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-   -   #302 Heads -on ‘86 318 (truck)..? (http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115472)

Polara_68 04-22-2009 09:27 PM

#302 Heads -on ‘86 318 (truck)..
 
I can get the heads and/or the entire 318 2-bbl engine from an ‘86 Dodge D-150 Pickup.

What is the likelihood of this engine having the desirable #302 heads..?

I know that IÂ’d have to check the casting number to be sure
(found under the rockers, isnÂ’t it..?)

I did a web search and I keep seeing varying years and applications listed for #302 head production,
and I donÂ’t want to tear into the heads on this salvage yard engine
if thereÂ’s no chance at all of them being #302 heads..

Also, even if they are not #302 heads, would these heads be of any advantage
over the heads on my 1968 318..?

Th

passing you 04-22-2009 10:44 PM

good chance, real good....

TK 04-23-2009 02:03 AM

Five bolts to pull the vale cover!

Oh, and better? yes and no, if not 302 heads, they wont flow as good, but have hardedned seats.


Give and take.

Polara_68 04-29-2009 09:56 PM

The plot thickens -
since posing this question, I have since heard (from reliable sources)
about what are known as "HD Heads",
which were installed on 318 4 bbl engines in police cars from '83 thru '89.
Are these "HD Heads" the same thing as the #302 heads,
or are they an entirely different animal..?
:confused:
I'm beginning to think the hell with all this lol
The car has good compression and runs like hell w/ the original '68 heads,
so they can stay on it, but I am still curious in learning about
these various "HD" and #302 heads
and what vehicles (and what years) on which they were installed..

TK 04-30-2009 02:40 AM

tHEY ARE big chamber 360 heads.......

Big ol Boggers.

passing you 04-30-2009 10:49 AM

gees..... there not what ever TK said 'bigolbogers'

He does have the 360 head part right, however they would not be well matched to your combo since they have larger runners and larger valves to go with. valves not being the real issue.

Unless you were to build the motor around those heads they would not make a snappy motor out of a stock 318 bottom end.

Instead you would have the 302boss 4v head syndrome where it makes good power but only after 3500-4000rpm lol

Big ports on small bores need rpm to assist the lack of air speed, thing is when an engine revs it gets less air then you see in a cranking compression test, like say 150psi cranking and 50-75psi running @ 4000+rpm, so now you would be making even less cylinder pressure then you would assume you'd already made by running those big chambered/port 360 heads.

Now if you bump the compression to say 10.5-11.5 with a dual plane 'for the street' you'd be in business, though you would need to pick camshaft wisely in order to bleed just the right amount of pressure off and then set the advance curve to suit to run pump gas.

The closer the piston to the valve, the sooner the flow is initiated.....

waynebo 04-30-2009 02:38 PM

my 85 ramcharger and w150 both had 302's,both 85;s so yes it will have 302's,,a very good head,get the whole engine as it will be a roller block..

chrysler300le 04-30-2009 03:19 PM

302 heads came out in 85 on all 2 bbl 318's. 4bbl 318's during the 80's had 360 heads and the later ones were about 75 cc. They had huge combustion chambers. The cop car engine only had about 7.5:1 compression ratio but they ran decent. Its BS that 360 heads make 318's have a soft bottom end. They run about the same down low with 360 heads but above 3000 they really wake up.

DonCarr 04-30-2009 06:26 PM

-Here are some basic 318 articles.
-The first one is basic bolt-ons with unported 318 open chamber heads. (max 270HP) http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1968181674
-Next series of tests has pocket ported open chamber 318 heads with 9.8 compression. (max 345HP)http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1826270359 75HP gains over previous article with pocket porting, bigger cam and more compression.
-Here are heavily ported 302 castings making over 400HP and over 400TQ http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304...ild/index.html
-Heavily milled and mildly ported 360 heads on a 318, 400HP, 390TQ http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ine/index.html
---Summary - dyno tests usually start at 3000+rpm, so performance below 3000 is unknown. 318 heads may develop more power here.
-Closed chamber 302 castings need zero deck pistons for greatest quench improvement and heavy shrouding around valve increases swirl but hurts flow.
-EQ magnum heads (cheapest off ebay?) easily break 400HP unported, 445+HP ported on 318's.
-Stock magnum heads can break 400HP unported but may not be the best casting to invest machine shop money in due to cracks. Better to start with EQ magnum or RHS Indy 360X.
-(mildly planed 318 heads with home pocket porting show great bang for the buck)

Polara_68 04-30-2009 09:04 PM

I appreciate the info and food for thought in all these replies..
thank you gentlemen
:thumbsup:

About the roller block -
Is there a stamping or casting code somewhere I should check to fully verify
that it's a roller block in this 318 2 bbl '86 D150 pickup..?
Or were all 318's of this year roller blocks..?

Thanks!

TK 04-30-2009 10:08 PM

86 should be a roller block, but like I said, pulling the pass valve cover is easy. It is old enough to maybe have had a rebuilt. Thats why you should check.
I am not sure about the block casting numbers, I am like 3000 miles away from my book.

And don't let anyone tell you it's BS that the 360 heads don't kill the 318 down low. There i a big difference. Been there, done that, and a 318, with 318 heads, and a 4bbl manifold, runs better than a 360 head 318 (Stock to stock). By far!

waynebo 04-30-2009 10:11 PM

86 will be a roller block.

TK 04-30-2009 10:14 PM

Just make sure you CHECK it.

I have seen 85 non roller blocks, and a 86 truck may have a 85 block, that could be non roller.

Not to mention I have seen flat tappet cams in roller blocks, pretty sure they had never been changed.

pcrmike 04-30-2009 10:17 PM

Ditto that TK. I too have seen the oddities. Real good chance at them being 302's though. :-)PCRMike

passing you 04-30-2009 10:47 PM

I have a dated 84' 318 block that had a flat tappet from the factory but has the requirement spider bosses factory drilled & tapped for roller lifter alignment/centering.

Tarrbabe 05-01-2009 12:57 AM

I need to chek my...................
 
318 to see what year engine it is. I have an 80 Step-Side that has a newer motor in it. It was an original /6 3 speed on the colume but was changed by an eairler owner. It has a 318/auto and when I changed the intake from a 2 bbl to the 68 340 intake with a 650 Eldebrock I noticed it had roller lifters. Where do I look to see what year the engine is? Also, I would like to know if the heads are 302's. Truck runs like a Banshee. I'm not sure of rear gears but it is lower than 3.55 as I can't get on the interstate. At 70 mph the motor is screaming.
It also has MSD and Headmans.
Where do I look to find my numbers? Thanks.

passing you 05-01-2009 01:23 AM

On the block below the head above motor ears & #2-4 cylinders pass side.

passing you 05-01-2009 01:25 AM

if you reach down with your hand you feel what the date is

waynebo 05-01-2009 08:33 PM

both my 85's had flat tappet cams but they are roller blocks,i bought complete roller tappets,spider and even the 2 small bolts off ebay for $45.00

chrysler300le 05-01-2009 08:56 PM

86 block is capable of roller cam but the trucks didn't get an actual roller cam till 88 fuel injection.

About the previous post that wants to dispute that its bs that 318's lose low end with 360 heads. All cop car engines came with 360 heads. There is some late 70's engines that were factory 4 bbl with 360 heads. They run pretty damn good. I've done it both ways with 318 heads and 4 bbl intake and 360 heads with factory 4bbl intake and the 360 heads on a 318 kick butt over the 318 heads.

TK 05-02-2009 12:52 PM

Nope, sorry, dyno tests, seat of the pants, and plain old common knowledge proves you wrong.

And the cop car 318 ran like a dog, every damn one of them. If you think they were, uhm, "Strong" then, well........... They ran as good as a 305, and a 302 from that era, if that is good, then....... (No comment)

Big ports, on a stock 318, makes a 318 run like a chevy engine. Bad MPG, weak, and a unlimited top end, if you can get it in a low enough gear to rev it that high. I have had three 4bbl 318's (E48) and was extremely un-impressed. A strong single plane 2bbl from the 60's-70's makes more power.

passing you 05-02-2009 02:02 PM

Remember joe public,
These are all opinions from people without dyno's or any reputation in the engine build world.

And some will keep on the same path they are comfortable with.

There are dyno tests done by other then the members here so far that hold more water then anonymous posters.

You just need to know what your doing with tuning/parts combos.

In the end, to each his own.......

passing you 05-02-2009 02:04 PM

I tell you this much..... if some can make something work that usually doesn't, I'd be trying to find out what they know that I may not.......

dodger1 05-02-2009 10:55 PM

The block should have the I.D. (stamping number) ##s stamped into the front driver's side just below the block deck, but you'd probably need to scrape off a bunch of dirt and mung to read it.. The casting number will be about 2 inches below the deck on the pass. side of the block, roughly below #2 and 4, as passingyou said. It helps to have both, to i.d.any machining differences on the same casting. The heads would have the casting ##'s under the rocker shaft.

Polara_68 05-04-2009 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by passing you (Post 774073)
if you reach down with your hand you feel what the date is

good tip!
and remember - if you reach down with your hand and feel your date,
and she smiles, then it means she's into you,
and if she slaps you, then it means she's not..

passing you 05-04-2009 11:42 PM

ha ha you never know....she could pull her out knee pads lol

Polara_68 05-05-2009 08:24 PM

knee pads..? is she a skater..?

in any case, sounds like the 318 in that truck is worth checkin out..

lot of good info in these posts, thanx!

mopar1nz 05-06-2009 07:21 PM

Hi Guys not trying to hijack your thread but we all seem to be talking the same things here. 318's and heads.
Mines a 318-390 running home ported 318heads.9.17 CP. I have some 360 j heads and want to know if I should chuck them on. 72cc so CP will drop to mid to low 8's.
Will there be any gains anywhere putting them on with a mild porting, or am I better off giving the 318 heads a shave.
Motor is a real stump puller at the moment. voodoo 60401cam. 1.6 roller rockers = 484/506 lift. Dyno 441ft lbs @ 2000rpm. with this cam it drops off under 4000rpm.

passing you 05-07-2009 02:11 AM

You'd pick up power with the larger port heads on your 390 but would be better to mill them to maintain the current comp ratio.

you need to cc them first and c where they are at.
I had 1 head @ 69cc with one in the middle @67cc and the other @ 66cc across.
I milled them down to 62cc across and relieved the small one to 62cc as well.

mopar1nz 05-07-2009 02:55 AM

OK thanks. had the cc wrong currently 65 for the 318 heads giving me 9.23CP
cc. on 360 heads is 72 would give me 8.67. how do you calculate the amount to be shaved and would I need new push rods or can the adjustment be made on the roller rockers?


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