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  #1  
Old 09-29-2005, 11:25 AM
73scamp318 73scamp318 is offline
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Default Build me a SB that can handle 900hp..

Well my main question is will i be able to use a stock block? or will i have to go r3? this will be a turbo motor and 900hp is on pump gas, more on race gas.

Which rods?eagle says good to 800hp + but whats +? 850? i have to hav pistons made anyways so thats not a problem.

Well i guess just rods and block is all i need to know, any other issues?

it will be a 4in stroker, but piston bore depends, on stock block, or r3, if R3 then iwill go to 4.18 which will be a 440.

It shouldn't be hard to make 900hp on pump gas, there are a handful of phords and chebys making over 1000hp on pump gas with smaller motors (ls1's and 351's)

I wouldn't mind keeping my roller cam 318 block and just making a 390, hell even a 318 with a forged crank, i have seen 302's at 900hp.

I already have my turbo (holset h2d) and my headers (truck stanless steel
headers) also going EFI with a megasquirt system. (already have)

This is going into my 73 scamp and i would like to see 9's, i really only need 750hp. but i want a short block that can handle 1000 incase i want to upgrade the chassis.

Thanks
Steve
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  #2  
Old 09-29-2005, 11:49 AM
TK TK is offline
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900HP 302!?




Lots of money, that is all I can say, and, use a RB, I would think it would cost more to build a LA.
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  #3  
Old 09-29-2005, 11:56 AM
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i don't think i would tackle a 750-900 hp la without 4 bolt mains ...go with the r3
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  #4  
Old 09-29-2005, 05:17 PM
73scamp318 73scamp318 is offline
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i don't want to go big block, plus if i can make a 440 la why go rb? the la is going to much lighter. I guess ill have to try to buy my dads r3 from him, along with the backhalf kit!

Steve
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  #5  
Old 09-29-2005, 07:01 PM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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Quote:
73; Well my main question is will i be able to use a stock block? or will i have to go r3? this will be a turbo motor and 900hp is on pump gas, more on race gas.
R-fish. R -3 block or better.

Quote:
73; Which rods?eagle says good to 800hp + but whats +? 850? i have to hav pistons made anyways so thats not a problem.
r-fish; Speak to Carrillo or other serious makers.

Quote:
'7 3Well i guess just rods and block is all i need to know, any other issues?
RF; Yes, serious issues. Speak to a builder.

Quote:
73 it will be a 4in stroker, but piston bore depends, on stock block, or r3, if R3 then iwill go to 4.18 which will be a 440.
RF; LOL, Bigger is better here when were talking displacement and power.

Quote:
73; It shouldn't be hard to make 900hp on pump gas, there are a handful of phords and chebys making over 1000hp on pump gas with smaller motors (ls1's and 351's)
RF; True, but the overall package needs to be seriously looked at.

Quote:
73; I wouldn't mind keeping my roller cam 318 block and just making a 390, hell even a 318 with a forged crank, i have seen 302's at 900hp.
RF; It would be smarter to use big cubes and a stronger than strong block. But hey, it's your money and build.

Quote:
73; I already have my turbo (holset h2d) and my headers (truck stanless steel
headers) also going EFI with a megasquirt system. (already have)
RF; OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, parts parts parts, do tell about them.

Quote:
73; This is going into my 73 scamp and i would like to see 9's, i really only need 750hp. but i want a short block that can handle 1000 incase i want to upgrade the chassis.
RF\Ahhhh, don't we all. Good luck in the search for all you need. Wish I could be of serious help. Haven't been there, but look very foward to what you do and achieve when you fire it all up.

Take tons
Thanks
Steve
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  #6  
Old 09-29-2005, 07:29 PM
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909duster 909duster is offline
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Default why build

IMOP after the NHRA, IHRA season ends go to the back of National Dragster and buy a supercomp motor thats for sale most of them will be all set up with new rings and bearings and for the price of some of them you couldn't buy the pieces, machine work, labor etc for the same $$$ then sell for.

When PRo stock truck died a couple of years ago,Patterson Engines were sell the P5-R4 motors for less then $15,000.00, you, we all of us couldn't build it for that money, 980 HorsePower.

Just IMOP.
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  #7  
Old 09-29-2005, 08:32 PM
turbododge turbododge is offline
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Do you plan on making your horsepower with lots of boost or lots of rpm? It will make a big difference in what you need and want for components.
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  #8  
Old 09-29-2005, 09:23 PM
73scamp318 73scamp318 is offline
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Well i guess im going to buy my dads block and crank, R3 siemese bore and a forged 3.31 crank. now just rods.....

well i would think both rpms and boost but it should peak around 6500 or so and not fall off at till over 7000.

Should i still bore it to 4.18? i would think it could only help with 14psi.

Steve
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  #9  
Old 09-29-2005, 10:28 PM
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If you really want to play with the "local gang", purchase a used, obsolete Nascar Truck or Busch engine. With good carbs, you can get 850+ without turbo boost. If you want to go further than that, then go to the turbo. You will need to have the roller cam reground to fit turbo specs and change pistons, but that is minor $$$ compared to the overall cost.

You will need to set up a dry sump system---they have no provision for wet sump.

If you purchase a used Nascar engine, make sure you buy it complete!

There is nothing nicer than a 10,000RPM street engine!
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  #10  
Old 09-29-2005, 11:15 PM
73scamp318 73scamp318 is offline
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if i knew where to buy one at a good price i maybe would, but i have everything now, crank block, turbo and headers. Also the efi system

Steve
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  #11  
Old 09-30-2005, 02:03 AM
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dont those stock blocks spit right down the middle? Good for you on getting that R3 block, and 850 on gas? wow, that is amazing. question, how long do those ford and chevy 900 hp+ motors last? I know the ricers usually get about 10 runs in before major overhaulin...
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2005, 05:01 AM
Rust collector Rust collector is offline
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I would leave the cylinder walls as thick as possible...
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  #13  
Old 09-30-2005, 06:53 AM
73scamp318 73scamp318 is offline
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They are street driven also, there is a guy that has a 4wd cheby truck that is making 1000hp to the ground with a iron ls1, and he drives it on the street, and drove it 300miles to a race, and thats 1300hp at the flywheel on pump gas.

Steve
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  #14  
Old 09-30-2005, 08:37 AM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pishta
dont those stock blocks spit right down the middle?
Yes, member dewme5 split his create engine right down the middle in the cam journals running a bit of boost.
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2005, 01:51 PM
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7000 rpm and 14 psi will give you a lot of hp, but will be hard on the engine. The rpm will be the most damaging, as 14 psi is not at all excessive. You will need the best of everything if you want it to survive. As far as rods go, the Carillo suggestion was a good one. Head gaskets on small blocks are very prone to blow in boosted engines. Mixture control and tuning will have to be spot on, at 7000 rpm and 14 psi, even a whisper of detonation could cause very severe damage to the best built engine. Head and piston design and prep can help a lot.

The other thing to remember is old standard "2500 rpm rule", which saws you will get about 2500 useful rpm with a turbo setup. This would give you 4500 to 7000 rpm of big power, but at lower rpms it will be a total stone, requiring a very loose convertor. High rpm turbo cars can be very "unfun" to drive on the street, as they are very unresponsive until they get spooled up.

This would qualify as an all out engine in my book, and will need to be done with extreme attention to every detail, if you want it to work. A very large proportion of very high (and even moderate) turbo engines self destruct within a year. Dewme did split a stock 360 block right down the middle, most likely because of detonation/mixture issues.
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2005, 02:42 PM
73scamp318 73scamp318 is offline
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well im going to do everything possible to make sure it doesn't detenate, coating on the valves and pistons, polished chambers.

Ill probably take alittle longer on the build and ill go with 59* w9 heads.
my dad has an extra 4200 stall converter o that should work well, i used it on the street with my .508 cam in my old 318 and i didn't mind.

Steve
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  #17  
Old 09-30-2005, 02:56 PM
turbododge turbododge is offline
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One thing to remember when you start looking at heads is that they can flow a lot less than the same hp NA engine. At 14 psi and 900hp, if you have heads that would support 500 NA, you will have more than enough. Depending on how you figure, that is only about 250cfm on the intakes, and you can get that out of a set of Eddies. By staying with smaller flow, you get smaller ports and higher velocity, which is very good for cyinder fill and turbulence, which can really improve detonation resistance and combustion efficiency. I agree that polishing, coating valves, etc is good to help prevent detonation, but the biggest and most common cause of detonation is mixture and cylinder imbalance. It dwarfs all other causes IMHO. You can easily get enough airflow imbalance from a single plane manifold to cause some cylinders to detonate, even with EFI with individual cylinder fueling. If you are using a carb it is even worse, and harder to address. If it is a streeter, and you need good driveability, it complicates even more. What you find is that a lot of people are running A/F ratios at 10 to keep from detonating. This costs them hp, fouls plugs, pistons, valves, and generally shortens engine life. What is probably happening in a lot of these engines is that you have one or two cylinders that are actually running much leaner than the others and are doing the detonating. Correcting the balance might allow 11.5 or 12 A/F without detonation and make more hp. Surprisingly, with EFI the problem can be worse than with a carb.
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  #18  
Old 09-30-2005, 10:14 PM
73scamp318 73scamp318 is offline
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i have some magnums that are being ported and im going to keep the 1.92 valves. I guess with upgraded rod bolts the eagle will take 1000hp with the small block. well i can get my dads stock stroke forged crank and run a .030 over pistons or go with a 3.58 stroke and .020 over forged pistons...will it make that big of a difference?

Steve
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  #19  
Old 10-01-2005, 07:31 PM
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Please, Please, Please don't put too much faith in the Eagle rods. They are good replacement performance rods but I have seen too many fail at the 500HP (or less) level.

The same can be said for a Mopar Performance crank. The 4340 cranks are pretty good, but the 1053 cranks are made out of the same material as stock cranks. The only difference is the rod journals aren't undercut as stock cranks.

The R3, 48 degree block is a good unit---good to 900HP but not much more.

Your bottom end is important, especially at a 900HP level. "A house is only as good as its foundation".
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  #20  
Old 10-02-2005, 10:17 PM
73scamp318 73scamp318 is offline
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Im pretty sure that an r3 block will handle more that 900hp in a drag car, it is totally different than a oval car.
My dad is running a stock cast 360 crank, stock rods and block and making close to 600hp. Its not at peak rpm that long, 3 times, 2 it shifts and the 3rd your ou tof it after a sec.
i already have the pistons and crank so what other rod is a replacement?

im sure the forged crank is good also, i shouldn't need a billet crank for 900hp. espcially at only 7000rpm, maybe 7500.

Im thiking 3.32 gears also, but changing to a dana as im backhalfing the car with a 4link.

Steve
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  #21  
Old 10-03-2005, 05:59 PM
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Its kinda hard to believe that stock crank and rods hold 600 hp, much less that it even makes that from the sound of it. Not doubting you, just far fetched. Good luck on 59* w-9's... Typically forged cranks are as strong if not stronger that billet. I wouldn't trust a stock crank, or eagle rods for any thing over 450 hp.

Just my .02 worth
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  #22  
Old 10-03-2005, 08:13 PM
73scamp318 73scamp318 is offline
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well his user name is skankweirdal, and it definitely lives fine, it will run 10.50 in a 3100# car. he also won the track championship, look in the drag racing forum, and before that he had eagle rods in a 340 that revved to 8500 with no problems.

And whats wrong with the w9 59* heads?

Steve
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  #23  
Old 10-03-2005, 08:32 PM
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900 hp takes lots of $$$ and more than just bolting together some high $ parts,it will take someone like shady dell to build a smallblock like that,not a home brew job,waynebo
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  #24  
Old 10-04-2005, 07:51 PM
BDS 871 Cuda BDS 871 Cuda is offline
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Default Is this real?

Everyone on this site is offering helpfull info, and you keep saying you know everything. 900 or more HP is hard on a race RB block and even harder on a race small block. Eagle rods? don't kid yourself, they are ok for sportsman cars under 500 HP. Carillo or Oliver rods is the only way to go when you think your going to make over 900 HP.

If you want to build PRO horsepower you need PRO parts. Cheap parts, and it might not make it past the dyno.

I sure hope you smart enough to dyno tune this motor.
Also, call INDY Cylinder Head, they can be more helpfull than any of us.
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  #25  
Old 10-04-2005, 08:10 PM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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I don't know why he bothered to ask in here either some of you guys don't have any idea. 450 HP on Eagles? According to them they'll take over 1100 with the correct rod bolts. I see no reason to doubt that, you guys are set on overkill.

Don't trust the stock stuff for 600 HP, are you for real? That was always the beauty of Mopars, the factory stuff could take the heat the chevy and ford junk couldn't come close to. And yes I can make 600 HP with a NA 340 with half my brain tied behind my back. Oh and some stock stuff too.

Maybe you guys should stick to adjusting the gap on your pinion snubbers and wondering which Super Stock spring is best for your car. Maybe go port some X heads.
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  #26  
Old 10-04-2005, 10:10 PM
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From what i saw on another site Ryan at shadydell said the "R" block can handle more power than you can put to them.
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  #27  
Old 10-04-2005, 11:11 PM
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Well igot w5's on mine and ladder bars but i don't thank this kids gonna build
,in fact i know he can't build a 900 hp smallblock,and eagle rods for that kind of power ha ha,bust an r3 block wide open when they come out,besides if you got money to build a 900hp smallblock you can buy the best parts i would think,this ain't a backyard barbeque,of course it could be LOL,
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  #28  
Old 10-04-2005, 11:32 PM
73scamp318 73scamp318 is offline
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Ok from ryan "Any Siamese R3 with good caps on it can handle more power than you can make. 1000 HP is childs play when talking about breaking one of those blocks. The only ones you see broken (I've seen 2) broke when the rotating assy broke, and took out the block, they were'nt block failures. "

And how do you know what i can build or can't? Do i know you? I didn't think so. So before you say something that you don't know, learn how to spell, because i know for a fact that you can't spell THINK.
And what parts aren't the best? The forged crank? the forged pistons? the r3 block? the stainless steel headers and turbo system? The back half kit with the chromoly rod ends? EFI? What isn't? And also when did you see my paychecks? do you know about my business that im part owner of? HMMM? Didn't think so.
If my father can build a 600hp na 340 i can get 900hp from a TURBO R3 forged internal small block.

Ill race your W5 engine, but ill drive mine to the track on pump gas, plus ill give you a second head start.

Steve
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  #29  
Old 10-05-2005, 12:00 AM
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I must agree seems far fetched, Im not sure how so called manufactors even really rate parts at a certain Hp or rpm level? Explain? Seems over all machine work, and quality would mean somthing, to buy a set of Cheap eagle rods, and run them expectring them to make 1000 horses, and turn 8000+ rpms is a joke. Not knocking the rods, they are ok rods for the money, but there no GRP/Oliver pieces. And you make building a 900 horse small block sound so easy, the talk of factory blocks and rods running 600 horses, well maybe for 5 minutes. Id suspect no engine builder in the country would stand behind a small block mopar making 900+ horses and 14 psi boost, using things like stock blocks (which you where considering in 1st question) stock rods. or eagles, and just plain old torque converters laying around the garage I think you should build this motor and run stock block stock rods, ported x heads, cast pistons, Id go with the ole 509 MP cam, or maybe just the old RV cam in this combo, give it a healty dose of boost and see if it will last one pass down the track. Ok, Ok just kiddin

If your serious about maknig good power, seems the duribality factor would mean somthing. And live a long life Most people cant afford to build engine like this every few races id give some pro a crack at it. Give these guys a call ask them to build you a engine, see what parts they would use. I bet it wont involve stock blocks, and Eagle rods.

http://www.bestmachineracing.com/
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  #30  
Old 10-05-2005, 12:21 AM
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Don't want to stir the pot here, but everyone needs to remember that turbo horsepower are MUCH easier on the engine than N/A horsepower. We ran our TT340 at 14 psi and 600 hp (6000 rpm max) engine for nearly 15 years and 40K miles. Stock block (4bolt conversion) stock rods with ARP bolts, stock crank. Teardown at 40K showed almost no wear, and it could have been put back together as is with no issues. Granted this is a street car not a race car, but it has been very durable. A 600hp N/A engine would not have been in anywhere near the condition after the same use.

IMHO if he uses parts that would survive 600hp N/A, he should be good to 900hp turbo and 14 psi without a lot of worry. BUT--everything has to be done right, no detonation, no bad clearances, no bad mixtures, no boost creep, etc. etc. One good batch of detonation at 7000rpm, 14 psi, and he will ventilate even the best of parts.
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