how can we reprogram our computers? any ideas?

[jemeadows]

i've been reading through many past posts concerning how anything more than a mild cam change will confuse our computers. this is the same problem which stops us from simply swapping our motors out for the 380hp crate motor. i have every intention of having my engine rebuilt here within the next 8 months. i plan on going all out with aluminum heads, a longer stroke, and a high performance cam to name a few things. my question is, here i am back to the computer conflict again. there must be a way around it. what do i do? is there a way to reprogram is successfully to allow for modifications such as increased displacement and a longer/hotter cam? there must be... this computer thing can't keep holding me/us back. and if there is a way to reprogram, there is a way to swap to a 380 crate motor, correct? that's not what i'll be doing...but reprogramming whether for a rebuild such as i'm doing, or for a crate motor swap shouldn't be too much of a difference. so who out there has some good ideas on reprogramming these computers to meet much higher expectations/needs???
eric

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94 Ram 1500 RegCab SWB White/Silver, 5.9L Auto, Clear Tail Lenses, Stull Polished Billet Grill, PIIA 510 Pencil Beam Driving Lights, Chrome Diff Plate w/ 4.10's, Auburn LSD, Mopar Performance Valve Covers, K&N Gen II, Mopar PCM, FlowPro Cat, MagnaFlow Muffler w/ dual rear exits.
Pioneer head unit, Cadence 50Wx4 amp to 2 6.5" infinity kappa 2ways and 2 kappa 6.5" components in the doors, Hifonics 200Wx1 amp to 2 hifonics 8's in a custom box.

[jemeadows]

hmm, i just read a post by RDABIKE
he increased the stroke on his engine which allowed for use of a hotter cam. and says the secret is to keep the overlap low so the vacuum stays high. can anyone clarify this statement? RDABIKE??? can you still have a high performance cam with a low overlap? if so, perhaps the stock computer would still work??? or does overlap make the cam? thanks
eric

[HankL]

I think BillyBob should write us a long post (at least 10,000 words) on the Haltech system he has on his Ram ;')

I think if you go heavily modified that (or a similar aftermarket computer) is the way to handle it.

In fact, I think BillyBob should buy ten Haltech systems and 'loan' them to interested RamTruckChat members to "moderately" experiment with - otherwise - what are Moderators for ?

[BillyBob]

Gee HankL, I'm not sure there's enough time in the day for a hunt+peck typist(like me) to do a post with 10,000 words but I'll try.....


Control system for custom conversion from carburetion to injection
Control of fuel injection/ignition on modified engines
Race and rally applications of all descriptions
Used in kits by kit manufacturers
Original equipment in cars and motor cycles
Design and research and development
For use in cars, motor cycles, off-road vehicles, boats, jet skis, outboards, snowmobiles, karts, motor homes, aircraft
Haltech Engine management systems are being used for all of the above applications and in the USA, South America, Canada, Japan, Germany, France, Sweden, Belgium, Switzerland, Holland, Norway, Finland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom, Russia, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Taiwan, Singapore, Cyprus, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

Haltech engine management systems are designed to be as universal as possible and one design can control from single cylinder motor cycles to V8 racing cars or with an optional extra driver box, a 12 cylinder engine, or most number of cylinders in between. It can control throttle body, multi-point or staged injection, distributor or direct ignition, naturally aspirated or turbo or supercharged engines. Name the application and in most cases Haltech can control it.

Haltech has been acknowledged by magazines such as the US "Hot Rod" and "Turbo" magazines as being the first in the world to develop engine management systems programmable in real time (with the engine running) by personal computers and Haltech hold several patents on the system.


The E6K Fuel Injection & Ignition Computer


The HALTECH E6K is a powerful "real-time" programmable fuel injection and ignition system computer designed to control most ignition type engines. Whether 1-6, 8, 10 or 12 cylinders, 1-2 rotors, naturally aspirated, turbocharged or supercharged, the HALTECH E6K can control it.

The E6K System optimises engine performance through the following capabilities:

ignition timing control
fuel control
idle speed control
closed loop





The E6K is much more than a programmable fuel injection computer - it provides logging of engine data and allows access in real time to maximise performance and trouble-shoot problems in a vehicle while running.

Typical Applications:

Conversion from carburetion to fuel injection
Control of fuel injection on modified engines
Race and rally applications of all description
Design and development purposes
Educational use by universities and technical colleges
Original equipment in cars and motorcycles.
The patented HALTECH system of programming virtually eliminates the input of numbers. You simply manipulate graphics in the form of bar graphs and by pressing arrows you increase or decrease the amount of fuel delivered at that particular load point. The process is repeated for all load points in each rpm range.

Ignition timing is precisely mapped through the rpm range so that the exact timing required to obtain optimum performance is applied in every rpm and load range.




The Haltuner


The new Haltuner is a fast an easy way to visualize the tuning of your car. Using your built in O2 sensor or one provided in the kit you can display the current reading on the Haltuners 30 LED display. With the Haltuner hooked up to your car you can see the results of the cars computer in real time.





The display is divided up into three sections representing lean, stoic and rich. The colours change to indicate which section you are in. Each section has 10 LEDs to provide a useful reading of your O2 sensor.




Demo disc is at:
demo.zip from www.haltech.com.au

Company Information

Haltech was started by Steve Mitchell with the backing of his father Bill in 1986. The original intention was to develop diagnostic equipment for electronic fuel injection but a request by a "Modern Motor" magazine to solve the problem of supplying fuel to a supercharged Ford project car led to the development of a supplementary fuel injection computer. This was followed by a turbo timer .

Haltech then developed the world's first real time PC programmable engine management system i.e. programmable with the engine running. The first system, the F2 was followed by the F3 model which was produced by the thousands and there are many of both models still running today.

Later the F7 model was produced, orginally for motor bikes and rotaries but it was no sooner released than customers were reporting proudly how well it was performing on their V8's! To accomodate what customers obviously wanted, the F7 was up-graded to F7A and then to F7B and F7C and, again large numbers were sold. Both the F3 and the F7 series have now been replaced by the F9 and F9A series. The IG4 ignition timing computer was also developed and is still a current model. Other models were produced, the Z3 marine model, the E5 fuel injection computer, the E6 and E6A fuel injection/ignition timing computers and various ancillary items such as reluctor adaptors, ignition igniters, and dual Hall effect sensors.

Screw-driver adjustable engine mangament systems had been available before the Haltech and of course there were systems such as the English Zytek which were very good systems but expensive, and at that time not progammable in real time. The Haltech was the first highly adjustable reasonably priced programmable engine mangament system available and it was the right product at the right time. It is now in use in many countries and the market is still growing.

Various specialised systems have been developed e.g. there is now a system that will control the deliver of LPG or natural gas. Similary a system is under test that will control electronically controlled diesel fuel systems. Several other engine management systems are under development and will be availble in due course.

Current Developments

Haltech has also developed a very high pressure electronically controlled diesel fuel injection system. This is of the Hydraulically actuated Electronically controlled Unit Injection (HEUI) type.

Manufacturers are seeking higher injection pressures than the typical 900 bar and the Haltech HEUI system can inject at 2,300 bar. The Haltech HEUI system has multiple benfits over other systems including the fact that it can control the injection spray pattern within the cylinder and is the only system that can control the rate of entry of fuel into the cylinder (i.e. the slope of the injection trace) upon command from the engine management system.

The system is at close to pre-production stage and is undergoing a number of tests at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. A number of manufactuers have expressed interest in the system and tests will commence shortly with the system installed on a 6 cylinder 6.7 litre D7 engine supplied by Volvo of Sweden. The system is suitable for engines of all sizes from car size engines to large industrial engines.

The Australian Government has providing grant funding for development and testing of the Haltech diesel fuel system and further funds will be sought by the Universities of N.S.W. in Sydney and the University of Inha in South Korea for a joint development project in conjunction with Haltech using both Haltech diesel fuel and engine management technology in dual fuel (diesel and natural gas) projects. The University of Inha expects to involve a major S. Korean manufacturer in this project.


Others are joining this group from time to time......

FUEL INJECTOR SIZING FORMULAE


After much research it has been found that there are several different formulae used to determine injector size. It appears that most of the various formulae in use are basically identical, with only 2 real variables, being whether or not an 80% duty cycle is accounted for and what the desired Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) should be. This is the formula with the correction based on the duty cycle:


Flow rate (lbs/hr) = Max Hp x BSFC / no. injectors x duty cycle


BSFC = 0.45 - 0.55 for naturally aspirated engines


0.55 - 0.65 for forced induction engines


Conversion from lbs/hr to cc/min = lbs/hr x 10.515


Simplified max Hp x 1.807 (nat) Simplified max Hp x 2.136 (turbo)

Hope this help a bit.....will answer any other questions if I can......

[This message has been edited by BillyBob (edited December 12, 2000).]

[RAM MAN]

HOLY COW - that took some typin' !!!

jemeadows - you might want to email RON at Z Industries - he has messed around with changing settings on computers as well.

------------------
"Good Luck on your project."

Mid Michigan MOPAR Enthusiasts http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Boulevard/4889/

[RDABIKE]

Originally posted by jemeadows:
hmm, i just read a post by RDABIKE
he increased the stroke on his engine which allowed for use of a hotter cam. and says the secret is to keep the overlap low so the vacuum stays high. can anyone clarify this statement? RDABIKE??? can you still have a high performance cam with a low overlap? if so, perhaps the stock computer would still work??? or does overlap make the cam? thanks
eric

The cam I used was ground by Comp Cams. It is grind number 20-602-8. It's specs are 262-264 duration @.006 (206-210 @ .050)and 480-512 lift. The lobe separation is 112 degrees. We just changed the lobe separation to 114 degrees. This reduces the overlap further and raises the vacuum. Also the 48 extra cubic inches and the supercharger both have the effect of smoothing out the cam as if it were smaller. I actually have 1" more vacuum at idle than I did with the stock engine.

Mark

[HankL]

Why did this post suddenly become to wide for my laptop (14 inch) screen ?

Otherwise, good job BillyBob !

[jemeadows]

thanks everyone! this information gives plenty of hope that a heavily modified engine can be made...or even a 380 swap can be done.
using the haltech, do you just plug it in somewhere between the engine and the computer?
i will call Ron at Z industries and see what his opinions are. whether he is reprogramming them or using something like Haltech.
Before i go off all happy and jumping up and down, please tell me it's okay to think the following things. LOL

-> Would the Haltech make a 380 crate motor swap pretty simple? The computer conflict was the main issue with this swap. So it really can be done?

-> Would the Haltech make a custom engine with a larger displacement and a higher performance cam run just fine?

Seems like this Haltech E6K would be ideal for both situations and make computer adjustment worries the least of my problems instead of the biggest.
Thanks!!
Eric Meadows

also, will cam with a duration that isn't excessivly high (over 300 i guess?) will always be needed?? i've heard this is what makes the vacuum in the truck. don't see how haltech could fix that. lol and can someone tell me if you can still get high performance from a cam with a limited duration to around...300(?)...?

[This message has been edited by jemeadows (edited December 11, 2000).]

[SweetnLow]

Originally posted by jemeadows:
thanks everyone! this information gives plenty of hope that a heavily modified engine can be made...or even a 380 swap can be done.
using the haltech, do you just plug it in somewhere between the engine and the computer?

I dont konw if it would be any easier, but it would make the engine run correctly. But it could/would require a bit of tuning. also, the Haltech would pretty much replace your computer as the fuel/ignition computer. You would still need your computer for some things such as cruise control, a/c control, etc etc.

i will call Ron at Z industries and see what his opinions are. whether he is reprogramming them or using something like Haltech. Ron simpley takes the mopar sbec and puts it into a special machine and reprograms the computer values for your specific needs. The biggest problem with the stock and MP computer is that they have set values for certain inputs. They only have enough info for certain criteria, ie for a certain range of vaccum settings, and so the computer doesnt know what to do when you get out of this range. Ron will adjust everything so that the engine has parameters for a larger range of inputs, and he can custom tune your computer for your specific modifications.

Before i go off all happy and jumping up and down, please tell me it's okay to think the following things. LOL

-> Would the Haltech make a 380 crate motor swap pretty simple? The computer conflict was the main issue with this swap. So it really can be done?
It will make it run better, but probably wont be any easier with all the tuning required. b]


-> Would the Haltech make a custom engine with a larger displacement and a higher performance cam run just fine?[/b]
Yup, with the Haltech you can adjust all the parameters you want and make just about any engine run great!! But you have to know what parameters to play with to do what you need.

also, will cam with a duration that isn't excessivly high (over 300 i guess?) will always be needed?? i've heard this is what makes the vacuum in the truck. don't see how haltech could fix that. lol and can someone tell me if you can still get high performance from a cam with a limited duration to around...300(?)...?
with the Haltech you can run just about anything you want to, as long as you can adjust the computer (haltech) to deal with it.



Clay


[This message has been edited by jemeadows (edited December 11, 2000).][/B]

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1996 Indy Ram, scrapin pavement with a 7/8 DJM drop and 285/40/17 GoodYear GSCs, Mopar Performance Computer, 180 thermostat, Trans-GO shift kit, Edelbrock headers w/ y pipe, custom exhaust w/ Flowmast Race series muffler, MPI single plant intake, Custom 52mm Quick D TB, March Performance pulleys, Top Gun nitrous, Flex-a-Lite 210 electric fan, MSD 8.8 Super Conductor wires, Accel Cap/Rotor/Plugs, K&N FIPK, and more!
On the way: Engine rebuild for ATI Procharger w/ aftercooler w/ 14 PSI boost

[This message has been edited by SweetnLow (edited December 12, 2000).]

[BillyBob]

jemeadows,

While it is true the Haltech needs to be set up to your particular situation it is pre-prgrammed enough to get you going, professional installation & set-up is preferred......Mine was installed a year ago & has run flawlessly since.........any future mods can be adjusted for, simply by hooking up a laptop and re-do the necessary programming.......

I'd suggest that you do a bit more reading on the subject and I think that you'll find that it meets or exceeds you situation...

[RAM MAN]

KRC says they will reprogram any PCM from MOPAR - check out http://members.spree.com/business/krcperform/

Just another option

------------------
"Good Luck on your project."

Mid Michigan MOPAR Enthusiasts http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Boulevard/4889/

[RDABIKE]

The problem with the 380 crate motor for a late model Ram is that the cam is to agressive for our speed density fuel injection, but many modifications can be done. George at Real Performance 713-858-8095(www.rpmoutlet.com)can re-program the stock computer and is quite reasonable.

Mark
------
1997 Dodge Ram 1500 Club Cab 4wd, 5.9 auto
4.10 gears with OEM limited slip rear & true track locker front, Mag-Hytec deep covers.
Trans Go shift Kit & B&M deep pan
16 x 8 Centerline Hellcat rims w/ 315-75r-16 Big O XT Tires
2" front spacer w/1" block rear and rancho shocks
Dark Green, Grey interior, nerf bars, custom billet grill & full width billet bumper insert

Engine: 5.9 360 @ .030 M.P. 4" stroke f/408 cid
Childs & Albert rods, JE forged pistons 8:0-1 reverse dome, gapless rings
Precision balance & blueprint, main & head studs, Barton roller timing set
Custom Comp Cam (20-602-8) 205-210 duration 480-512 lift changed to a 114 deg centerline
M.P. replacement heads w/stainless steel valves
Major port work on heads & intake
Magnum Performance plenum blower plate
M.P. 1.6 roller rockers, Custom chromemoly pushrods
Milodon 4 x 4 oil pan, 8 quart
Kenne Bell supercharger at 2.5 times over driven
Kenne Bell air to air intercooler
MSD-6 BTM ignition and blaster coil, MSD 8.5m wires
Modified OEM computer by George at RPM Outlet
Haltech F-5 auxiliary injector controller w/ 2-60 lb injectors
42 lb engine injector set
Vortech T-Rex Fuel Pump with fuel loop system
Vortech F.M.U. Controller
Magnum Performance Blower Throttle Body
Kenne Bell headers & 2 ½” Mandrel Crossover
Dr. Gas 3" tandem crossover, 2-3" hi flow cats, 2-30 series Flowmasters & full 3" dual exhaust system, stock exit.

[RS/T Ram]

a friend of mine ordered a 2001 dodge ram sport and he special ordered a crate 380 in it, they modified something to adapt it, they also used the stock intake and added bigger injectors to it, its a quick truck for not having anything done after just droping in the crate motor, so i know it can be done, i might be able to find out what all had to be done if i can remember next time i talk to him

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When in doubt, make it faster.

Like a midget at a urinal, i'll have to keep on my toes.

[RamThis]

Eric, yank that mopar crap out and stick in a PENTIUM III !!!!!!!

:!CAUTION!: Some Assembly Required>

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RT


96 Club Cab SLT Laramie 360 Auto,Shortbed, Moss Green, Dual painted silver SS/T stripes
Current Mods 4.10:1 gears, Detrot "NoSpin" Posi-locker, gutted cat, Flowmaster cat back exhaust, K&N drop in filter, Alpine CD Max Head Unit (CDA7939), Alpine Sound Field Processor (ERA-G320), 2 10" MTX subs in a MTX custom fit Thunderform box, 2 Alpine DDDrive 6x9's, Clarion Amp, NR Auto White Face Guages, Reflexxion Domination Series Cowl Hood, Race Truck Trends front bumper, Street Scene Speed Grille inserts, custom paintjob.
To come: MPULSE Lo-Pro fiberglass Tonneau, 2-4 drop, Bodymatch sprayed in bed liner, Jet Hot coated headers, duals, QD intake, Vortech blower, engine overhaul, Water/Alcohol Injection, custom computer program, cal-tracs, Cragar Drag Star rims, darker tint, leather seats, and various other small items
http://home.talkcity.com/thepits/rm_indy/RamThis.html