyota would clean up the Hilux's diesel so that I could buy one. I keep hoping that some of Mercedes technology would rub off on Dodge too, I would like to see a 30MPG light duty pickup. As for the Pruis, it's no more practical than a Hummer.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:42 AM
memnoch451 memnoch451 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Newprt Beach, California
Posts: 1,248
Default

If I am not mistaken... Mercedes is the only CAR that passed the diesle import rules for like the past 3 years. ( I have not googled this )but, they are doing or I should say making a great product..it just costs way to much for your avg joe.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-23-2007, 06:20 PM
Stoga's Avatar
Stoga Stoga is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: WV
Age: 65
Posts: 8,586
Default

I keep the spam and trash out of my forums as is what I volunteered to do, however, I have the right to disagree with what I think is wrong same as any other member.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-23-2007, 06:30 PM
Stoga's Avatar
Stoga Stoga is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: WV
Age: 65
Posts: 8,586
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankendart72 View Post
The purpose being to make production and sale of hybrids more attractive to both manufacturer and consumer.
Agreed, but I wonder how long it'll take. We had LPG filling stations here, which burns much cleaner than gasoline. Our local municpalities as well as the city , county and State Police used it. However when gas dropped down to 99cents to 1.10$ or so in the late 90s, they gave up on it and and switched back to gasoline. Of course, the price of gasoline has been rising ever since while they've not replaced the LPG stations.
I was really wanting to fit a system to one of my Mopars and experiment with high compression with LPG having a high natural octane, however I'm glad I didn't cause I would have ended up out of luck and with a bunch of LPG equipment I could hardly use.
Luckily, I don't think the hybrid is as sensitive to fuel supply as LPG converted vehicles.
I think the hybrid 's success in the market is inevitable, the only question is when and in what numbers.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-23-2007, 08:18 PM
Frank's Avatar
Frank Frank is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,918
Default

There is also nothing to say the hybrids couldn't become a hobby car, too. I know, I know... but it would be an automotive hobby in a different vain. Getting performance and economy from an gas/electric vehicle.
Imagine getting an electric motor to spin a set of tires at 10,000 rpm. Or what about a hybrid with a Hemi? Why not? I understand GM has a Hybrid Silverado that puts out 300hp on the gas side.

To make these things acceptable to most Americans, it will needto be economical, safe, and reliable. To make it acceptable to gearhears, it will need to have some power, room to grow, and some aftermarket support.

It actually could start the who "Hotrodding" movement over again.

Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming....
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-23-2007, 08:59 PM
rosserman's Avatar
rosserman rosserman is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Clermont, FL
Age: 42
Posts: 115
Default

As far as i am concerned, driving a hyprid is no better for the environment than smoking light cigarettes is for your lungs. This is based on most of the points that have already been mentioned here, so i won't bother to repeat them.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:45 PM
cutting torch's Avatar
cutting torch cutting torch is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 51
Posts: 1,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoga View Post
Nah, you wiped your taint on it quite well, I post one sentence and you respond with a paragraph of baloney. I'd respond to the rest of your post, but it was off-topic too, like the part I responded to.
Remember, if you don't want a response in opposition, don't post then whine later. If I take it to private, then I lose the chance to respond here.
Maybe you should have refrained from mentioning certain names in the first place, then there'd be nothing to respond to, problem solved.
Let me disect the baloney....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoga
Nah, you wiped your taint on it quite well, I post one sentence and you respond with a paragraph of baloney.
My taint cannot travel the internet. If it could, I'd bet it would be painful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoga
I'd respond to the rest of your post, but it was off-topic too, like the part I responded to.
Actually, it was on-topic. It made a point about my initial statement, and I made the correlation between Gore and hybrids. Here it is to refresh your memory:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuttingtorch
I think I stayed on topic quite well compared to you, when you were ranting about Bush on a thread about Al Gore's utility bill. The difference being that Bush has nothing to do with Gore's utility bill, but Gore is an avid environmentalist, which is up the same alley as an environmental impact article about a hybrid car.
Just to remind you, YOU were the first to bring up Bush in the "inconvenient truth" thread that was locked (post #9).

Going back and forth about staying on-topic is moot anyway, since we are in the off-topic forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoga
Remember, if you don't want a response in opposition, don't post then whine later.
If you think that when I defend myself, that I am whining, then that is your problem. When you rag on Bush, and you are called a whiner, does that make you one? I don't think so. You have your concerns, and you air them. So do I. You "whined" about Bush in the "inconvenient truth" thread, and you don't recognize a problem with that, but you say I am "whining" when I inject Al Gore into a subject that he is all over. How do you reconcile that discrepancy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoga
If I take it to private, then I lose the chance to respond here.
Responding here is what I was trying to minimize, since this thread is an interesting discussion that does not need to be locked by our little spat, but you forced my hand, and now I am playing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoga
Maybe you should have refrained from mentioning certain names in the first place, then there'd be nothing to respond to, problem solved.
It's not my fault that you are hypersensitive to any negative mention of Al Gore. I mentioned, you responded. If you had ignored my comment, it would have ended there. (Problem solved.)

torch
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:03 PM
cutting torch's Avatar
cutting torch cutting torch is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 51
Posts: 1,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankendart72 View Post
There is also nothing to say the hybrids couldn't become a hobby car, too. I know, I know... but it would be an automotive hobby in a different vain. Getting performance and economy from an gas/electric vehicle.
Imagine getting an electric motor to spin a set of tires at 10,000 rpm. Or what about a hybrid with a Hemi? Why not? I understand GM has a Hybrid Silverado that puts out 300hp on the gas side.

To make these things acceptable to most Americans, it will needto be economical, safe, and reliable. To make it acceptable to gearhears, it will need to have some power, room to grow, and some aftermarket support.

It actually could start the who "Hotrodding" movement over again.

Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming....
No, you're not dreaming....

Tweak whatever you've got is what ties us gearheads together! It is the common thread that holds us together.

The hybrid has tons of potential for tweaking, but we have not seen it yet. Give it time. Battery technology, motor technology, and materials used will evolve, and it's only a matter of time until a gearhead gets his hands on it!

Eventually, some gearheads may extend the life of these hybrids, helping to offset the subpar return on these things.

Ok, tell me.... Am I dreaming now?

torch
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:48 PM
go-fish go-fish is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Long Beach, MS
Posts: 346
Default

A Toyota Prius has gone 130 mph at Bonneville to claim the Hybrid Land Speed record. That is good news for hotrod minded "green" people but stiil, what are the damages donre to the environment when that car or the other nickle batteried vehicles have to be junked.
Right noe, with the current technology you might as well buy a toaster(ScionXB). Nothing against hybrid cars really. I just hate to see the "green" minded morons of the world thinking the automotive equivilent of "the saviour" has arrived.
For the "little fat dog guy", Memnoch (I just like calling you that, it's funny) VW has been selling diesel cars in the US for more than a decade. The reason you haven't noticed is because you live in Cali. where they have a different set of emission standards and the only diesel you could get for the longest time was a 1-ton or better p/u. Only with the passage of the low sulpher diesel fuel law and the concessions the OEM's have made like catalytic converters for all diesel vehicles have they(Cali) allowed the sale in the state.
I love CA, lived in Ventura and San Diego, the wifey is fron Coronado, the weather is awesome and earthquakes give me a hard on for some reason, BUT, the backwards mindset about vehicles and emission standards keep me from living there. (That and some other things that I will not mention here.)
I know that there needs to be more electric and public transportation in some cities to reduce smog but the spread of that mindset outside of the metropolace into the rest of the state and even to other states is downright scary.
So now we are content on living in the south and going back to visit the devi.....I mean Mother In Law in Coronado.
So does anyone know what happened to the diesel that Dodge was supposed to be developing for the 1500 Ram? Ford was supposed to do the same thing.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-24-2007, 12:13 AM
Stoga's Avatar
Stoga Stoga is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: WV
Age: 65
Posts: 8,586
Default

The sad thing is it appears that we appear to agree the hybrids aren't all they are cracked up to be, if the political references had been left out, we would've probably been mostly in agreement, imagine that!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-24-2007, 12:30 AM
go-fish go-fish is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Long Beach, MS
Posts: 346
Default

It is really dissappointing to see someone not be able to let go of something. Clearly you should be allowed to bring the Father of the Internet in on this topic because he is "green". The articles was taking a look at the trend of being environmentaly minded but in all actuallity being bad for the environment. Al Gore has the same mix up with his campaign to save the earth but how does he travel???
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-24-2007, 12:40 AM
Stoga's Avatar
Stoga Stoga is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: WV
Age: 65
Posts: 8,586
Default

go-fish, that too could have easily been sent to me in a private message.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-24-2007, 12:56 AM
go-fish go-fish is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Long Beach, MS
Posts: 346
Default

Stoga, that too could have easily been sent to me in a private message.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Toyota Prius Hoax? Dick Off-Topic Forum 35 03-17-2010 09:02 AM
38 MPG Hummer Shatto Off-Topic Forum 10 06-01-2009 11:56 PM
Toyota Prius a GREEN vehicle? Think again! Dr. Righteous Off-Topic Forum 5 08-14-2008 07:53 PM
Hummer Performance amxauto-x Off-Topic Forum 25 06-26-2003 05:04 PM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
. . . . .