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  #1  
Old 12-07-2007, 05:13 PM
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Biggrin Subject: Russian 30MK Fighter

Subject: Russian 30MK Fighter


You might find this interesting....watch the video. (See attached file: CA_SU-30.wmv) Russia now has #1 fighter plane in the world. SU-30- Vectored Thrust with Canards. As you watch this airplane, look at the canards moving along side of, and just below the canopy rail. The "canards" are the small wings forward of the main wings. The smoke and contrails provide a sense of the actual flight path, sometimes in reverse direction. This video is of an in-flight demonstration flown by the Russian's-30MK fighter aircraft.


You will not believe what you are about to see. The fighter can stall from high speed, stopping forward motion in seconds (full stall). Then, it demonstrates an ability to descend tail first without causing a compressor stall. It can also recover from a flat spin in less than a minute. These maneuver capabilities don't exist in any other aircraft in the world today.




Take a look at the video with the sound up. This aircraft is of concern to U.S. and NATO planners. We don't know which nations will soon be flying the SU-30MK; hopefully China isn't one of them.

Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

http://www.youtube.com/user/RedheadInfidel
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  #2  
Old 12-07-2007, 05:50 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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The F-22 has vectored thrust and the same capabilities in the real world of air-to-air combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca9UecfdY4o
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2007, 06:56 PM
Frankie Frankie is offline
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That first plane, the Russian one, looks remarkably like an F15 Eagle.
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2007, 07:18 PM
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The SU-30 has been around for a while, and while it may be the most maneuverable fighter at low speeds, the F-22 Raptor has surpassed it in high speed performance, stealth technology and the most advanced computer systems, which make even the SU-30 easy prey for it. You have to remember that the tailslides and double loops are cool to watch, but dont help much in modern air combat. The F-22 will see the SU-30 much earlier, fire its missile and be headed home with the kill while the SU-30 pilot is dead and never even knew his adversary was there.
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Old 12-07-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
That first plane, the Russian one, looks remarkable like an F15 Eagle.
Yep, and take a look at the F-15 Active, minus the thrust vectoring, its almost the same plane. If you look up the other new fighter, the Eurofighter, it looks very similar to the US made X-31. Weve already been there with the same type fighters and decided that see first, fire first technology was the way to go rather than low speed ultra-maneuverable performance.
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2007, 08:00 PM
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Yeah, doing moves like that is like shooting a sitting duck, easy target, not even fun.
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2007, 12:07 AM
sthorvictor75duster sthorvictor75duster is offline
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haha wicked! i fly schweitzer 2-33A's AKA gliders haha and some of those maneuvers are intense, stalls, spirals, spins, you can do al of that in a glider just on a complete different scale haha, and you dont have the same momentum, and controllability..as a high performanced millitary jet..
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2007, 01:37 AM
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It is only competition against the F15. It can't compete against the F18 or the F22. The Russians have been flying this plane for long time. We have designed and built other planes, since we learned of this plane. The west has no worries/concerns of this copycat F15.
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2007, 10:39 AM
sthorvictor75duster sthorvictor75duster is offline
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ive seen CF-18's pull off the runway vertically climbing several thousand feet to disapear through the clouds...its prety intense, most of the slower maneuvers, and fast maneuvers can match what that MK can do, the faster an AC goes the less maneuverable it really is its a general rule of thumb, as far as slow(er) speed manuvers are converned, the ac's maneuverability seems to increase because of the less space required to get into and recover from a maneuver. there will always be fighters built to out perform the next guy and being a continious circle....take a look at the eurofighter typhoon, its considered to be one of the most advanced AC to be produced, already, if not soon there are Ac that can match it.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:31 AM
peg leg peg leg is offline
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Default Don't forget

The F22 raptor has three configurations. One includes VTOL. It is the first successful three service fighter.
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:58 PM
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Also, Russia has been selling these to India and China for several years.

I guess this show how outdated the original information was...
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Old 12-08-2007, 01:11 PM
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Yep, plus you can buy yourself a ride in one of the SU-30s if you are ever in St.Petersburg Russia, thats how they keep them funded. Pretty unsecured and sad if you ask me.
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Old 12-08-2007, 01:29 PM
sthorvictor75duster sthorvictor75duster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peg leg View Post
The F22 raptor has three configurations. One includes VTOL. It is the first successful three service fighter.
the F-35 has Vtol, im prety shure the F-22 doesent.....
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  #14  
Old 12-08-2007, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1973Swinger View Post
.... The F-22 will see the SU-30 much earlier, fire its missile and be headed home with the kill while the SU-30 pilot is dead and never even knew his adversary was there.
That may be true today.

But the U.S. thought the same way in the late '50s and early '60s. Thought dogfights were a thing of the past, that all air-to-air combat would consist of radar guided missiles from 50 miles. Vietnam changed that way of thinking, and the F-4E with its built-in Vulcan cannon and dogfight slats was one of the results. The other Phantoms also got a gun but in the form of an add-on unit.
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL View Post
That may be true today.

But the U.S. thought the same way in the late '50s and early '60s. Thought dogfights were a thing of the past, that all air-to-air combat would consist of radar guided missiles from 50 miles. Vietnam changed that way of thinking, and the F-4E with its built-in Vulcan cannon and dogfight slats was one of the results. The other Phantoms also got a gun but in the form of an add-on unit.
Yep, and the F-22 and 35 have exceptional dogfighting skills, but very low speed maneuvering like the SU-30 is capable of doesnt apply in a dogfight as much as high speed maneuverability does. The F-22 has 2d thrust vectoring and can turn just as tight in a close combat situation as the SU-30 can. The major advantage of the F-22 is its targeting computer and ultra long range radar systems. It can lock on to something like 10 targets at the same time from a looooong ways away and fire its missiles at all locked targets and then get out of there. Plus, its radar cross section is very small and not easy to spot on radar, so there is less chance of it being picked up and targeted in the first place. The SU-30 has none of those features, all it can do better than the F-22 is low speed maneuvering because of its 3d thrust vectoring. This is all based on what I have read and seen on Discovery/Military channel about the two aircraft. They are both very nice examples of what the technology of the 90s and 21st century can do and are vast improvements over the aircraft they replaced.
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:31 PM
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Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kunkel View Post
The F-22 has vectored thrust and the same capabilities in the real world of air-to-air combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca9UecfdY4o
Yeah, I've seen it before. A friend e mailed that link and ad to me and I thought I'd share it. Pretty cool video. Not much use for the stunt flying these days with the missle's we have. Might be able to out manuever a heat seeker, but not a radar guided missle.
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:32 PM
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Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
That first plane, the Russian one, looks remarkably like an F15 Eagle.
That's because they stole that design from our F-15's many years ago.
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:33 PM
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Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1973Swinger View Post
The SU-30 has been around for a while, and while it may be the most maneuverable fighter at low speeds, the F-22 Raptor has surpassed it in high speed performance, stealth technology and the most advanced computer systems, which make even the SU-30 easy prey for it. You have to remember that the tailslides and double loops are cool to watch, but dont help much in modern air combat. The F-22 will see the SU-30 much earlier, fire its missile and be headed home with the kill while the SU-30 pilot is dead and never even knew his adversary was there.

Have to agree with you there on that one. Only thing the 20 and 30 mm Vulcan cannons are good for these days are straffing ground targets. Not much to dog fighting these days.
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:33 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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The lesson of Viet Nam was that missiles are only good for longer range air-to-air combat, in close the gun is still the weapon of choice.

The general idea is to avoid the "fur ball" but it can still happen.
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Old 12-11-2007, 01:14 AM
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That's right, John.

And to assume that the "furball" is a thing of the past is, I think, misguided thinking. But I have to believe that the designers of modern airborne weapons platforms have taken this into consideration. Why else would they design the exteme maneuverability into the F22?
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