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  #1  
Old 08-10-2003, 10:48 AM
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Default Parasitic losses...

HI All
As I am looking at changing my rear end from a very silly 2.24 to a more reasonable 3 ish, one thing I am concerned about is the fuel economy change, what with running the engine about 600 rpm faster at 60 mph. To that end, I am looking to minimize parasitic losses. Some things are obvious (synthetic oils, etc), but I am looking for any other tips or options that would help.
Thanks!
Erik

BTW Car is a mildly modded 85 5th Ave, soon to receieve Demonsizzlered TQ.
  #2  
Old 08-10-2003, 06:33 PM
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Synthetics wont help you out at all. IT will waste your money. The dyno shows no improvement. The gear upgrade will help mpg when it cones to in town driving too.

HEre's some things tha will help your mpg as well as hp and tq performance. Underdrive pulleys will help a lot. Aluminum wheels with narrow tires as possible with high inflation pressures. Trade odd is handling there.
Anything to reduce weight. Like remove the insert from behind the bumpers and lighten it up. Use a smaller 904 drive shaft or get an aluminum one made up. Aluminum radiator will improve cooling and loose weight and can be bought as low as 205.Mini starters save space and weight too.
Set timming high and use headers. On your dual exhaust use an H or X pipe. X is better. Improves low end tq and adds 3 to 7 hp up top.

Hope that helps some. All of these items will increase performance as well as mpg.
  #3  
Old 08-10-2003, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dwc43


Synthetics wont help you out at all. IT will waste your money. The dyno shows no improvement.


Whaaaaaaat ?????........you get your info from where ?
  #4  
Old 08-10-2003, 06:57 PM
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The dyno.
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Old 08-10-2003, 06:59 PM
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WHOSE dyno might that be?
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Old 08-10-2003, 07:04 PM
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CnC Motorpsorts.
  #7  
Old 08-10-2003, 07:11 PM
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LOL

Who the hell is CnC motorsports?

I would have to side with the people who say that syn oils ARE worth "power"........

..........such as the CTC dynos and WJ - just to mention two sources.
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Old 08-10-2003, 07:19 PM
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Your choice, your wallet, but it aint there to be found.
  #9  
Old 08-10-2003, 07:30 PM
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Default I beg to differ.....

Well, DWC....
I usually agree with your posts, but I gotta take issue with this one. All the synthetic oil tests I have seen going back about 25 years now, have shown improvements. Going WAY back, when Motor Trend was doing some REAL interesting stuff about fuel economy back in the early to mid 70's (still totally relevant to people with carb'ed cars), the switch to the early synthetics was one of the single biggest gas mileage improvements. Almost every test I have seen since then shows an improvement. Usually not huge (8-10 hp on a 400 engine), but there nonetheless.
Oh, and in other matters, isn't the fan one of the bigger eaters of HP in a car?
Erik
  #10  
Old 08-10-2003, 07:37 PM
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I had a student who did a "natural" oil vs. synthetic oil test on our school dyno with my Super Street 440. We didn't test for "gas mileage" but we did test for HP differences. He started out with regular Pennzoil 10-40 as a baseline oil. The engine made 529 peak HP. (10:1 440 with Isky roller, home ported 346 heads, TM-7 manifold and a Holley 800 carb. He then switched to Pennzoil synthetic 10-30. The HP DROPPED to 525. The next oil was Mobil I 10-30 synthetic. Again the HP was 525. His last try was with Mobil I 0-5W and the HP went up to 528. I was controlling the water brake manually, so I can't say these numbers were EXACTLY dead on, but for sure, there was NO HP gain with synthetic oil. I have run both synthetic and non synthetic in my race car engines and have never seen a noticeble performance gain with the synthetics.
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Old 08-10-2003, 07:43 PM
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Yes it is and I completly forgot about it. Use a plastc flex flan or go electric. You can get them in 2450 cfm. We use them on our race cars with great results.
  #12  
Old 08-10-2003, 07:49 PM
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Default Plastic or electric, huh?

Hey DWC....
Any recommendations on plastic fans? I know I sell replacement fans at Advance, but I never looked into something like this. SHould I run a different fan clutch too?
How much do the electric fans draw? Will my stock alternator, etc. be up to it?
Erik
  #13  
Old 08-10-2003, 07:57 PM
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Idea

NO power to be found? ........ no horsepower to be saved?

This CnC motorsports outfit is either NOT performing the tests properly OR they are lieing.

And on the electric fan.....they make these single units UP to 2950 cfm.
  #14  
Old 08-10-2003, 07:58 PM
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I think the ones I sell are 12 amp draws and I run a stock alt with underdrive pulleys on the oval track cars with msd 7 al2's and there is no probs with it on these cars.

Some tracks wont allow electric fans so I run the Flex A Lite plastic flex fan with an aluminum spacer that is moded for less weight too. Works great. Blades go almost flat at speed so no air draw or drag at all. They are good to 8,000 rpm too.
  #15  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dwc43



so I run the Flex A Lite plastic flex fan with an aluminum spacer that is moded for less weight too. Works great. Blades go almost flat at speed so no air draw or drag at all.


You are talking about that molded plastic fan - with that huge fan-blade angle ?
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Old 08-10-2003, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by b-1ken
I had a student who did a "natural" oil vs. synthetic oil test on our school dyno with my Super Street 440. We didn't test for "gas mileage" but we did test for HP differences. He started out with regular Pennzoil 10-40 as a baseline oil. The engine made 529 peak HP. (10:1 440 with Isky roller, home ported 346 heads, TM-7 manifold and a Holley 800 carb. He then switched to Pennzoil synthetic 10-30. The HP DROPPED to 525. The next oil was Mobil I 10-30 synthetic. Again the HP was 525. His last try was with Mobil I 0-5W and the HP went up to 528. I was controlling the water brake manually, so I can't say these numbers were EXACTLY dead on, but for sure, there was NO HP gain with synthetic oil. I have run both synthetic and non synthetic in my race car engines and have never seen a noticeble performance gain with the synthetics.
Thanks for the back up there. Your are very correct you dont gain anything from synthetic use. I was surprised you lost so much hp though. Could this be due to the manual brake? It also makes no difference in our race cars either, ecept in the pocket book.
  #17  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:14 PM
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Back up ?......of what...............UNcorrect info ??

CALL anyone at the Big Three dyno operations and ASK THEM.

Then CALL any of the big Nascar or NHRA or IHRA engine builders to SEE what they say.
  #18  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mister Fiberglass



You are talking about that molded plastic fan - with that huge fan-blade angle ?
It does not have a steep angle and it goes almost completly flat at 4000 rpm. Dyno shows good numbers with it.
  #19  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mister Fiberglass
NO power to be found? ........ no horsepower to be saved?

This CnC motorsports outfit is either NOT performing the tests properly OR they are lieing.

And on the electric fan.....they make these single units UP to 2950 cfm.
THat;s right no power to be found with synthetics. Want argue the point any longer since you want to believe other wise. No the dyno dont lie. I watched it myself while it was being done. Reread b1kens post for further proof. 2950 is way too much, not to mention the amp draw it must have.
  #20  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:17 PM
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do you have a pic of the fan that you are talking about ? the only plastic fan that I know of LIKE the one you describe - the only way that will go flat is to run a steamroller over it.
  #21  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:19 PM
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I could probable take a pic of mine if I can get it on here. THey do go ALMOST flat at speed though.
  #22  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:23 PM
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LOL

2450 cfm is OK but a 2950 cfm fan is tooooo much ???

YOUR dyno does not fib ?? ....well how about the ones at DC, GM and Ford that say syn oils WORK ??? And all of the race teams that DO use syn oils ....they don't know what they are doing?

  #23  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:28 PM
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Dont know about dc,gm junk or ferd dyno's. Never used one. The only reason SOME race teams use snythetic is because the only thing it will do is not break down as QUICKLY as standard oil does under heat. That's the only reason they use it. Not all teams use it either.
  #24  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:32 PM
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LOL

Hey dwc....do you post JUST to see your post count go up?
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Old 08-10-2003, 08:36 PM
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I answered your question, nothing more, nothing less. And I usually post to help others out and to converse some times like most others on here do. I dont pay a lot of attention to the post counter. Makes me no money, so what's the point.
  #26  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:41 PM
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LOL

YOU made my point on the last post............

You think that the oil out of a Nascar car AFTER a race is unuseable ?

Just HOW do ANY of your posts here make you any money ? WHY do you post here then ?
  #27  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:47 PM
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Cheer up money was a joke. Go reread the other part to answer your question.
Why would oil be reusable from any car after it is run?
To answer the q, I know it's not useable again. Full of metal, trash,fuel, etc. etc. etc.
  #28  
Old 08-10-2003, 08:50 PM
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BUT look at this topic.............

You said that syn oils were NOT worth any power or power savings.

THIS is not true.

And that oil IS useable........in any kind of motor.
  #29  
Old 08-10-2003, 09:00 PM
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You dont get power from resisting heat and breakdown. You make power from reduceing heat and friction which it does not do.

The oil is not usable after a race either. I repeat, metal shavings, fuel soak, dirt, trash, etc. etc . found in any oil after it is run. Makes it useless unless you want to scar up new bearings and cylinder walls.

We change oil in ours after every race night. You can smell the fuel in an oval track car. It's due to wash down from all of the on and off again up and down the rpm scale all night. If we ran Daytona you proably wont smell it since it can be run wide open. And on dirt tracks forget it. There is always dirt in it. No matter what filters you use it's in there. Dirt tracks are real hard on all equipement used.

Had to prove it to a red line dealer rep one time just to teach him a lesson. He could not belive it either till we showed him how bad dirt racing was on engines. HE just could not figure out why we changed the oil so often till I showed him. HE was kinda flaky any ways. HE just had the sales pitch memorized, he did not know a lot about anything at all.
  #30  
Old 08-10-2003, 09:04 PM
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mister fiberglass, what is your problem? i run mobil 1 in my cars, not because it will free up hp but because it holds up better, doesnt break down.
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