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View Poll Results: No Political Posts For Two Weeks
Yes, Suspend Political Posts 15 50.00%
No, Don't Suspend Political Posts 15 50.00%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 04-14-2009, 01:21 AM
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Stoga Stoga is offline
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Well, unlike Jordan or Saudi Arabia, this country has access to bunches of sites for political debate, any flavor, sect or leaning that you prefer.
These sites outnumber the Mopar themed sites by a vast number.
I originally came here to talk about Mopars and support my fellow Mopar fans in the enjoyment of their hobby and their vehicles.
Politics doesn't help with that.
I don't have to read a bunch of political signs tacked up along my property or along the highway, but it's still trash.
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  #32  
Old 04-14-2009, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kunkel View Post
As noted in my reply #18, you are the one who made the poll forum a sounding board for your political opinion (reply #14). You just can't seem to keep politics out of the most simple exchange.
NEWS FLASH: The poll is about political threads. That IS politics.
Quote:
It's ironic that you, the one who thinks political discussions are an asset to the board have, by your own admission, little use for fact, truth or balance.
Absolutely false statement, and another of your common lies. If you'll read back, you'll find that I said I have no use for YOUR fact, truth or balance. There is a major difference there, but as usual, you take what is stated and twist it into garbage, and blame me for it.



Quote:
Your posts are an insult which is replied to with insults.
That might very well be the biggest BS line you ever posted here. As usual, if you repeat it enough times, YOUR BS, becomes truth. Save it for someone who buys into your own twisted logic.



Quote:
"How about" isn't a demand, it's a request but you couldn't possibly back up your claim (as usual) so you go into the attack mode.
As has been proved time and time again, there are never "requests" when it comes to your comments. A request doesn't REQUIRE compliance. YOUR "requests" require an answer, that you will then, without fail, take exception too, or you will dish out the insults if your "request" is not complied with. Want proof? Just look at the history.
So your comment above is just another of your common lies.

Once again, the political threads are turned into petty pissy arguments by your inability to control your temper, and to get over the past. By your NEED to insult ridicule, and change the topic.

In the political threads, very few of the arguments are about politics. Has anyone ever noticed that? READ THEM. The arguments are started by JOHN, and are about his need to insult. His normal tactic is to change the subject of the thread from politics, to his hatred for me. Yet, John, and admin put the blame on the political content, and me.
WANT PROOF? It's in the archives.

I'll admit to responding to John's insults and arguments with insults and arguments, but the key word here is RESPONDING. Not starting. That said, even when I don't respond to his posts, he will continue to attack.
Once again, WANT PROOF? In in the archives.

As I've stated so many times. The problem is NOT the subject matter. I've been personally attacked for talking about cars, here! Even car magazines!!! Do we ban those discussions, too? The problem is a lack of self control by essentially one or two members who will, personally attack people because the disagree with their opinions, beliefs, thoughts, comments, etc.
Those individuals have been doing so long before the political threads existed. Again, the proof is in the archives.


There have been, and I have had, many political discussions with members here that have not ended in personal insults. Can anyone point to a single political discussion with Kunkel in which you disagreed, that did not turn into his making a degrading or insulting comment, and being the first to introduce those comment into the discussion? I truly doubt it.

I've made the challenge before, and the history proves what I claim. Here it is again:

Find a political thread in which I introduced the first insult to John.
Hint: It doesn't exist.
As a defensive measure for the fact that I have not started any of these "pissig matches", John now claims (see above) that the mere fact that I post political content is an insult to him. That's is pure BS.

You want facts? Here are the facts:
EVERY political thread that I've started was made because it interests me, PERIOD. John insults me for that, and says I'm lying about it. No proof, no inside knowledge. Just insults for the sake of insult.

Every Political thread I've started ends up in argument, not over the political content of the thread, but because ANOTHER individual responded with off topic and personal insults.

John has been personally insulting people for a number of years, and no one seems to have a problem with it. Not the mods, not the super mods, and not Admin. Yet, for some reason, the subject of politics, a subject that affects each and every one of us in our daily lives is now being considered to be taboo, and largely because one or two people can't discuss politics with out attacking the opposition personally. But, it's OK, because those who make the personal attacks are "...contributors to the tech forums". For some reason their contributions to other threads buys them favor to ride roughshod in Off Topic, and freely personally attack other members.

I say again, the problem isn't topic, the problem is the personal attacks that pull the thread off it's subject. As John has posted many times, HE will decide what the topic of my threads will be. He will decide where the thread will go. Well, HE HAS DECIDED. The thread WILL GO TO PERSONAL INSULTS, and they have, each and every time John posts in one of my political thread, and HE was the person to introduce the off subject, personal insults, personal attacks, name calling, and personal hatred to each of those threads.

So here we are. John Kunkel, has decided that his personal mission here is to personally attack me for posting political threads, and has decided that no one should be able to discuss politics, and has decided that he will control even posts directed to another individual, in response to their direct questions. He has decided that any political post I make, is a personal insult to him, he has decided that he will make the decision to control the direction of any thread he see fit to control, and because his of decisions to disrupt conversations, personally attack anyone who has a political opinion that differs with his, personally attack anyone who has a religious opinion differing from his, or posts anything he doesn't deem fit to the board, we are actually having a poll to decide whether we should be able to discuss politics!

Considering all of this, (his need to control the direction of the thread, his need to control what subjects can be discussed, his need to belittle others for their political and religious beliefs, and the fact that he now claims that political posts are direct insults to him, etc.) the most ludicrous claim (and personal insult) John has made yet, is his claim that I'm the one suffering from narcissism!!!!!!!!!!

And, I'll bet someone here, is buying that, too.
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  #33  
Old 04-14-2009, 08:00 AM
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Default I have an idea

Why not create a Frank and John forum exclusive for their use where they can post and reply to each other to their hearts content. That way there won't be a need for political censorship of the forums.
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  #34  
Old 04-14-2009, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LD View Post
Why not create a Frank and John forum exclusive for their use where they can post and reply to each other to their hearts content. That way there won't be a need for political censorship of the forums.
I think you might have missed my point. My OP's are not to, or for, John. But a similar idea I posted earlier might work.

A password secured political forum. The forum would appear in the menu, but only the forum name, and nothing else. To enter, even to just read the political content, you'd have to apply for a password. That way, the political content doesn't affect the rest of the board, and no one who doesn't purposely enter the political forum can read any of it, not even the subjects, or titles of the most recent posts.

That would satisfy both sides of the coin.
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  #35  
Old 04-14-2009, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
I think you might have missed my point. My OP's are not to, or for, John. But a similar idea I posted earlier might work.

A password secured political forum. The forum would appear in the menu, but only the forum name, and nothing else. To enter, even to just read the political content, you'd have to apply for a password. That way, the political content doesn't affect the rest of the board, and no one who doesn't purposely enter the political forum can read any of it, not even the subjects, or titles of the most recent posts.

That would satisfy both sides of the coin.
No, that would give you and John your own little private sandbox to play in and that is like opening Pandora's Box.

As much as you claim that your posts are merely subjects that interest you, I still believe that you select the ones that will get a rise out of your participating audience, as limited as that may be.
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  #36  
Old 04-14-2009, 11:47 AM
72Challenger 72Challenger is offline
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Here's a thought, and it echoes JK's voting mantra (what if they held an election and nobody came): what if Frank posted, and John didn't reply? I'd be very curious as to how many replies such a thread would have. You have enough self-control to perform this little experiment, John?
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  #37  
Old 04-14-2009, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72Challenger View Post
Here's a thought, and it echoes JK's voting mantra (what if they held an election and nobody came): what if Frank posted, and John didn't reply? I'd be very curious as to how many replies such a thread would have. You have enough self-control to perform this little experiment, John?

That would be like having a big ripe zit right on the end your nose. How could you not pop it?
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  #38  
Old 04-14-2009, 05:18 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1973Swinger View Post
Honestly John, how is it an insult when someone posts a link or pastes an article (unchanged) from another source (news site, etc.)?
And what if that link or article makes the snopes list which means it's usually a total fabrication? And the OP clearly states that he's not responsible for truth or fact? The insult comes from trying to pass that type of post as legitimate or posting so-called "satire" that some readers take as fact which the OP claims isn't his intent but it clearly is.

I'm not claiming to be personally injured by the insult, I am merely replying to the whine that I insult the OP when he is the insulter.
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  #39  
Old 04-14-2009, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kunkel View Post
And what if that link or article makes the snopes list which means it's usually a total fabrication?
...and what if it doesn't?



Quote:
I'm not claiming to be personally injured by the insult, I am merely replying to the whine that I insult the OP when he is the insulter.
That's pure BS. Your purpose in responding to my post is insult, PERIOD. When that fails you resort to name calling.
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  #40  
Old 04-14-2009, 06:19 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
NEWS FLASH: The poll is about political threads. That IS politics.
Frank's rule #69. A poll about banning politics isn't politics but you (as usual) use it as a sounding board for your drivel. If the poll concerned banning warm water dildos you'd find a way to interject your political views.

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Absolutely false statement, and another of your common lies. If you'll read back, you'll find that I said I have no use for YOUR fact, truth or balance. There is a major difference there, but as usual, you take what is stated and twist it into garbage, and blame me for it.
Oh? And what about the numerous times your posts have been proven bogus by Snopes, et al? Or by individuals on this forum? On each occasion you have gone into your typical Limbaughesq "I'm not responsible for truth, fact".


Quote:
That might very well be the biggest BS line you ever posted here. As usual, if you repeat it enough times, YOUR BS, becomes truth. Save it for someone who buys into your own twisted logic.
Actually, the biggest BS line is your trying to pass off stylized posts as anything but what they are, an insult to one's intelligence.


Quote:
As has been proved time and time again, there are never "requests" when it comes to your comments. A request doesn't REQUIRE compliance. YOUR "requests" require an answer, that you will then, without fail, take exception too, or you will dish out the insults if your "request" is not complied with. Want proof? Just look at the history.
So your comment above is just another of your common lies.
How do you possibly interpret "How about" as anything but a request? Pointing out your failure to reply to that request is a separate issue which in no way amounts to anything but a request.

Quote:
Once again, the political threads are turned into petty pissy arguments by your inability to control your temper, and to get over the past. By your NEED to insult ridicule, and change the topic.
Control my temper? Who most recently ended his diatribes with the ORDER to "shove it"? That's an example of the temper tantrum that so typifies you and you'll never hear from me.

Quote:
In the political threads, very few of the arguments are about politics. Has anyone ever noticed that? READ THEM.
And, once again, the arguments are about your political views and that makes it about you.


Quote:
I'll admit to responding to John's insults and arguments with insults and arguments, but the key word here is RESPONDING.
Because you fail to recognize the insult in most of the posts you iniate.

Quote:
There have been, and I have had, many political discussions with members here that have not ended in personal insults. Can anyone point to a single political discussion with Kunkel in which you disagreed, that did not turn into his making a degrading or insulting comment, and being the first to introduce those comment into the discussion? I truly doubt it.
Once again disagreement, by itself, is viewed as an insult but you fail to address the insult in your trying to pass off the stylized subject matter you post as an insult.

Quote:
Find a political thread in which I introduced the first insult to John.
Hint: It doesn't exist.
Sure does, the post itself is the insult.


Quote:
As a defensive measure for the fact that I have not started any of these "pissig matches", John now claims (see above) that the mere fact that I post political content is an insult to him. That's is pure BS.
Deny it all you want, the vast majority of the political posts you initiate are so biased and distorted as to constitute an insult.

Quote:
You want facts? Here are the facts:
EVERY political thread that I've started was made because it interests me, PERIOD.
Never even remotely suggested that I believe otherwise, what is in question is your motive....something that you have danced around explaining since the subject first arose.

Quote:
Every Political thread I've started ends up in argument, not over the political content of the thread, but because ANOTHER individual responded with off topic and personal insults.
Typical papanoid exaggeration, go down the pages and find how many of your political posts get no responses and of the ones that do get a response note my absence.

Quote:
John has been personally insulting people for a number of years, and no one seems to have a problem with it. Not the mods, not the super mods, and not Admin.
Maybe they recognize the difference between disagreement and insult.


Quote:
Yet, for some reason, the subject of politics, a subject that affects each and every one of us in our daily lives is now being considered to be taboo,
Sex is a part of the daily lives of most of us, wanna compare styles?

Quote:
and largely because one or two people can't discuss politics with out attacking the opposition personally.
Perhaps it's because of the misinformation and distortions contained in the content, try posting balanced opinions and watch your "insult" quotient drop off.


Quote:
So here we are. John Kunkel, has decided that his personal mission here is to personally attack me for posting political threads
Not just political threads, your type of political threads.


Quote:
and has decided that no one should be able to discuss politics, and has decided that he will control even posts directed to another individual, in response to their direct questions.
Only your paranoia makes you think I have "decided to control" anything, you are the one attempting to exert control by saying I can't respond to comments made to another individual...it's an open forum which you attempt to control.


Quote:
Considering all of this, (his need to control the direction of the thread, his need to control what subjects can be


Not so, you're the one who is always trying to control the direction of the thread with your incessant "get back on topic" or "I wasn't talking to you", you picture yourself as some sort of referee on a forum that you see as your sole domain.


Quote:
his need to belittle others for their political and religious beliefs, and the fact that he now claims that political posts are direct insults to him, etc.)
Quote:
the most ludicrous claim (and personal insult) John has made yet, is his claim that I'm the one suffering from narcissism!!!!!!!!!!
You seem to have a problem with simple dictionary definitions, from your misuse of the word "tantrum" to your failure to recognize the narcissism in your endless stream of "look at me" posts. It's all about you and you seeing your signature line on as many posts as you can find to copy-and-paste or link to.

Quote:
And, I'll bet someone here, is buying that, too.
You're so fond of using the phrase "we both know", well we both know that the sole reason for starting those political threads is an attempt to foment agreement with your views, your ideal scenario is for everybody to read the posts and reply with a deluge of "right on Frankie"..."you're the man, Frank, gotjashit togther", ad nauseum. (AKA narcissism)

I think your only fear of banning political/religious threads here is not the professed lack of continuity but the fact that you'd be an orphan. Since you claim to avoid the tech forums because there's already enough misinformation there you'd lose the only place that allows you to pass on misinformation.
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  #41  
Old 04-14-2009, 06:26 PM
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I am dizzy now........

That was one long posts that said nothing.
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  #42  
Old 04-14-2009, 06:27 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
...and what if it doesn't?
And what if it does, and what if individuals here offer proof that the post is pure BS? Then you go into the standard "I'm not responsible......." mode. The fact is that you try to sneak questionable material disguised as fact in order to further your goal of flaunting your distorted beliefs. The recent rash of Scott Ott offerings proves that. And, please, don't go into the same old "it's only satire" BS...to coin your favorite phrase, we both no better.


Quote:
That's pure BS. Your purpose in responding to my post is insult, PERIOD. When that fails you resort to name calling.
Poor, poor baby. A born victim with a hair shirt for Sundays.
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  #43  
Old 04-14-2009, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by John Kunkel View Post
And what if it does, and what if individuals here offer proof that the post is pure BS? Then you go into the standard "I'm not responsible......." mode. The fact is that you try to sneak questionable material disguised as fact in order to further your goal of flaunting your distorted beliefs.
So which is it? Am I "flaunting your distorted beliefs"? or, saying "Look at me"?
or "Posting to insult you", or what?

The fact is it's none of those, but you need to believe it's one or all of those to justify your continued use of personal insults. Again, it's what you do.
Quote:
The recent rash of Scott Ott offerings proves that. And, please, don't go into the same old "it's only satire" BS...to coin your favorite phrase, we both no better.
It IS only satire! But, I have to admit, that the fact that you get pissed about it, and even mistook the "Socialized Groceries" as a serious post, was delightful.

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Poor, poor baby. A born victim with a hair shirt for Sundays.
Well, at least you didn't try to lie your way out of the fact that you only post to insult.
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  #44  
Old 04-15-2009, 05:24 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
So which is it? Am I "flaunting your distorted beliefs"? or, saying "Look at me"?
Both.

Quote:
or "Posting to insult you", or what
Never said you were posting with the intent of insulting me, merely pointing out that many of your posts are in insult, that's just your style.

Quote:
The fact is it's none of those, but you need to believe it's one or all of those to justify your continued use of personal insults. Again, it's what you do.
Since you refuse to state the "motive" of your stylized posts one can only go by the evidence at hand.

Quote:
It IS only satire!
Sure, and there were WMD's in Iraq and Anna Nicole married for love.

(apologies to Levon Helm)

Quote:
Well, at least you didn't try to lie your way out of the fact that you only post to insult.
Lying is your bailwick, it's easy to tell when you get caught in a lie because when you're challenged for proof you automatically go into your "I don't havta" mode.
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  #45  
Old 04-16-2009, 11:53 AM
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So tell me, do you always view things that you don't agree with or obviously don't understand in a negative light, or do you make an exception for me?
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  #46  
Old 04-16-2009, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dick View Post
No, that would give you and John your own little private sandbox to play in and that is like opening Pandora's Box.
Actually, it would be a place that a small group would go to. I would imagine that besides, John and myself, others, like Dodger1, Bobr, Swinger, Challenger, Quietdad, Walker, and a number of others would "join" a secured section of the board to discuss things political.
The rest who are not interested in the political stuff, wouldn't even be able to lurk there without purposely signing in to the forum. Something like that becomes a win-win situation.

Quote:
As much as you claim that your posts are merely subjects that interest you, I still believe that you select the ones that will get a rise out of your participating audience, as limited as that may be.
As I've stated so many times. It isn't necessary for me to "select" anything. It's not what I post, it's THAT I post, that is the issue for the "Limited audience".
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  #47  
Old 04-16-2009, 01:15 PM
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The question is, even if we wanted a political forum, which I do, is there any possibility that we would get it?
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  #48  
Old 04-16-2009, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rpr View Post
The question is, even if we wanted a political forum, which I do, is there any possibility that we would get it?
I would seriously doubt it. Look at the number of voters so far. Far from overwhelming on either side. I don't think ADMIN would be swayed by this poll.

Besides, the question isn't if there should be a political forum, but should politics just be banned entirely.

If you think it is nasty in Off Topic now, just what do you think would happen if the political playmates had their own little corner to privately fight in?
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  #49  
Old 04-16-2009, 02:14 PM
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You have a PM.

Check it out.

I don't think it would be as bad as you think.
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  #50  
Old 04-16-2009, 05:29 PM
John Kunkel John Kunkel is offline
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
So tell me,
Is that an order? How come you can give 'em but I can't?


Quote:
do you always view things that you don't agree with or obviously don't understand in a negative light, or do you make an exception for me?
In your typical jumbled way of thinking you have lumped "don't agree with" and "obviously don't understand" together as though they're the same thing.

A narcissist like yourself would no doubt view disagreement as a "lack of understanding"; after all how could anybody possibly disagree with your exalted opinion, they must not understand.

Well, such is not the case, my disagreement with your writings is just that....disagreement.

Quote:
It's not what I post, it's THAT I post, that is the issue for the "Limited audience".
Your paranoia showing again, IT IS about what you post and always has been.
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  #51  
Old 04-16-2009, 08:13 PM
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The only negative that stems from the political forum are people in dispute that then take that dispute to the rest of the sites forums.
We've all witnessed this, right?

What I would love to see are those who mostly post in the political forum to start participating in the rest of the site forums like performance or vintage ect....

Regardless, everyone should have a voice and speak their mind, at least once that is....cause lord knows we don't wanna hear the same whining all the time.
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  #52  
Old 04-16-2009, 08:16 PM
passing you passing you is offline
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And yes we all like to watch, once in a while that is, the friendly debate between kunkle and frankie.

Those 2 kind of get a free pass for they don't drag it all over this site like others have in the past.
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  #53  
Old 04-16-2009, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by passing you View Post
And yes we all like to watch, once in a while that is, the friendly debate between kunkle and frankie.

Those 2 kind of get a free pass for they don't drag it all over this site like others have in the past.
No, there are no free passes and they may not drag it around but everyone who has spent time on this board knows what is going on.

Anytime you log in and select New Posts and a half dozen Off-Topic threads greet you with political titles, posted by or replied to by the same members time and time again...you know it is ongoing and casts the same characters.

Hints don't help, polls don't help, PM's to members asking for a breather don't help. The only alternative is thread locks or post editing and deletion. That shouldn't have to be done.
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  #54  
Old 04-16-2009, 11:31 PM
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You know, I have never used the new threads feature....... I guess it wold be annoying........... Huh?
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  #55  
Old 04-16-2009, 11:40 PM
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New Posts is a great feature because it shows which threads have new posts since your last visit.
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  #56  
Old 04-17-2009, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dick View Post
No, there are no free passes and they may not drag it around but everyone who has spent time on this board knows what is going on.

Anytime you log in and select New Posts and a half dozen Off-Topic threads greet you with political titles, posted by or replied to by the same members time and time again...you know it is ongoing and casts the same characters.

Hints don't help, polls don't help, PM's to members asking for a breather don't help. The only alternative is thread locks or post editing and deletion. That shouldn't have to be done.


just my opinion, I don't make the rules here.
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