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  #1  
Old 04-01-2002, 07:46 PM
TwiZtiD440 TwiZtiD440 is offline
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Exclamation Realistic Streetable 10-11 second car

Ok for you racer's and old timers with LOTS of experince out there, please tell me if this is a realistic Idea. A 97 or newer dakota, with me and engine, full tank of gas ect, weighing in at 3500-3600 Lbs.

Chasis:

Back Havled 4 link suspension, coil over's.
3.9 or 4.1 locker or posi rear.
P335/30 ZR18 rear tires.
Fuel Cells and battery in the bed over the axle.
Hard Tanneu ( how ever you spell it ) cover.

Engine + Trans:

Keep it short, a streetable 500-550 horse n/a on pump gas Chrysler 440, hooked up to either a beefed up A833, or a Kiesler 5 speed, or a converted T-56 ( I think thats what its called ) chibby 6 speed.

Is this possibly a realistic combo for a high 10 or low 11 time?

The formula's and all that junk does'nt really factor everything in, and there not accurate. This is why I'm asking for some people with REAL experince that have seen, or heard, or done something similar to this.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2002, 09:17 PM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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Well, a truck is basicly a brick and harder to move through the air.
550 hp should do the trick. A 5spd would be a great idea. Not just for the overdrive. I also think that backhalfing isn't necc. at this point. Use the 4.10's as a min. gear. I would use somthing along the 4.56's. Wide, fat A$$ tires. I think it's possible.

440 with fully ported Edel. heads (As a min, Brodix heads should be looked at.), Comp cams 296 mech cam min. (Hughes split cam would work well in here.) , single plane M-1 or equal. 850cfm,
10.5-1 comp. ratio (Pump gas OK due to aluminum heads) Big tube headers. 2 inch pri.
Also get yourself, if the wallet allows, a glass hood. A couple of lost pounds can't hurt.
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  #3  
Old 04-02-2002, 01:58 AM
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Marc Marc is offline
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Look up the truck "Flodin" has at Flodin Automatic Transmissions. He has a full interior etc, used to be his shop truck.
He's out of B.C. Canada, races at Mission Raceways all the time.
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  #4  
Old 04-02-2002, 02:24 AM
Tarrbabe Tarrbabe is offline
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Default 10 seconds?

Ok, so I'm a dummie, but for that kind of performance AND still be streetable, you will need a mildly+ built 440 and a VERY light car or truck. If you must use the full Dakota, your engine will not be streetable except for single runs thru town on saturday night.Dakotas are not known for their light weight.
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  #5  
Old 04-02-2002, 04:14 AM
Jims451 Jims451 is offline
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I don't think a "streetable" 550HP engine in a 3,600 Lb truck will run 10's. Maybe high 11's?
The good news is you could add a plate Nitrous kit for the extra second or so needed to get into the 10's.

You will need alot of saftey equipment to run 10's, and you may want to check if those manual trans boxes (and rear axle) can live at the high torque produced by the Nitrous and 440 combination?
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  #6  
Old 04-02-2002, 09:05 AM
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cuda66273 cuda66273 is offline
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I agree with Jim451, a 10 second street car is a major undertaking. I doubt you could get a 3800 Dakota into the 10,s and still drive it to the track.

The drive line is a major weak link, maybe a Lenco? if you must have a shifter, but milage on a Lenco is gonna kill it. You'll need a minimum of a Dana 60, as many Cubic inches as you can get out of it and Nitrous is gonna be a must. Have you thought about a Huffer? How are you gonna cool this monster?

We run a 3000 pound Dart 440 making about 675-700 crank horsepower and it runs low 10's and it's definatly not streetable.

You may be surprised at how radical your 440 will have to be to push a streetable 3800 pound car just into the 12's.
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  #7  
Old 04-02-2002, 08:44 PM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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Ahhhhh the nitros plate. I knew I forgot something! Yea! try a 500 hp shot!
cuda66273 is right. It's gonna take alot. But if your willing......
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  #8  
Old 04-02-2002, 11:40 PM
TwiZtiD440 TwiZtiD440 is offline
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Default yea

Cuda. I honestly don't know what you mean by huffer. If my bottom end is completly forged, aluminum caps, nice heavy H rods, and a Nitrous piston, as well as retarded timing, how much nitrous could the ol 440 swallow with out "hurting" it?

Hey, for cooling? I was thinking an edelbrock water pump, fluidyne radiator, synthetic oil and have that cooled as well, as well as trans fluid and I'm debating read diff fluid cooling? anyone have some knowledge if this is money well spent?
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  #9  
Old 04-02-2002, 11:45 PM
Jims451 Jims451 is offline
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One of the car magazines put 250+ HP Nitrous shot on a 440 before it blew a head gasket.
If you start with a streetable 500 to 550 HP 440, you may only need a 150 HP shot (for 650-700HP) to get the performance you want.
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  #10  
Old 04-03-2002, 12:07 AM
Fast One Fast One is offline
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A big fat wallet is good for starters.

Stroker crank with as many cubic inches you can squeeze out of it.

Aluminum race heads.

Make the vehicle as light as possible.

Good suspension.

Attention to detail, right down to the smallest nut & bolt.

Streetable 10 second car, heh, heh, good luck.
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  #11  
Old 04-03-2002, 01:51 AM
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The bottle would seem to be the only way.

I looked up a horsepower calculator. Theoretical hp to et calculations, based on weight. to be in the 10's with that kind of weight, you need 600hp.

Keep in mind the calculation will be WHEEL horsepower(since it is theoretical work/time type thing) and with perfect conditions. With traction losses, ect I would think you would need close to 900 crank hp to get that kind of speed.(especially if you look at cuda66273's numbers)

Not realistic to drive on the street.

A customer of mine drives a 66 malibu, that's about 3700lbs, with a 525+hp(dyno'd)454. Its had serious work, the guy knows his stuff/good reputation and runs low 12's. It barely idles but really goes. Rarely driven on the street, because of the idle, and the noise.

And of course, how fat is your wallet?(as put by fast one)

$15000(remember I'm in Canada, so that's only 11000 or so to you guys south of the border) PLUS the cost of the truck?

Probably even MORE with all the safety equip.

I think I may be light on the costs
How much do the racer guys think it would cost? Is my head up my a$$.
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2002, 04:08 AM
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Hmm. What does being streetable really mean? On my opinion it means that the car has got a street suspension, not one of those drag race four link / coil over set ups, and a full interior, ie. no rattle can. And it really should use pump gas. We had a '73 Valiant weighing 3530 lbs that was capable of 10.5 second times with a naturally aspirated 451, so that can be done if there is will. The chassis was pretty much stock and never tweaked much; the springs were moved inboard and SS springs were used. The front T-bars were the "340" versions. Stock shocks all around, a 8.75" sure grip rear with 3.91 ratio, 727 manual valve body with a Dynamic 8" converter. The engine was a 400 based '451' with Eagle rods and ROSS flat tops and about 10.8:1 CR. The cam was a pretty big one with 276/282 degrees and .69/.63" lift, a solid roller. Heads were homeported Stage VI's, intake M1 single plane and the carb a 1000 cfm street demon. 2" primary headers and 3" exhaust were used to achieve a best of 10.54/129.5 mph, through mufflers, on pump gas and with 10.5/26/15 DOT tires. The car was fully streetable and served us in different stages for over 10 years but was retired last fall to return one day with some TT/FI/IC/BB power. The parts described above were from the final stage but we tried different cam & carb combos during the years ending to those. What was the most fun with the car is that it was a four door sedan and had no ttrouble finding competitors in the streets. I'll try to attach a picture of it and my Dart at a start of a smoky run through the 1/4.
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  #13  
Old 04-03-2002, 08:30 AM
todd440 todd440 is offline
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What pistons are you running? This will help to determine what amount of juice you can put to it. Other factors to look at are piston to wall clearance and ring gap.
I'm with everyone else on this. Weight savings will relly help you to achieve this goal.
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  #14  
Old 04-03-2002, 08:36 AM
smokindatires smokindatires is offline
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A Huffer is a supercharger. Just slang for it.

Rob
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  #15  
Old 04-03-2002, 09:13 AM
gregsdart gregsdart is offline
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Default 10 sec?

One of my friends bracket races a full sized fury, has eddy heads with a little pocket cleanup done, a .590 MP cam, 850 holley leaf springs, 3600 race wieght, 9.5 compression and runs 11.20 on a good day. I can see the car running three tenths quicker at least if the pistons were not .047 down the hole, and it had a roller cam of some sort. So what you propose is not out of question, but the more streetable you want, the more cubes you will need to launch that big brick! My suggestion would be a 4.15 crank, or if they are available, the new 4.25 cast crank from ma mopar! The eddy heads cleaned up to flow at least 290, and a street roller cam to give you the grunt and keep the total duration down to a street livable level. The extra cubes allow a much more street friendly convertor as well.
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  #16  
Old 04-03-2002, 11:42 AM
TwiZtiD440 TwiZtiD440 is offline
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A would'nt consider it a brick, the reason i figure 3600-3700 is worst case scenario, www.4adodge.com says that a regular cab dakota with a lil v6 weighs 3300 something, I don't know exactly how much more weight will result from what I'm taking out, what I'm modding, or what I'm replacing. I figure though, between the boat anchor (440) even with alum. heads, a hard tanneu cover, those alone will tack on an extra 200-300 lbs at least. 4 link suspension with coil over shock, and a locker rear is a still a streetable chasis build up right? I was thinking about that the other day, I think it is, but then again, I've never driven in one. Is that a "streetable" combo?

I know what I'm trying to do seems a little "weird" or different, I'm just sick of all the damn 12 and 11 second "street legal" 5.0's and wanna be fast ricers, there everywhere! There plaguing our streets, I'd like to create something Unique and remains in all the minds that I come across. How often would you see a dakota that not only looks good, but can take nearlly everything on the street? I know it will take me alot of money and alot of time to build, but being 17 I can put all my money into this project.
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  #17  
Old 04-03-2002, 12:18 PM
451 Jim 451 Jim is offline
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I have a street '73 Barracuda 440 with a mild hydraulic cam that runs 11.77 at 3700 pounds total race weight. My new bracket car, '69 Dart 451 with an Ultradyne 0.609" lift solid cam has run 10.35 at 129 mph (so far) at 3150 pounds.

I think mid to low 11's is do-able. However, running 10's in a steet car of that weight is pretty hard and will take significant work and money.
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  #18  
Old 04-03-2002, 02:10 PM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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TwiZtiD440, your Dodge truck is a brick. It's high in the air and aero dyn. challenged. Now don't point to the pro stock trucks because your not going to have your truck looking like that. But that would be interesting.
OH, streetable is what ever you can handle. The police on the other hand may give a lecture on streetablity and a ticket or to for the policemans ball.
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2002, 06:00 PM
one bad dakota one bad dakota is offline
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If your going to go with a truely streetable package, you must run a modest cam and compression ratio. Having those two daunting limitations, the only way I can see you attain your goal is to go with big,big cubes(500-600) with state-of-the-art-heads. It could easily be attainable with a S/C or turbo,but than your getting into a lot of coin. Of course that BB stroker isn't going to be cheap either.
Tom
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  #20  
Old 04-03-2002, 06:54 PM
Fast One Fast One is offline
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17 & you like big HP Mopars? Well you couldn't ask for a better start in life.

I encourage you to continue in your Mopar interests & hope you achieve your goals.

Getting into 10's for a street car isn't impossible but will take a lot of planning ( & money ).

Good luck!

Let us know what you end up doing..
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  #21  
Old 04-03-2002, 08:03 PM
TwiZtiD440 TwiZtiD440 is offline
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Will do, thanks guys !

I think I'll be realistic and AIM for low 11's, and make something in the 10's possible with some no2, however I would catch hell from all my dad's buddies, and my auto teacher and alot of pther peep for using Nitro in a big block. But hey, its "STREETABLE" not designed JUST for track so hey, they'll understand

Anyone know the guy up at Best Auto, the guy in the back Machine shop? I forgot his name really nice guy though, I walk back there and theres 528 Hemi's just sitting there all dressed up, this is me --->

He told me that they have actually managed to put one of these into a 00 dakota, same suspension I'm talking about, however the gas mileage and tires are something i really would'nt be able to cope with, lol.
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