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  #1  
Old 03-06-2003, 01:08 AM
Cliff Foster Cliff Foster is offline
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Help How much Camshaft is enough and legal?

Just curious about Camshaft combinations as far as lift/durations and degreeing them. I have a friend of mine in AZ that has been experimenting with a computer program that he can put in different variations of lift/duration/overlap/cam degree and other factor and plug them into a program and get the power numbers from a computer dyno. My question is how much camshaft can I get away with and pass emmissions. I want to make lots of streetable power and I can even have my cam changed when it's time for the sniffer. My current cam specs are as follows:
************************************************** **
Competition Cams part #20-602-8
gross valve lift .408int/.512exh
dur @ .006 tappet lift 262int/264exh
valve timing@.006
int 23BTDC(open) 59ABDC(close)
exh 68BBDC(open) 16ATDC(close)
Spec are for a cam installed @108 intake center line
Duration @.050 206int/210exh
Lobe lift .3000int/.3200ex
lobe seperation 112
************************************************** **

My friend says that he needs the flow #'s from my heads to custom grind my camshaft for my truck. After getting flow bench #'s he would actually send the custom grind #'s to Comp Cams and they would grind the cam for him and send it back. He's allready done a few cams and have sent them out to be ground and are waiting for them to return.
My question is: How much variance in the numbers can I have to make the most of my stroker and still be emission legal? Or not? Do I need the big lift for the big HP? Help me/us here? I do have a 2500-2800rpm torque convertor in a ext/cab dakota with 3.55 gears that will go to 4.10 or 3.91.
Should I, could I, go that route or should I go to KRC Performance/comp cams/or whatever cam company and get one of their cams off the shelf for my stroker or go the custom ground way?
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  #2  
Old 03-06-2003, 02:53 AM
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JVMopar JVMopar is offline
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I'm sorry to say but your stroker will never be emissions legal, because it's a stroker motor. And any cam besides the stock grind or one that is CARB certified is not emissions legal.

BUT

I'm not saying that they ever have to know about it

One thing with passing the test will be not having a cam with different idle characteristics from stock. You don't want a lumpy idle.

Another thing to take into consideration is that if you go too radical on the cam it will require a custom flashed computer.
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Old 03-06-2003, 09:17 AM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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pass emissions.. it might be easier to keep your stock cam in a box under your work bench. stick it in the car for that test, and then swap it all back out. Yeah, alot of trouble, but a sure way to pass emissions.. Man... I love living in florida. no emissions.
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Old 03-06-2003, 10:33 AM
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6 packin 6 packin is offline
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I dont think the stroker engine will hurt on emissions. The size of the motor is not relitave to the emissions. You will need to hook up all smog equipment, EGR, catlytic converters, and ther polution things. Holley does make carbs that WILL pass the sniffer test. Go to there web site, check them out. Single cat back exhaust will help. A above average igntion will help also. Like MSD 6AL. You did not mention what engine this was? If a small block mach a late 80's small block and use its stuff. If a Big Block get some computer cam numbers from your choice of manufacter and have it ground for a big block.

Good Luck
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2003, 10:57 AM
Cliff Foster Cliff Foster is offline
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The motor is a 360 magnum engine for a 92' and later dakota. It has been stroked out to 408ci. My truck is a '98. Fuel injected, 52mm holley tbi. The cam is CARB legal I do believe. I have been told that I can run the tank really low and put in a few bottles of rubbing alcohol for the test. That helps clean the emmissions. I do have a single catback-highflo-3" exhaust. My idle isn't lopey at all and actually idles at about 800rpm and is really smooth.
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Old 03-06-2003, 11:18 AM
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Sounds like a great engine!

Happy motoring!
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Old 03-06-2003, 11:37 AM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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You can't get too radical on the camshaft or it will screw up the injection. Overlap is what gives a cam it's idle characteristics so that is the main culprit here so as long as that stays close you should be OK.
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Old 03-08-2003, 03:36 AM
Dart_Swinger Dart_Swinger is offline
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I've got a couple of 'tips';
1. I've heard that as long as you keep the duration under 224 degrees it should pass e-check (keep the LSA stock) with as much lift as you want.

2. A few people i know took their vehicles to have them e-checked, well, they had dual exhaust and they couldn't accurately measure the emissions with the vehicle cruising so they just checked it with the vehicle in PARK, and go figure, at idle it passed e-check.

Just my two cents, if anybody has any info on the first tip i'd like to know if i've heard right or not...thanks

Adrian
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Old 03-08-2003, 03:29 PM
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:shock: Rubbing alcohol?

Rubbing alcohol is 30% water, go ahead check it out.
Adding Methanol, Ethanol, or even MTBE might help, but a good oxygenated unleaded (GT100) fuel will work better. Due to it's lower distilation curve, and it's oxygen content.
Your friend is right, you will need a good idea of how your heads flow, you don't want to over cam and shorten your powerband, although 206/210 doesn't sound too big, even for stock heads.
I have always beleived emission motors, stroker motors, and blower motors all like wide LSA's. Hughes has their Magnum rollers with 114*.
You might want to have your friend enter in specs from some of the Hughes cams to see how much more power they will make.
Also your intake lift is .480" not .408", but I'm sure 408 is just one of those numbers your used to typing
Call the cam manufacturers give them your specs see what they say, even if you can tell them what heads you have and what was done to them, or not done to them.
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2003, 07:23 PM
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ehostler ehostler is offline
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Not all states require CARB certifications on aftermarket parts. CARB (California Air Resources Board) just means that part with pass the visual in the state of California (and thus any other state).

Most other states only make sure that you have a functioning PCV, oil breather, and air cleaner. Then they make sure that what comes out the tailpipe is up to standards.

Many states also have waiver, if it is going to cost more than $500 for repairs to make the car emmisions legal. I used to have the waiver on a '67 Charger that I had in California (during the late 80s).
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2003, 01:38 AM
Cliff Foster Cliff Foster is offline
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GMBLOWS, you are correct. I did make a "typo". That lift is .480/.512. and yes my buddy did tell me to run the tank low and put alcohol in it, I think he said rubbing alcohol that you can buy from Walgreen's in it. The normal household stuff. Unless there is another storebought type of alcohol.
I will also ask my friend about those cams at KRCPerformance. They sounded pretty hot. My heads have been given the treatment and been ported and polished, intake and exhaust and had the bowls and valves done as well. They flow very well. All of the guys(mechanics) that had a chance to take a look at them before they went back into the truck were impressed at the work on them. Even my buddy that has worked on NHRA cars and builds his own motors and cars out of his garage was impressed. He's a Chebby guy, but likes Mopars. He just doesn't work on them very much.
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2003, 03:50 AM
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That cam should pass emissions,remember though there are a bunch of factors that could cause it to fail,a bad o2 sensor,antifreeze thats gotten into the catalytic,a vaccum leak,too much or too little timing,a dirty air filter,worn plugs and too high of compression(your moving more air at a set rpm and thereby produce more by products)but Ive sniffed a few exh pipes with a gas analyzer for a few years(some say too many)and based on the cam specs it has a good chance of passing,if it doesnt dont immediately blame the cam.Heres what your looking for prior to getting it sniffed,good gas mileage and good low end response,tune it for that not hp,check everything Ive listed and maybe even get it scanned by someone who knows mopars and can run a DRB,a good mechanic will be able to give you a more than reasonable idea if its going to pass based on what he sees on the DRB and catch any probs before you get tested.If it doesnt pass and your running bigger injectors go back to the stock ones,itll run like crap but itll lean it out and really help you pass just dont drive anymore than you have too like that,good luck.............PRO.........
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  #13  
Old 03-09-2003, 11:58 AM
Tim_K Tim_K is offline
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Here's what to do:

1. Find a mechanic who you can just pay off to put your new sticker on the windshield.

2. Build the engine any way you like!

It's much more fun when you are emissions illegal!

My 1971 Valiant is emissions exempt, but just out of curiosity I once put it on a tester. The cammed up /6 4 barrel (Holley 450 mechanical secondary) likes a rich mixture to idle. The HC was over 3000 at idle! Leaning out the idle lowered the HC, but also hurt the idle. So I richened it back up again until it idled good, and to hell with the emissions!
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