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-   -   318/360 Heads (http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87737)

fastmopar 12-30-2004 02:09 PM

318/360 Heads
 
I am getting back into Mopar V8's so I'm a little rusty. I was asking about 360 heads being a bolt on HP gain on a 318 block. The issue of piston interferance came up. I have the bump stick from the 318 (has a white stripe on it), or the one from the 360 (orange stripe). Is there a pushrod length I need to have or a lifter length?
I undertsand the clay in the cylinder test. But if there's anything I can do by installing the correct parts first, then testing it would save time.

Thanks.

DartGT66 12-31-2004 04:01 AM

I think you will not have an interference problem. The lifters, pushrods etc. should be the same. 360 cam is "bigger" than a 318 cam, but you should do the measuring with the cam you intend to use degreed in correctly. If performance is your goal, forget teh stock cams & lifters.

rumblefish360 12-31-2004 10:43 AM

360 head on a 318 are not a problem in anyway shape or form. The head can even have 2.02 valves installed and use a .484 lift cam. I know, i did this myself. If you do a cam swap of any kind, use the clay to KNOW exactly where you stand. It can only help.
The draw back of 360 heads on a 318 are;
1 larger combustion chamber. This lowers the allready low comp. ratio into the basement.
2 the size of the ports in the head slow down the air and fuel mix. This causes poorer drivabilty problems at low RPM's.
3* Use of a performaer intake will cause a port miss match. And a bad one at that. Inatke port window is to small against the head. This will cause air and fuel to crash into the head. More of the wrong turbulance in the wrong spot.

Is it bad to install these heads after what you read.
NO, just use them in a higher performance area than just upgrade or mild street and use with another intake besides the performers small port window. Gear higher to off set the weak lower end.
Works like a charm.

dwc43 12-31-2004 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastmopar
I am getting back into Mopar V8's so I'm a little rusty. I was asking about 360 heads being a bolt on HP gain on a 318 block. The issue of piston interferance came up. I have the bump stick from the 318 (has a white stripe on it), or the one from the 360 (orange stripe). Is there a pushrod length I need to have or a lifter length?
I undertsand the clay in the cylinder test. But if there's anything I can do by installing the correct parts first, then testing it would save time.

Thanks.

360 heads is a great bolt on swap for an hp gain. If they have 2.02 valves it would be even better. Take about .035 off the heads before install. For more gains port the exhaust side only. With stock flat tops you can run a cam as big as the mopar 292 .508 but I would not use that in a 318. It needs lots of compression and has no bottom end to speak of. Best to use a dual pattern cam with more exhaust and/or lift for better flow out of the head. A good intake carb combo for that engine is a Weaind Action Plus and a stock 800 cfm Thermoquad carb. Don't forget the 1 5/8 headers with 2 1/4 pipes and an X pipe. :toast: :toast:

perfmachst 12-31-2004 02:46 PM

hello, use the 587 ,360 head with the 1.88 valves. change to the mopar sst intakes. they outflow the tulip valves. the 1.88 heads were designed for a 1.88 valve size. unless you open up the ports and do lots of grinding, the2.02 valve does not flow any better than the 1.88. the 1.88 will have a higher port velocity over the 2.02 in the same head. higher port speed will fill the cylinders faster and more air. this is from super flow!! port velocity and shape are the most critical. big valves and slower velocity are not it. just food for thought.

fastmopar 01-04-2005 11:01 PM

Ok. You've given me some interesting opinions. So here's what I'm thinking.
318 short block bored .030 over, with new bearings and crank machining. New cam in the block (assume stock). Stock Hydraulic lifters, push rods, and rockers. 360 heads, 360 4 barrel intake, Edelbrock 750 performer carb.

Workable?

Thanks.

dwc43 01-04-2005 11:08 PM

sounded great right up til you mentioned that edle carb. Piece of junk that they have had problems with for some time. YOu would be much better off with teh stock 800 cfm Thermoquad. Much more throttle responsive than the edel or holleys. A good aluminum intake for your combo would be the Weaind action plus. :)

turbododge 01-04-2005 11:10 PM

Just my opinion, but for a stock cam 318 you will have too much port and intake runner volume and too much carb. To get any benefit out of the bigger heads you need to kick the output of the engine up a bunch, or all you will do is kill the bottom.

racintracy 01-05-2005 01:02 AM

This is basically the same combo me and a friend used on his 78 Dodge pickup and it ran suprisingly good for a 318 but his did have 3:55 gears which I'm sure helped alot. The carb was a thermoquad and I'm with DWC on the Edel being junk in comparison to the thermoquad. I've tested several different carbs. in the past and the definitive winner has always been a properly tuned thermquad.

BTW make sure and use the 1.88 valve heads for that small cam. You'd have to go pretty radical to make use of 2:02 valves.

And another thing is if your gonna replace the cam with new why not step it up a notch. The price would be nearly the same and you can get some great mild performance cams that idle great and get better fuel mileage and have more power.

rumblefish360 01-05-2005 01:15 PM

The carb is large, 600 will do or a small TQ. Use the 1.88 valves. A bigger cam, will do well, even a stock 360 cam or slightly larger.

TK 01-16-2005 04:12 AM

whats wrong with the 318 heads? Unless you want some seriose power, there is no need, the 318 is an amazing engine, that makes more torque than two 302's or 305's. It makes this torque thanks to the itty bitty intake ports everyone has such a problem with, velocity! Use the torque, its not worth the loss of compression. Or, find some newer 4BBL heads.
hows this, 2BBL heads, comp 260, weiand dual plane(even though the ports are too big, throw it on!) and some 360 exaust manifolds. Bye Bye chev boys. OK, time for the BS, my 69 D200 would out pull my dads 350 ooh ahh chev (ran really good, on flat ground) with, oh yeah, a 340 repro cam, and one of those really cute single plane 2BBLS that dodge blessed us 273/318 nuts with, he had 4/10's, I had 3/55's

rumblefish360 01-16-2005 07:30 AM

dodgetkboy78; I agree that the 318 heads will do well, up to a point. They can be restictive in a higher HP level search. However, they can outperform the 340/360 head in the right combo. All relitivly (sp) mello ones.
The 318 head has an advantage in the velocity section as you and others mentioned, but also, being smaller in the chamber can help as well. Less head milling equals better head integrety. (sp) Better sealing through a thicker deck.
I almost allways sugest instalation of 360 valves. A bowl porting works really nice with these valves. While the head is at the shop getting this work done, a port matching or gasket match on both sides seals the deal on an excellent upgrade.

Theres isn't a 4bbl. or 2bbl. head in MoPars, just 273,318 heads and 340,360 heads.

TK 01-16-2005 04:09 PM

YOU are right, there is no 4bbl head, but, for some reason the intake ports are bigger in newer 318's that came with 4bbl's, and roller engines. Will go out to junk pile this afternoon and get casting numbers

rumblefish360 01-16-2005 05:20 PM

Yes, you are correct. Now for what you missed, there 318's equiped with 360 heads from the factory.

mojojojo426 02-14-2005 08:49 PM

New head bolts or not?
 
First timer so be kind! I have the heads off my 70 Swinger 318. Just got the car, great deal too. Snapped off a stud trying to replace an exaust gasket :( anyway it's got 93k so I figuard redo the head's while there off. So can I reuse the head blots or not? Also got an Ebel. Torquer, a 650 and some headers. 318 1 bbl didn't quite cut it.

Billydelrio 02-14-2005 09:24 PM

Reuse head bolts
 
Mojojojo426, The 318 factory head bolts can and most often are reused during a general rebuild. The stock 318 will like the 4bbl and headers.
Bill

Breech 02-14-2005 09:35 PM

Fastmopar, I have a 318 with 360 heads in my duster. It ran pretty well although there was definitly a loss in the bottom end. As Rumblefish stated previously, if the engine was not factory equiped with 360 heads then a big obstacle to overcome is the compression loss due to the larger chamber of the 360 head. This means milling the head and using thinner gaskets or getting a set of higher compression pistons has to be done. I would use a nice mild performance cam that doesn't sacrifice too much bottom end, maybe comp cams extreme energy 256H, and a good intake that produces power from off idle to between 5-6k. I use a 600cfm eddy carb and it runs well. Headers will be a nice addition as well. Hedman makes a decent low price full length as does hooker. You could also look into a set of the swirl port 318 heads although they would need some massaging to make good power too. Good luck either way you go, you should be happy with the results. Just be sure that everything is done right the first time around, I'm learning the hard way ;)

mojojojo426 02-14-2005 10:45 PM

econo headers
 
Summit has a set of coated headers for $230, best price I found around.

rumblefish360 02-15-2005 12:06 PM

Mojo, LOL, no problem there bud. Don't mean to sound mean. All is cool. You have come to a good place to learn. We were all rookies once, and will be again and again and again.
What headers from summit? The price looks right, but sometimes to good to be true means to good to be true. Just wondering.

TK 02-15-2005 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumblefish360
Yes, you are correct. Now for what you missed, there 318's equiped with 360 heads from the factory.


hey, rumble, ya know your right! these 318 4bbl heads are the same casting number as the 360's! so, what did they do bout the compression???

rumblefish360 02-15-2005 06:43 PM

Hummm, I don't know, I think I had my pants down in the toilet at the time. :flush:
Someone else is gonna have to get that one. :chicken:
Whats the advertised ratio vs actual ratio if you know?
Also, if anybody knows, how far down the hole the piston sits along with head chamber cc?

Crank 02-16-2005 12:17 AM

lets see Magnum heads, crosswind duelplane ,Headmans headers,340 cam,600 holey, all new all cheep lifes good.

TK 02-16-2005 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojojojo426
Summit has a set of coated headers for $230, best price I found around.



mojojojojojojojojo426, hey, for what its worth, save and get hooker supercomps, use your manifolds till you can afford em. coming from a header hater, supercomps have always treated me good! the cheaper ones seem to leak after a long run :crying: i just got my supercomps for my duster (ceramic) today, they are sooooweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

Breech 02-16-2005 02:00 AM

That's a good ? Rumblefish. I know that the cr of the 318 with factory 360 heads is supposed to be 8.4 to 1. I recall reading somewhere how they did it but I just can't remember where. The pistons are flat tops with no valve reliefs but I'm not sure how far down in the hole they are and I'm not sure of the cc of the chamber either. If anyone knows I'm curious too.

TK 02-16-2005 02:04 AM

me too! im thinkin 318/360 heads on a 360 may bump the compression, if they changed the cc, that is.

Stoga 02-16-2005 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgetkboy78
me too! im thinkin 318/360 heads on a 360 may bump the compression, if they changed the cc, that is.

It's a good idea in theory, but the times I've seen it tried, the lack of breathing choked off the 360. Maybe with a ton of porting work, perhaps.
Those old 318 heads have quite a bit of material in them, also was going to try this on with a set of early 273 heads with the heartshaped combustion chamber, but never did get to complete that project.
With 1.88 intakes, I got the old 273 heads to breath better than a stock 360 head, though nothing near what a ported 360 head could do.
If you had the spare parts, it may be something to build just for grins....

TK 02-16-2005 02:58 AM

i was talkin the 360 heads they put on a 318, sorry

oh, ive put 318 heads on a 360, along with a small port 4bbl, it ran like a cornbinder, AWSOME till bout 4000, then it peterd out (its still in the towtruck, and the guy sais it pulls like a big block)
please dont pick on me for mentioning international, they are mopar kin, and I love em too.

mojojojo426 03-26-2005 10:05 AM

1 bbl to 4 bbl conv. 70/318
 
I,m converting from stock to a Edel.Torker with a 600 cfm on top. Of course the trottle linkage is completly out of line know, are my only ops. to rig this to get it to line up?
I want to install elec. egnition, anyone tell me the do's and dont's of this?

Breech 03-26-2005 10:39 AM

Mojo,
If you're talkin about an edelbrock carb up top then you can buy their chrysler throttle linkage adapter part #1481. Whether the torker manifold itself will throw off the linkage geometry I'm not sure. You can play with it a bit if you have to, might have to get a little creative or maybe not.

hellhound 03-26-2005 11:08 AM

So uh...whats the odds of finding one of the 318 with the 360 heads straight from the factory....I heard a guy mention them at the boneyard about six months ago and I thought he might be F. O. S. What kinda vehicle would they put something like that in? Man I feel dorky :smoking:


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