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View Poll Results: How much HP/CID do you consider streetable with a Mopar V8?
1.0 HP/CID 4 8.00%
1.1 HP/CID 5 10.00%
1.2 HP/CID 11 22.00%
1.3 HP/CID 14 28.00%
1.4 HP/CID 1 2.00%
1.5 HP/CID 15 30.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 04-11-2001, 02:42 AM
Jims451 Jims451 is offline
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Question

What do you think the current HP/CID of a streetable Mopar V8 is or should be?

Back in the 1980's 1.0 HP/CID was considered a good number to shoot for in a combination that was streetable.
Today 1.0 HP/CID is pretty easy to build and not very expensive.
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  #2  
Old 04-11-2001, 03:18 AM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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I'm not voting in your survey for two reasons:

1) the definition of "streetable" can be very different between different people, and

2) the ways to obtain streetable power can be so different.

Are you allowing for forced induction or nitrous? If so, your survey doesn't go nearly high enough. In the late '80s the Dodge 2.2L Stage II turbo put out 227 Hp with a full factory warranty. That's almost 1.7 Hp/ci. Yes, it had overhead cams and 4 valves per cylinder, but those levels are also attainable in a V-8, and actually can be fairly easily exceeded (with enough money). And what about a mild small block with a 250 Hp nitrous shot? Again, about 1.7.

And does streetable mean a weekend warrior that runs on pump premium with octane booster, or a daily driver your wife can take to the grocery store? I've seen street-driven vehicles, normally aspirated, putting out about 2 Hp/ci, but they don't fit my definition of streetable. But someone thinks they are.
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  #3  
Old 04-11-2001, 06:47 AM
Jims451 Jims451 is offline
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Let me clarify, I'm asking you what YOU consider streetable (not what I think), but only for the normally asperated Mopar V-8 engines, no nitrous, no blowers, no turbos, and running pump gas.

Basically what would be streetable with a well matched (and reasonably priced) heads, cam, intake, carb, exhaust, compression, converter and reasonable gearing (3.23:1 to 4.10:1) for a street car.

The whole reason for this post is to find out what each of us considers streetable.
Currently I consider that about 1.3 HP/CID is close to the edge where the engine is still streetable.
That would equate to 572HP from a 440 cid engine, or 468 HP from a 360 cid engine.
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  #4  
Old 04-11-2001, 10:09 AM
bubby440 bubby440 is offline
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jim451, i have 2 446s built for the street (1) 473 hp w/hydraulic camshaft, 9.6:1, ran it for 9 years without failure. (2) new engine est. 593 hp w/mech. cam,10.1:1, have approx. 240 miles on it, not enough to really tell how streetable but i haven't had any problems yet.

3850 lb B body / 3000 stall / 4.10 / DOTs

#1 - 12.42 @ 110
#2 - ?
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  #5  
Old 04-11-2001, 05:40 PM
451Mopar 451Mopar is offline
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bubby440, so your pretty close to the 1.3HP/CID also?
How streetable do you consider the engine to be?
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  #6  
Old 04-11-2001, 10:37 PM
bubby440 bubby440 is offline
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i consider this engine borderline streetable (in my book) it requires a little racing fuel mix with 94 SUNOCO. I cruised the car last sunday for about 30-40 minutes 6 miles to town cruised in town stop light to stop light & 6 miles back home. the weather was 78 f & hum. @ 45%, the coolant temp never got above 200 (aluminum rad.) & oil pressure never dropped below 30psi hot in gear. being streetable depends on how much & how bad you want to drive it .
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  #7  
Old 04-11-2001, 11:13 PM
PLUM CRZY PLUM CRZY is offline
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Streetable????.....my definition would be, as much horsepower you can build and still run PUMP gas. no racing mixes. just down to the local gas station and fill 'er up with 93 please!....what that HP number is???...i dont know.
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  #8  
Old 04-12-2001, 08:45 AM
bubby440 bubby440 is offline
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i can drive to the local 76 station and get 100 from the pump. this is unleaded fuel - 3.89 a gal.
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  #9  
Old 04-12-2001, 03:39 PM
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Lee Pritchard Lee Pritchard is offline
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Cool hp on the street

My roadrunner uses a 496 bottom end with an isky 507 hyd cam..M1 intake and 800 holley dp..the car has 355 gears and NO convertor..the heads are 906 with stock valves, but are ported.... it runs on pump(10.25.1) and gets better mpg that my 98 rams SST!! all that said it runs high 11.s on BFG dots.. so i would call that a real street car for everday use...I already have one car to hot for the street so i need one thats really driveable.I will be adding the new edelbrock heads very soon, I can't wait to see the outcome !!!!
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  #10  
Old 04-13-2001, 12:47 PM
Chargerchuck Chargerchuck is offline
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I agree with 72 Challenger, the definition of what is "streetable" is pretty subjective. Just as a point of comparison, my "other car" has a 2.5 liter six that puts out 190 HP and is one of the smoothest running engines you will find, even after over 150K miles. This is close to your 1.3 horses per CID, but if I know with a computer chip I can add 10 more HP (and putting it over the 1.3 CID Mark) and still pass smog inspections, etc. Conversely, if my '72 440 put out 1.3 HP per CID (no nitrous) I'm certain I would notice a difference in "streetability" over my current 350 net H.P. configuration. This difference may not be for the better. To me, streetability means retaining some of the car's desired driving charecteristics including having enough vacuum to use my power brakes and on those real hot days, my A/C. But I realize many serious street rodders have completely different standards. There's no right or wrong answer and that's what makes this whole question moot.
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  #11  
Old 04-13-2001, 06:37 PM
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FuryusVIP FuryusVIP is offline
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Biggrin Subjective questions receive relative answers..here's mine

I would tend to agree with ChargerChuck and the other posts about the term "streetable." In my eyes a .055 over 440 (452cid) with a .650 roller, 11.2 or so CR, 4,800 stall, 4.30's and 29x15.5-15 is streetable... Meaning, to me anyways, that I can cruise this car 60 miles one way to the track, run some laps, go home and cruise for 6 more hours and not over heat or break anything. I have done this with my SportFury, a few times. Does it drink gas? Yes, on the day metioned above I filled the 20 gal cell up 3 or 4 times with 93, and a bottle of boost everyother fill up. The key is what can YOU deal with? I had a blast driving my car while my friends towed theirs. I would guess that my HP ratio is somewhere around the 1.2 to 1.3 area, givin the weight of the car and the elapsed time. While some may say 'No way you drove that car so far with the combo above', I would reply that research and finding GOOD people with the correct information is the key. My converter was built for MY CARS COMBO, not off the shelf. I had the TCI blues before, way loose, but kinda cool. AT FIRST. After talking with Gene @ Liberty Convertors ( I've got to find his new number) and telling him what I had and what I planned to do with it, he made a converter that stalls just shy of 5,000 rpm, BUT will pull away from a stopsign at light throttle, and still lock up on the big end of the strip. This, to me, was nothing short of amazing. Same thing with the Crower cam, which bleeds off some cylinder psi at low rpms, allowing me to run a higher CR with iron heads and no pinging.


Ok, so the bottom line is this... 1.2 or 1.3 seems to be about the limit for a 'streetable' (there is that word again) non-boosted, single cammed, pushrod actuated valvetrain dinosaurs form Mother that we have come to love. When you start pushing the 1.4, 1.5 and up, the price of the engine and parts goes way up. That is untill you add a EFI unit to one and start tweaking your laptop... But that IS yet another post....
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2001, 11:04 PM
Dustbuster Dustbuster is offline
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well you could make a street engine that could run on pump 92 octane that could do better than 1.3 IF you have enough money and time and knowledge and all that other stuff

first BIG CARB (or duels!) edel's new 800 is a really nice carb (stuck one on my hulk pullin chev 350)

the air-gap manifold makes OODLES of more power! especially with ram air designs and hood scoops

what about aluminum heads? they can support HUGE amounts of flow

the new Xtreme cams that produce on average 40+hp out of the box on ported heads

friction savers? light weight oils? eletctric water pumps and fans? better gaskets all round? the choices are endless if your bank account is

i believe near 2hp per cid is possible IF everything is done right...

i have seen 470hp 360's done this way (Car Craft) now it wouldn't take much to get that extra hp from the engine but you do start taking chances
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  #13  
Old 04-13-2001, 11:14 PM
Dustbuster Dustbuster is offline
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oh one more thing we have to remeber mixing power adders, yes everyone with a big block doesn't want a blower, well i don't like big blocks, i know 273-360 and the /6 inside and out and i know that one of these engines could be made to make over 2.0hp per cid

who read the 1000 horsepower challenger? it has intercooler,supercharger, efi...but no nitro yet....was only a bored over 383 block..nothing special till he got his hands on it....was a true street car too!

1000 horses! what if you run a 500 pony NOS fogger system through it? you'd be pushin 2000 hp
now let me spell that out for you TWO THOUSAND HORSEPOWER!!! its possible....very possible, he could have that challenger down into the 7's maybe 6's

very possible....highly unlikely ;-)
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  #14  
Old 04-14-2001, 07:54 PM
BILL THOMPSON BILL THOMPSON is offline
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Smile blow it

I personally have 583 H.P at the rear wheels of my 1939 dodge coupe (Its a 388 cid big block with a 6:71 B.D.S blower + I log 10000 miles a summer in it + punched out 15 mile per gallon on the high way.
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  #15  
Old 04-17-2001, 07:08 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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I've got 1.48 hp/cu in in mine.
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  #16  
Old 12-21-2001, 03:50 PM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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I would not say the question is moot. It's just an opinion. I think the words "Should be" should be removed from the question at hand.
The def. of streetable is what ever you think it is. Not what is.
Power adders or not. But if you use power adders like the blower/turbo or No2, then vote with that in mind and say so if you wish.

72 challenger;

Whats your thoughts on whats streetable?
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  #17  
Old 12-21-2001, 11:38 PM
Moparjimbo Moparjimbo is offline
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I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but:

My twin turbo Stealth is pushing around 550 HP from the stock internal 3.0L.

15G turbos, 550CC injectors, VPC (fuel controller), SAFC (fuel controller), AVCR (boost controller) @18-20 psi, 3" exhaust no cats, no MAS, big K&N.

I also have a Laser(Talon) with around 350HP from the stock internal 2.0L. Similar mods to the Stealth.

You guys are missing out on these cars!

My Charger is only around 450HP from the mild 440 right now, but I have a Muscle motors 496 in the works. They tell me I should be able to get around 650HP with slightly worked Indy SR heads.
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  #18  
Old 12-22-2001, 04:30 AM
KM KM is offline
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I do think that 1.5 is nothing !!!

I have 1.48 and my car is totally streetable.
Do not ask how much I have spent to get it there though
I would like to get more out of mine and eventually I think I will.
So, I believe that at 1.7....1.8 it can still be streetable..More ??
I wouldn´t be suprised if someone says even 2.? and still be somewhat streetable......

(471" 10.5cr Barton Hemi)
Kimm
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  #19  
Old 12-22-2001, 02:55 PM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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Jimbo;

Your just licking a different flavor of icecream. Thats all. TT Stealth, very cool. 1 of these days (Get ready for the pipe dream)
is a TT 360 in my Cuda..or a Dodge Magnum. (Miss my Magnum.)
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  #20  
Old 12-22-2001, 03:51 PM
69Dodgedart360 69Dodgedart360 is offline
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Default wow

wow.
550 hp in an awd stick car.
who thinks that would be a lot of fun?
and remember, that engine is pushing 3 hp per cubic inch.
that's sick
and the talon is almost 3hp/ci as well.
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  #21  
Old 12-23-2001, 02:53 AM
Magnum440 Magnum440 is offline
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Default 1.5

I dont think these type of questions are totally moot. Besides being fun, this can be educational, as well. Subjective? Oh, yeah! The three obvious variables might be: Gas availability, driveabilty and dependability. Compromises can be found, from person to person, in what he or she is willing to sacrifice in order to drive much on the street. So that is where the subjectivity comes in. Now, I'm speaking strictly within the guidelines of the question as defined by Jim. There is the "grey" area, tho, IMO concerning gas availabilty. If, as was stated in a post, you can go down to the 76 Station and get "pump 100-110"octain then that, for you, IS pump gas! (BTW, I can do this, too--costs $3.39 per for me) BUT, that would be a COMPROMISE that I agree to live with if I want to run 12 to 1 CR in my "street" car! For some, this would'nt even be in the equation. Well, probably for most! But I hope you see my point. Another example: I know from reading other posts by DartGT66, that he does not plan on driving that car on the street much--correct me if I'm wrong, Dart. Why? Because he knows that sustained street driving on motors making that kind of hp per inch is risky. Who knows WHAT you might encounter on the road?! And why gamble when you've got $$$$$ tied up in a car? Well...I'll shut up now. thanks my .02
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  #22  
Old 12-23-2001, 09:18 AM
383-man 383-man is offline
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Streetable ? Thats a tuff one that could have very many opinions ! I will just say that I built my 383 Dart on a tight budget as I am a family man and I used many used parts since my brother and I are Mopar nuts and had alot of Mopar parts lying around! My car is a 383 with stock bore & pistons and stock 452 heads milled .060 and some mild pocketporting with stock rockers and the MP .484 cam ! I use 3.91,s a and a TA tight 3000 10" convertor and I would say it probably makes around 400 hp at the flywheel as its run 12.41 @ 110 ! So I would say for me the average Joe that 1 hp per cubic inch or just a little more is a streetable figure in the budget!! Sure I would like to go faster but I am happy with my combo as I can afford it and drive it anywhere !! Ron
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  #23  
Old 12-23-2001, 02:40 PM
Dave Hench Dave Hench is offline
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Biggrin 1.48 horse per cube?

Would you be willing to share what your combo is?
Getting ready to build a "new" motor. Was shooting for 640 from 446 inches. I used to drive a MaxWedge on the street (only car), but Sunoco Blue was readily available ($.25 gal.)
thanks,
Von Hench
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  #24  
Old 12-27-2001, 04:40 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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True, I don't drive it a lot anymore. The main reason is money, pump gas here is currently close to 4$ a gallon, our wages are lower htan in the US, and I've got a family and house loans etc. And I'm not usually in a hurry, so I can drive with the Neon get aboutfour times the mileage and it's also more comfortable than the Dart. We are at a a situation here with KM, that if something breaks, we just can't go to a shop and buy some spare parts, fix it and go on. Everything is special order and it takes weeks or months and cost a lot. So I don't want to take a chance and spare the car for the runs I really want to do and only drive it once or maybe twice a week.
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  #25  
Old 12-27-2001, 12:33 PM
KM KM is offline
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Unhappy

Dart answered for me too.....
I get about 10 mpg driving nicely.....my car just ain´t build to drive nicely......or atleast I can´t .......

So, I don´t drive it too much ( about 2000 miles last summer) with our gas prices

But again I say that >1.5 can be built for street if your budget ain´t too tight

K
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  #26  
Old 10-10-2003, 11:16 AM
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Not to drag this backward a bit, but I think the average v8 enthusiast runs less than 1 hp / cubic inch.

Every guy with a 350 camaro thinks he's running 300 hp and 13 seconds. Most run in the 15's and 16's. Use a calculator and thats around the 200 to 250 hp ball park.

I guess the answer to the query is, whatever you can afford, and think is streetable.

Most people would be very satisfied with 1 hp/cube, if they had a chance to drive such a car.

For the guys who have done better, I'm glad to hear it
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  #27  
Old 10-10-2003, 12:52 PM
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As they said, the definition is what determines it. I want to have one that drives like a 2 barrel 318 at cruise, gets good mileage, 92 octane, very quite, idles at 650,.

Twin turbo 340 at 600 hp 1.75hp/cid-20mpg-drive it anywhere.

Without a power adder, I wouldn't go above 1.0 for the street, if I were going to drive it a lot.
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  #28  
Old 10-10-2003, 01:11 PM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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In the streetable hp thing, EFI turbos are definitely the way to go. Once you try it, there is no coming back. But although it seems like an easy way, when you start looking for more it isnät going to be either easy or cheap. I have been planning for that, but just don't have the 10000$+ needed at the moment or the room needed for everything, and I would have problems making it street legal here. Maybe if I get enough money I'll build a '65 L 300 chrysler with an aluminum EFI intercooled BB, drive it to the races and run super comp with it! But if you don't try to reach the moon, turbocharging is a pretty inexpensive way to get a lot of power. A 300 hp engine with 1 bar of boost will give 600hp
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  #29  
Old 10-10-2003, 06:19 PM
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I looked at this from the N/A pushrod V8 perspective and know of several in the 1.6+ range.
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Old 10-11-2003, 04:47 AM
DartGT66 DartGT66 is offline
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That's pretty good for a pump gasser, I know my 1.48 isn't that bad either for a big engine.
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