Work Truck motor choices? (no big blocks)
 

I have a 1958 D-100 that I am restoring to "use" to carry a camper and pull a boat. I am on a budget (generous). I want to still have a heavy duty 4 speed but may go for one that has sinchros for second so the wife will drive it. The truck came from the factory with a flathead 6 in it and now has a 225 slant 6. I don't want to put a big block in it but want to have enough power to pull the mountains without too much of a drop in speed. Here are the choices I have been thinking of.

318 poly- I am thinking I will have quite a wad of cash into it to get the kind of performance I am looking for but like the idea of having a motor that the truck could have been bought with

340- I have always liked this engine and know it can perform.

360- This looks to be what I want as far as performance and has great aftermarket support.

I would like some recommendations as to what engine you would choose and reasons. once I decide what engine I will have in the truck I will be looking for how it should be built.

Thanks, Chris

Well, with those three engine choices, and this line here; I would 4 inch stroke the 360.
Why not the 340? Well, if you have the block allready, fine, otherwise, there to much money. The few extra cubes it gives isn't worth the expense/
The Poly engine can also use the stroker crank, but head flow suffers. MoPar Muscle did one that cranked out 400 + hp with ported heads. The "LA" head should be hands and feats over the poly head.
This is why I say stoke the 360.

However, if stroking is out, then just simply the 360. 3 angle valve job on well preped heads w/stoke valves will do fine for towing. Nothing really bigger than a repo-340 cam and she'll pull your boat around well.

Food for thought, if you have a 360 & a 340, swing in the 360 crank into the 340. Gring down the mains and heat treat it. At .030 on the 340 block with the 360 crank, you'll get a whoppin 372 cubes. 367 unbored.

My vote is for the 318-poly.............

Thanks rumblefish.


I really don't want to build a stroker but accept your reasons for the 360.

BillyBob. Why the 318. I stated why I like it but am curious to know your reasons.

Work Truck Engine
 

I think I'd want a Magnum version, either the 360 or the stroked version. You could run a carb with the Edelbrock RPM intake. I think the head flow and the double quench chambers of the Magnum would make for more power on unleaded fuel. A few issues will be engine balancing (different than the pre-Magnum 360s) and the engine mounting brackets. If I remember right, the 360/Magnum ones are wider than the 318 versions, you might need to make a spacer on one side of the block. For the torque converter balancing, you might be able to get the B&M flexplate and have the crank assembly balanced and they can add the right amount of weight to the flexplate. The Magnum also has decent exhaust manifolds if you don't want to use headers.

360, its the cheepest, and they build more torque than a 340, but why not a LA318?

360 with an edelbrock SP2P intake and a Carter 500 with an RV cam. You will not be able to stall it (course you will never get it over 4500 RPM either)

I don't know if there is any difference in price to build between the 318LA and the 360 but would any difference in price be worth the difference in displacement? Horsepower?

no, but a 318 will live longer, and make less heat, wich is important in your truck, and a good 318 will give a 360 a run for the money as far as torque goes untill about 4000, also, if you have low gears, the 318 will take abuse better. Your talkin to a 318 freak, oh and you can get a 318 with a steel crank too!

If your buildin a pulling motor, wich is mostly what ive done (ford, chev, dodge, jeep, international, oh yeah, the 345 in my dads 2 ton ripps shit), dont worry bout HP, torque is what pull's, also you need to know what gears you have to find the right cam. 252 comp is a good pulling cam, as the 260/270 wolverine.

I was going to suggest the LA 318 too, I was going to say why but looks like everyone before me pretty much has it covered!
I will point out one other thing, they are very cheap and very available!

And the best, all around, reliable, tuff, strong, powerfull, high revving, low torquing, chev eating little engine EVER built, hands down, bar none, no contest. :toast: could you imagine a 302 or a 305 in a 2 ton? gross!

I had chosen the 318-poly mostly due to it's near originality(I think they came out in 1959?) and a simple V8 with around 200hp that won't be as finicky as the more expensive 340 option. If your idea was more towards a high revving, hi performance unit then the 340/360 stroked unit would be more applicable. Making it fit should entail the least of the problems compared to some of the other options.
Just remember this is your truck and we can only give you our "opinions" and the final decision is of course yours.

As I said before I really don't want a stroker motor. Dependability and money are an issue as is having a capable machine. I am not asking anyone to make my decision for me just want to have enough info on pros and cons of each motor to make an educated decision for myself. The main reason I like the 318 is because the truck could have come with one from the factory.

I remember a truck my dad had when I was growing up and how underpowered it was for what he needed it to do. He would cuss that motor every time he had to climb Ashton Hill (Near Island Park in Idaho). He eventually built a motor to go in the small V8's place. I want to try and skip a step by starting with a V-8 that is big enough. If you think I can build a 318 Poly (one of my favorite motors) with enough grunt (Seemed to have plenty for a Huge '60 Dodge Phoenix but don't know about a loaded down truck) without breaking the bank, this is the route I would like to go.

I will have more info including the rear end ratio to post up later this weekend. I need to crawl under it and lube it up. :thumbsup:

If you can gear it like my '68 then you will not have any towing problems. I have a '68 D300 dually with a LA 318 210 hp with 4 spd. and 4.88 gears in a floated Dana 60 and all that is stock original with only 69,9XX miles on it. We use it to tow race cars with now and it more than does the job, but top end speed is limited some. I wished it had a little higher gear in it, but Im not going to mess with it since it's original. :cool:

your D300 has a dana 70 dwc, get it right :jackbox: :flip:

Maybe he swapped it out.:smoking:

Looks like a 60 to me, but I could be wrong. I need to do some more research on it though when I have the time. :toast:

the nest time you open the door, look at the id plate, itll say spicer 70, if you dont believe that, the number is on the top of the webbing next to the pumpkin cover ( ithink its on the right side), thatle tell ya. Im pretty sure the 60 and 70 use the same cover. :devil:

hey livelarge, if you run into any more info on the css, i would love it, I want one, bad, About a year ago, there was one on ebay for 600$ I tried buying it, but the guy decided to sell it to a friend :( it had a six originally, i have a 63 413 that would go nice in one, and 69 up front sway bars n such. its hard to find your dream truck, maybe, before they outlaw them, i can find one. Oh, my current project is a 69 D200 camper custom, its getting a 440 that tore my magnum apart, a 727, ceramic headers, ect. The truck was beutifull till someone smoked too much dope and head onned me. I put 135,000 miles on it in 5 years. it even ran a 15.7 1/4 with a 318! wasnt stock though :toast:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Theres no reason a 360 can't out live a 318. How you think it'll last long is beyond me, but OK, whatever. If an engine makes less heat than another, then either there a cooling problem or it simply makes less HP.
A good 318 will give a 360 a run for it's money. Lets compare this hopped up teen to the stock 360. Better yet, let me equip the 360 with equal parts to comploment it and we'll go do a dyno run and real world run. (You'll get a pasting.)
How can the 318 take abuse better? Because it has a fordged crank? The cast unit can take lots-o-torque as well. If it fails anytime soon, I'd look at the quality of re-build followed by oil pump failure followed by poor driving skills.
A steel crank is the only real advantage here. Everything else is moot. Theres not enuff to cry about in anyway shape or form.
For pulling, there nothing better than (ethier or in no particular order) a larger engine and a longer stroke for more torque.

This is why I said stroker to his statment of what I thought him saying of a large bank roll.

Pistons are the expensive part in strokers. Like I was saying earlier a 360 crank into a .030 over 340 block hands out 372 cubes of small block sized engine slamming out big block power.

well, just saw my head off and s--t down my throat. I thought he wanted a good motor with a reassonable amount of power. Did i say a 318 makes more power than a 360?nooooooooooooo I said it will give a 360 a run for its money. The 360 has hevier pistons, that means its harder on it to run at high rpm's. And, i think he's talking bout a truck engine, so big whoop on the 3500 and up power. dodge knew what they were doing when they desighned them both, and they both serve their purpose well, a 318 is way more efficient at low rpm because of its little intake ports that you seem to despise, I can argue on about why i like the 318 but thats not what he wants to hear. If you want to compare low end torque, ill bolt up a international 345 up to your 360 and spin it backwards all day long. Now, on the lighter side, we all have our oppinion's and favorites and we dont need to make each other out to be idiots. The 318 L'S I have driven are very impressive for low end grunt, they should pull just fine, afer all, it is a 1/2 ton. I agree on the originality too, it would look right. (the 318 came out in 59, 57 and 58, they had a 315, wich is virtually the same motor, it has a slightly smaller bore)

go with a 360! it has the most torque and cubes. :shrug: you could put magnum heads on it if you want but it is not nessisary. get something like a 215 dur cam and 9.5ish compression. you could haul all day long.

D-boy;

Rip your head of and Sh%& down your throat. Ha ha ha ha Not yet, but if ya want me to, OK,
(Talk about shooting fish in a bbl. ladies and gents, it's almost to easy, ha ha ha ha ha)
Look Knuckle drager, wake up and smell the coffee. OR go back to bed and dream up a better answer.
1st problem with your replies;

1;You think I'm messin with you. I'm not.
2; a 318 built stock or equally modded can not out do a 360, which he stated is a choice. Though, rather bad to assume, I'll do so that he has one. Reguardless if he has one or not.
3; Theres a problem. Go back to his post and re-read it. Then come back and reanswer his question. You made a mistake, thats OK.
4; He listed a few engines to choose from and wanted reasons why we would chose them. I elected to state a 360 if not a stroker. WHY? Do the math. 42 cubes. Need a better reason? Longer stroke. Which leads me to...
5; Who the hell is talking about HIGH RPM's? Seems your the only one talking about it. Everthing I listed below is a long stroke engine. The 372 stroker is still makeing use of the 360 crank. The bigger bore adds power at all RPM's. Not just the high RPM's. Reguardless, the weight amount is not enuff to be bothered thinking about when it comes to pulling and general useage. Heck, it's not even a thought when building a performance engine. Going racing or building a hot street ride, theres the diff and in only whats going in the engine of choice. Because thats the engine of choice.
6; No duh!
7; I agree, but even so, don't you think he could exceed that RPM level at some time?
8; At gas mileage or making power? Both may be true, but at a 42 cid disavantage. At the amount of cubes down, it'll be better on gas mileage. Even with W-2 heads it'll be better at the mileage it'll get.
9; Un true, I have many many posts saying to use 318 heads on a 318. Any question on this and you can go scrolling a few thousand pages on this. OR go look for DWC and ask him who argues with him the most on what head to use on a 318. AND what valve. Go on, give him a PM.
10; No no no, do so. This is what the forum is about. Not argue, but to constuctivly argue the points of why. (SH%*ing down your throat is your idea.)
11; Well that sounds great! You praise the 318 and then cry when I bring in cubes. So, since you start crying like a Chevy boy, I'll just get another engine a whoop ya ass. Come on now. Stop crying like a child. This is about what he listed, not what you can bring into the mix. I don't give a rats tail what the 345 inter. can do. It's not part of the OE question or choices. If it means so much to you, go join a international board. Where did this engine come from. Why didn't you just say you would get a Chevy 454. *Chevy (crybabyboy)
12; You don't have a 345 to play with.
13; You can't argue cubes for power.
14; You entire first half of the post makes you look silly. Think before you speak. If you don't, you'll look silly. I know, I've done it. Last week even.
15; Are you sure about this? You seem to make a certain something in my direction.
16; For what? It's size? Against what? A 277?
17; Thinking a 360 can not live a long life makes me wonder what your thinking. A longer stroke engine self destrucks? To much side load wears out the cyl. walls to quick. The pistons are to heavy? What is it that has you comeing up with this answer? I think we all here should know what it is that you think about this short living engine prperties. If your automotive engineer, please oh please we beg your insight. Please grace us with your divine knowleage of physics. Tell us the dynamics of this mystery equastion of metal gliding over oil in a rotating mass of power making magic. Help us of smart one. What is your logic?

Have you had enuff of me ripping your head off and crappin down it or should I go on being a dick.
Later much for you.

I like your thoughts on this. However I would like to mention that a stroker can do super well in this application without being a HI-PO type of engine. Moderate cam timing will produce a torque line as high as a mountian and flat as a calm sea.

Rumblefish,

Yes, a longer stroked motor would have certain benefits over a stock(as originally manufactured) engine and I had hesitated in even mentioning it as didn't "seem" to be what the "Live Large" was interested in doing. In his later post he seemed to confirm this idea.
I "suspect" his ideas are more towards a different camshaft, making the heads flow better and possibly a different intake/carb set up. As you well know, when starting to change items in the rotating assembly now requires intervention of a reputable machine shop adding more cost/s and further delays.
If he can spell out more of what his own thoughts are, we can all share our opinions based on that information, otherwise we are just guessing/assuming.


PS: A 408 would have been "my" choice, but that wasn't one of the options.

Actually, the 360 has the lightest stock pistons of the LA engines, and the 340 has the heaviest. (Mopar engines book)

torch

Personally, I think a stroked poly would be a great truck engine. The little ports would be great for velocity, which fits well for driveability,torque, and mileage. Don't shoot me for this comparison, but has anyone seen the ports on a non-hipo 455 Pontiac? They are not big at all, but those 455's are serious stump-pullers. The best truck engine that GM ever made, but never stuck in a truck. Just my thoughts.

torch

BillyBob :thumbsup: , cutting torch :thumbsup:

360 RV cam 302 heads or maybe some home ported 318 heads. Stock iron TQ intake TQ carb 800 or 850, 2200 stall converter RV shift kit. Pull 9 of the 12 springs in the tranny to firm the shift and have less slippage. Or even get a SP2P intake or OFFY dual port.

It has a NP420 4-speed manual tranny....No stall converter. :shrug:

I have no problems with stroking a motor to race. I don't think it is needed for my application. This truck seems to be geared really low. I am going to have to wait untill probably Thursday to do any work on it. I could not drive it last night. It seems like the brakes and Hydraulic clutch need to be bled. If I don't change the gear ratio in it it would be reving really high at 60. I have no problems spinning the tires starting in second with just the 225 in it. (I gotta fix that Hydraulic clutch)

I don't know if I will need anything more than the 318 Poly in it. The camper will be small and the biggest thing it will pull behind it with any regularity is a 18' aluminum boat. I feel pretty confidant that by the time I will need it to do more than that I will have another truck and this one will be just my daily driver and furniture hauler. :dude:

If I felt I needed to stroke a 318 to get the job done I would rather go with a 360. Now if I were building a race car my thoughts would be different and I would be more willing to investigate a stroker. I worry about longevity after the investment in machine work. Now some head work, headers, intake, cam and carb are more like what I was thinking. Does Weiand still make the 4bbl intake for the Poly? I heard they sold out. :shrug: