any problems with "Hedman" parts ? - "X" pipe question

[RAM MAN]

any quality issues or concerns you may have had / or noticed with Hedman products ????

I'm specifically looking at their "X" pipe for my 70 Road Runner

If there is a better quality brand, I would appreciate hearing about that as well ...

TIA

[dwc43]

Never had any problem with Hedman products before .Used a lot of them on street and race cars too. Never used there X pipe though. You want the best X pipe, get it from Dr Gas the ones that made them to start with for NASCAR use. www.drgas.com I would not use any other brand if you want it to work right and get the most from your combo.

[RAM MAN]

thanks

appreciate the link as well

[dwc43]

Welcome,anytime.

[Tarrbabe]

I thought the price was too high but then that is just me.
The biggest problem with street cars is that IF you have to work under there, they are in the way. The horsepower gained is fairly small if you have to work on it.
I've seen X pipes made in muffler shops that bolted in with snouts welded into the pipes that worked well. For years most people used them on the street so they could use lower restriction muff's, to lower the noise level so they could gain HP that way.

Just thinking out loud.

[dwc43]

If the exhaust is made right the X should be behind the tailshaft of the tranny. Mine pose no problems with working under my cars. The thing is with an X pipe you get what you pay for. The DR Gas model is smooth and properly made to balance the flow and pulses in the system. A muffler shop piece wont be able to do that.

[TK]

I disagree. There is nothing too exotic about a Dr Gas X pipe, I ended up with one, and it is very easy to reproduce. Except for the high quality pipe.....the inside is nothing special.
Stay away from cheap headman headers, and don't ask.

[RAM MAN]

did you weld them on, or clamp them ?

[fastnos]

I have a question to add. Does it matter where in the exhaust you put the "X"? Thanks! JOE

[TK]

I always weld mine, clamping just doesn't seem right, because I cant seem to get those real cool clamps the stock c ars and trucks come with.

As far as where to put it, yes it matters, but the X works good pretty much anywhere, so I hear. 1/2HP differences is for NASCAR, not us.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by RAM MAN

did you weld them on, or clamp them ?

Mine are welded into the system. Also what you will find with these cheapo X's is that it's a couple 90's wwith a rough cut hole that are welded together. The transistions are not smooth, and rarely line up the pipes in a real X fashion. That's why you need to use the more top end pieces for the X when putting it in your system. Just like when you get shop to do your exhaust. There's one bender that is made for pipe and one for tubbing. One leaves a nice radiaus bend like the DR stuff and the other bender leaves stretched places in the pipe that causes restrictions.

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by fastnos

I have a question to add. Does it matter where in the exhaust you put the "X"? Thanks! JOE

Yes, it matters a lot. The X should go an equal distance between the header exit and the muffler entrance for a street car. That usually puts it far behind the transmission so there is no clearance issues too.

[TK]

Just a couple months ago, you said it didn't matter where you put a X pipe, and, if you put it equal distance between the two, do you put your mufflers after the rear end? Halfway would be right under the tranny, unless you have a short shaft.
I agree, it is always better to have a shop do your exhaust, but as far as X pipes go, I really think you should be doing it more for sound, than power. Most never notice a difference, if they are being honest.

[gtx440]

Stay away, cheap junk manufactured by a bunch of arrogant chevy loving punks! I went the TTi route, not cheap but a nice quality piece.Good Luck mopar to ya

[twistedpipes]

I build x-pipe style exhaust everyday i prefer to use magnaflow x-pipe(i am a preffered dealer through magnaflow) the correct placement should be located just rear of the trans tailshaft the followed by (within 18-20inches from x) mufflers, if using headers with this app you should have from the headers a 38 degree bend in ward and a 15 degree bend to straighten out to the x from drivers side header. 15 degree pipe rotatation between bends. on the pass side depth bends remain the same however pipe rotation is increased to 30 degrees and length of pipe between the bends increases almost 2 inches. have pics available if you would like to see what they look like completed just pm me with email addy will send right away. fyi dr gas xpipe's are just 90 degree bends with a 1/2 cut in the center doesn't really do much, again in my opinion

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by twistedpipes

fyi dr gas xpipe's are just 90 degree bends with a 1/2 cut in the center doesn't really do much, again in my opinion

That's just not so, but you did say it's your opinion. The pic of the Dr Gas X pipe is made of several pieces as seen the pic I provided. And then it's finshed and polished smooth. And a 1/2" hole in a 2 or 3" X pipe would be useless.

[TK]

Yup, looks real exotic. The reason why it is made of more than one piece, is because you cant use that short of a shoe without kinking the pipe.

And then it's finished and polished smooth.

Wow, and they weld the brace over it to hid that it's two 35* bends with 1/4" cut into it, high tech stuff there!

And a 1/2" hole in a 2 or 3" X pipe would be useless.

No different than a X pipe.


Just out of curiosity, my bender was made for exhaust tubing, exclusively, I see you are saying it isn't. Any reason a Huth tubing bender made for exhaust isn't made for exhaust?

[dwc43]

Wow, and they weld the brace over it to hid that it's two 35* bends with 1/4" cut into it, high tech stuff there!

The plate is for suport since the weight of the exhaust system can easily cause a break at the X. That is all it is for. 1/4" cut is too small and worthless in an X that's why these are full size.

Just out of curiosity, my bender was made for exhaust tubing, exclusively, I see you are saying it isn't. Any reason a Huth tubing bender made for exhaust isn't made for exhaust?

Any bender that stretches the pipe at a bend is worthless no matter what name they hang on it. You also can not use a bender like that on roll bar tubbing cause it makes it weak in the stretched are of the bend. A real tubbing bender is the only thing to use.

[twistedpipes]

i attached a pic of magnaflow's x-pipe 10791 2.5 inch.

[72Challenger]

Originally Posted by dwc43

Any bender that stretches the pipe at a bend is worthless no matter what name they hang on it. You also can not use a bender like that on roll bar tubbing cause it makes it weak in the stretched are of the bend. A real tubbing bender is the only thing to use.

You have just proven you don't understand the bending process. First of all ANY bend will stretch the pipe. It's like driving your car around a turn, the outside wheels travel a farther distance than the inside. Likewise, on a bend the outside radius is longer, the metal MUST be stretched.

What you are referring to is a mandrel bend, which is something most people talk about, know that they want one, but really don't have any idea what it is. First of all, ANY bending machine can produce a mandrel bend. The mandrel is part of the tool set, not the machine. It's not one of the dies, either. To make mandrel bends, the bed of the machine must be longer than the pipe being bent, in order to support the mandrel bar, but any suitable bender can be mounted to that bed. The mandrel is inserted inside the tubing and causes the outside radius to stretch MORE than it would without it! This maintains a more circular shape to the tubing, which is desirable for good flow in an exhaust pipe. It is BAD for roll bar tubing, because the extra stretch actually makes the tubing weaker at the outside radius. You have it backwards, non-mandrel bends are better for roll bars.

(By the way, DW, "tubbing" refers to tubs, "tubing" refers to tubes.)

[dwc43]

Yes, mandrel benders is what I am talking about. And that is what they use to make roll bars with. Any pre built kit or any good cage constructor uses mandrel benders for cages. And I am not really worried too much about the typo's. I know my typing sucks, but thanks for pointing that out again.

[Tarrbabe]

but I was taught that mandrel bends were bends without fold's, rolls or kinks. Any such flaw weakens pipe and interrupts flow through.
????????

[dwc43]

Originally Posted by Tarrbabe

but I was taught that mandrel bends were bends without fold's, rolls or kinks. Any such flaw weakens pipe and interrupts flow through.
????????

We are both right. That's why you need to use them on exhaust and roll bars. You get smooth flow on the exhaust and a stronger bend that wont collapse on a roll cage tube.

[MrChemist]

I’ve never tried their x-pipe, but I do have a set of Hedmen Hustlers (headers)…the good, 1 ¾ primary tubes, thick flange = no leaks, easy spark plug access, easy starter access, good flow…the bad, half way engineering, race oriented header won’t clear my race oil pan without “massaging” the oil pan for 4 hours with a hammer and a torch , header collector hits my tranny pan on the passenger side, tubes 7 & 8 exit through the fender (out comes the sawsall ). Over all I like them, but I’m more concerned about speed than ease of install…well, to a point. For the price, TTI’s are a MUCH better option

[72Challenger]

Originally Posted by dwc43

We are both right. That's why you need to use them on exhaust and roll bars. You get smooth flow on the exhaust and a stronger bend that wont collapse on a roll cage tube.

Yes, it has already been acknowledged that mandrel bends are desirable for exhaust, no one is disputing that. But kindly explain how a tube that is thinner will be stronger. Mandrel bending stretches the outside radius more, and makes the metal thinner. That is a proven fact. I checked several cage kits after your previous post, none of them mentioned that they use mandrel bends. Please tell me what kits you are familiar with that use mandrel bends.

[dwc43]

All of them. And they are not thinner. Matter of fact it prevents them from being so weak in the bend. Take a regular exhaust pipe bender and it leaves those stretched marks or what ever you want to call them on the inside radius and the outside radius looks normal. Can't build a roll cage with that type of bender. Have to use a mandrel bender so that it does not stress the inside radius of the bend.

[MrChemist]

Just my 0.02 worth again. You’re both right, and you’re both wrong. Let’s take a look at this shall we?

DWC: During a mandrel bend (or any bend for that matter) the tubing does have to stretch to retain its shape. If it didn’t stretch it would break; thus, the metal would be too brittle and not suitable for bending. An easy to see example would be something like this:
Roll a piece of play-doh out in the shape of a tube (or snake if you have kids). Pick up the play-doh and bend it over approximately 180 degrees. Notice the outside of the bend is stressed and cracked, not as smooth as the rest. This demonstrates the stretching that 72challenger was referring to.

72challenger: When tubing is bent using a “regular” bender, the tubing ends up with the inner part of the bend looking crimped and distorted. This partially collapsed inner wall weakens the structural integrity of the tube; therefore, is undesirable in roll bar construction. The shape of the tube has a lot to do with the strength. Here is another easy to see example:
Take a drinking straw (not a “bendy” straw…although those are cool). Hold it by both ends and gently bend it and manipulate it. Notice it pushes back with some force. Now, bend the straw a little past 90 degrees until it gets a kink. Now bend the straw the same way as at the beginning of this exercise. Notice it bends much easier at the kink with less force required to make the straw bend. This demonstrates the importance of shape as a function of strength.

Yes, both of these examples are a little extreme, but that is just to demonstrate the mechanics of everything on the molecular level without getting overly wordy (Oops, this already gotten wordy…oh well).

As long as the minimum wall thickness is maintained throughout the bends, you should be ok. A strait tube is stronger than one with one or more bends in it; thus, keep the bends to a minimum for maximum strength. I hope t

[kamstra]

Here is my x pipe setup. Works well and gives a quieter exhaust. I used the cheap summit version and modified to fit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkFp6HBjp20

The TTI setup looks great and was not available as a X pipe when I had mine done.

Dr Gas is an excellent piece that I would consider for all out performance.( ie 3 1/2 to 3 inch) I thionk Dr Gas is the only one that makes this.

Most people report a decent increase in performance. I am very happy with it especially compared to my old flowmaster system sitting in my Garage.

[RAM MAN]

thanks for the info

the video link

and the pic

What mufflers are you using with that setup, kamstra ?

sounds good

[kamstra]

Ram man Thank you, They are TTI stepped headers and dynomax mufflers. I have Flowmaster too but I really don't like them.