Wild engine efficiency improvers

[rampage_82]

IDK if I'd be brave enough to try Acetone or Alky in a TQ, as I've heard that they have a problem with gumming up / warping anyways. But more power to ya if you wanna try.

[namvet67a1f]

Originally Posted by rampage_82

Hey Mopekid do some research, before go and trying those various snake-oil remedy's.

The "kid" has been asked for some "proof" ... and all he does is post stuff that does not support anything he alleges.

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by Dick

Ah, yes......the famous "Fuel Conspiracy" brought up again. The oil companies bought the secrets to getting 100 mpg from cat piss.

No no no, that was YAK PISS that they used. I read it in the enquirer!!!

[adodgemann]

Mopekid check out Henry(smokey)Yunick's hot vapor cycle engine. Read Smokey's book, The Best Damn Garage In Town, anyone with a passion for cars should read this book!!! Gives you an idea how much the government, banks, big business, oil companies, world leaders, really care about the common people. What about the sterling engine, it runs off temperature differences. Will run off of a cup of ice or a cup of hot coffee. Not much practical use yet, but it does work. We can all play follow the leader, or dare to think outside the box.

[MOPEkid]

Originally Posted by namvet67a1f

The "kid" has been asked for some "proof" ... and all he does is post stuff that does not support anything he alleges.

Okay, what exactly should I be saying differently? I don't really want proof on why these ideas aren't totally reliable... What I wanted when I posted this thread is a good reason why I shouldn't try any of these things just for the heck of it! It seems like it would be a crime if I threw a piece of screen under my carb to see what would happen!

Sigh, I don't think this will work, like many of you guys said this isn't the right place to be discussing this stuff. Sorry if I wasted your guys' time...

[pcrmike]

Sorry, guys, but I have tried a few of these "snake oil" remedies like the screen, etc with great results. I run a 360 SB, .440/.440 @260* with bowl ported, matched, cc'd heads, 10:1 comp, for the last eight years and first five in a crew cab 1 ton single with 4.11 Dana 60, and 265/75R16 rears. With a custom built A618 (46RE) from a cummins diesel, swapped guts into a V-8 bell, with lockup. Now, here were the results. It put out 340 HP at the flywheel and 428 tq with over 400 tq from 2000-4000 RPM, and it pulled everything I ever hooked up to with it. 30K pounds n a stupid pull with a trailer that couldn't handle it. With it in OD, locked up at 60 MPH it would turn about 1800 RPM. I run a 600 cfm Eddy on it with a spacer and a cupped screen under it. Large tube headers and 3" exhaust. best of 22 MPG on a highway mileage run, but was a tick lean if I stepped on it. tuned it out, and still would get 20 MPG empty on the highway. Never got worse than 12 out of it even with my big camper on it. It is now in my CB Dually, with an A-833 and 4.56 rear. Mileage stinks, but at 45 it turns 2800. I am in process of swapping the trans into it. Will report afterward, but here's the rub. Before the spacer and cupped screen, it got a best of 16 mpg. I also was able to back it down one jet size and up one rod size with the stoich in perfect range. I built this engine eight years ago, and it stil runs great today. I will report as soon as I swap trannys. Now, I tried the magnets too, and no real change. Royal Purple oil actually helped about 5% on fuel usage. Strange, but true. :-)PCRmike

[MOPEkid]

Hmm, cool, a board member who actually TRIED something! That's what I was looking for. I'll really believe people when they actually say they've tried something (and I DO believe those who said the acetone doesn't work; I now doubt its credibility).

BTW pcrmike, where did you get the cupped screen from? Or did you make it yourself?

[RacerHog]

1977 Dodge D150
360 C.I. / T.Q.
727 A/T
2.73 Axle ratio
31x10.50x15 Tires
Run 87 Oct. Fuel

Gets 10 MPG Loaded
or 14 MPG Unloaded
If you have your foot in it... It's around 8 MPG

No joke

[TrashedCharger]

What most people don't understand is that when you change your fuel, you change the burn rate and BTU's with it. So no matter what you do, weather it's a functional water injection system, setting up for E-85 or simply running higher octane fuel, you need to adjust the parts of your engine and tune it to run properly and efficiently with the new/ different fuel.

Unless your car has a cam or crank position censor and the timing and air/fuel ratio are controlled by a computer, you need to make the adjustments to run a different fuel yourself!

I have a car that runs on a cam position sensor instead of a distributor and it will actually use 85 and 91 octane fuels properly. It will adjust the timing and A/F ratio according to the octane level of the fuel picked up by the O2 sensor and adjust the timing accordingly, but like I said, unless you have a computer making these adjustments for you, if you change what you put in your gas tank, you need to make sure that your engine runs on it properly. Otherwise you will get absolutey nothing from changing your fuel.

[RacerHog]

Come on trash...Throw out the numbers on all that equipment you drive.....You have to have some kind of numbers to give us?????

[pcrmike]

Made it myself from brass screen, so if it comes apart, it won;t trach the motor. Stock, b4 the mods, and before the rebuild, racerhogs numbers are exactly what mine got. I did a lot of buildingthis thing on the computer b4 building it in metal. The cam is a Comp Magnum Series and is installed 1 degree advanced. Mods onthe heads were geared toward keeping velocity up for the low/mid range and actually surprised me at the HP output. It peaked at 5250 RPM at 340 HP and fell off quickly from there. Still the talk of my friends. My dad and I took the old truck to michigan with two fuel tanks, one 30gal, one 36 gal and made it there (950+ miles) without getting gas once. We had a loaded trailer behind it maybe 2000 pounds and less than 1000 inhe bed. Not a big load. Still made a believer out of Dad. I drive smooth too. Don't jab the gas and coast when possible. :-)PCRMike

[Rug_Trucker]

Originally Posted by bigj3341

If you find anyway to burn anything especially efficently you will be stopped. There was a guy that figured out how to burn water(yes water) through the use of radio waves. He ran a small block chevy v8 on it for quite sometime. It was written about in a few articles and then nothing. He was silenced. More than likely fuel companies because the less of a dependency for oil. Water is a very abundent source. lol. Anyway, also this is not the best place for asking people how to improve mpg's. Mopar guys in general, but not all, are guys that are fast. Performance motivated guys. If you want mpg's get a cobalt or a turbocharged 4cyl. Gas is 3.10 a gallon here and no matter how much i will buy it i need to get around and make sacrificies were need be. I see how you would want to get more mpg's outta your daily driver but it gas is a problem you should have got a beater 4cyl that gets like 30pg's. Everyone wants power and fuel economy. But it is a fine balance you have to give to receive. 22mpg in your car is pretty good. I have a pontiac g6 that gets 21/22 which is pretty well in my mind. If you want some power and 20 mpg's thats a good balance. You have good ideas just be careful you dont blow your self up expirimenting.

Where is the links for burning water??


AFA Acetone I tried over 3 days of driving from Naples to Ft.Lauderdale. No improvement. Most "octane boosters" have acetone in them. They won't hurt anything in a Mopar fuel system. Didn't do squat to my 72 Duster in '05 stock tank and sock.

Don't worry about that Thermoquad it will handle anything you pump into it.

AFA those screens? Hmmmmm! I heard they might work better at the intake port as fuel can fall out of suspension. Would love to see some pics.

Someone used to sell those things.....? Water injection is a nice idea. Just have to mix in some alcohol in the winter.

[adodgemann]

Originally Posted by RacerHog

1977 Dodge D150
360 C.I. / T.Q.
727 A/T
2.73 Axle ratio
31x10.50x15 Tires
Run 87 Oct. Fuel

Gets 10 MPG Loaded
or 14 MPG Unloaded
If you have your foot in it... It's around 8 MPG

No joke

Funny, I get 17-18 highway in my 73 power wagon, 30 over 360, eddy intake, 600 holly, crane RV cam, headers. 3.55 gears, 727 auto, 33x9.50x15 tires. I know I can plow snow for 14 hours strait on 1 tank, 30 gallons. My chevy buddies, takes them 2 tanks full, kind of pisses em off.

[RacerHog]

Originally Posted by adodgemann

Funny, I get 17-18 highway in my 73 power wagon, 30 over 360, eddy intake, 600 holly, crane RV cam, headers. 3.55 gears, 727 auto, 33x9.50x15 tires. I know I can plow snow for 14 hours strait on 1 tank, 30 gallons. My chevy buddies, takes them 2 tanks full, kind of pisses em off.

Only an 18 gallon tank here.....Still passing smog checks here in So-Cal....Cant do headers or remove smog system yet.....Just might be the differance???

[Rug_Trucker]

Originally Posted by pcrmike

Sorry, guys, but I have tried a few of these "snake oil" remedies like the screen, etc with great results. I run a 360 SB, .440/.440 @260* with bowl ported, matched, cc'd heads, 10:1 comp :-)PCRmike

What heads? I am working on some 302's

[pcrmike]

I am running a modded set of 915's. I have a omplete Magnum 360 I am doing the research on to see about building one even meaner for when this one wears out. I want to be as thorough in my numbers as I was on this one. I have also thought about the sandwich intake gaskets with screen, but it thrwows such a monkey wrench in the port volume. The only way it would work is with a smaller intake on a large port head, like an Eddy Performer 318/360 and use it with a larger port head and blend it. I built one like that once on the computer and never could get it just right for a smooth balanced flow without really hurting top end numbers. Torque was incredible, as was volumetric efficiency and projected burn characteristics. I just couldn't see giving up 50 HP on the top. I am near that type of setup now. Key to it is port velocity. My intake is on the smaller side, and velocity is vital, as is vac signal if you are going to try a screen. Not enough vac signal and you get the F/A mix going around the screen lazily. Here's the deal: If you cut the screen and look at it from the end, and look closely, it looks like:
OOOOOOOOOOOOO

You see the wire, right? Between each strand of wire, is a venturi. Like ina carb. If you put it on straight, it restricts flow. If you use an open plenum, and "bowl shape it" about halfway dow, with a spacer on top of it, it allows the mix to draw evenly through the screen, and fill the plenum with no restrictions. The difference in low speed stuff like off idle, etc, is definitely noticeable, Use a stoichiometer for tuning and you will find you can tune the carb down and get the same power and better MPG, or get more power at the same MPG if you leave it alone. Your exhaust cleans up well too. My BIL has a tailpipe sniffer for use with diesel and fuel type furnaces, and on my truck with no cats, vs his 91 Ford with two cats, mine had the cleaner exhaust. The mini venturis brak up the fuel droplets in the manifold. The vapor is all that totally burns anyway, and the black smoke yousee when someone nails the gas is unburned fuel. Your engine will require less fuel to do the same work, and will get better MPG if you use it, but be prepared to retune the carby a little, and be amazed. NOTE: Does not make as much difference on a large cam. It does require good vac signal to make the most difference. The majority of the benefit comes at small throttle openings for MPG and power differences are had regardless of cam at larger openings. Throttle response is killer now too. I have done this for folks a number of times and I consider it to be one of my secret weapons on street motors I build. :-) PCRmike

[aarracer]

pcrmike quote:

My intake is on the smaller side, and velocity is vital, as is vac signal if you are going to try a screen. Not enough vac signal and you get the F/A mix going around the screen lazily.

Hey Mike

Have you considerred gapless rings for that better vacuum signal. I believe they will give you what you need!

AARRACER

[Rug_Trucker]

What intake are you running? LD4B? I like my Offy. It is a 318 port model. the 302's I started are port matched on the intake. Port matched on the exhaust top and sides. On the bottom they have the injection port bump flattened, and just smoothed.

I wonder if they make a screen spacer for the Qjet-TQ?

I see what you mean on the little venturi's on the wire!

[pcrmike]

No I haven't. So far it has done well. When I built it I built it tight anyway. They normally allow for .008 wall to piston clearance and after my prep, I built it at .055 and a tight gap (I don't remember now) on the rings as I knew my tune would not get the crowns too hot. Eight years and still uses zero oil. Close to 80K in two chassis. Yes, I have ny own boring bar and all. Put a super stock prep on the next set of rods I got as I didn;t get the Sunnen in time to do my own. I can do any of my own machine work except tanking and valve guide replacement. Still looking to get those. The bores were done custom to each piston. I don;t have blowby either. I don;t really need to ditch this engine, but I have hte bug to build the Magnum. This engine I let be bought from me five years ago for $2500 when the old truck wore out. He had it for two years, and I got it back. :-)PCRmike

[pcrmike]

Rug, I built a set of 302's for a guy with a 360 Ramcharger and 3.23 gears he now has over 430 tq and about 300 horses, and gets 19 MPG with a 727. His and mine are both eddy performer DP. If you want that kind f result with your 302's, I have a set here about half done withthe needed port and blending work. PM me. :-)PCRMike

[Rug_Trucker]

I've got $120 in my 302's right now with cost and magging. I haven't touched them in a year. No need for them right now. I think Magnum heads are the way to go in the future if I am buying heads. I have a friend coming out this week to look at my heads and chit chat. He is in the planning stages of doing a 273 for his purty '68 Cuda coupe. It's going to be an MPG build.

One thing that looks bad on the Magnums is a hump where the injector sprays against. OK for a carb, (I guess!)

I bet a crank scraper, and lightening the rotatin assembly would help also.



BTW my buddy has a truck with factory Magnum. He swapped the O2 sensors front to rear on it. Had enough slack in the wire to put the wires to the proper sensors. He picked up 2 1/2MPG with that simple experiment!

Mike I see you are near I-40. I may be traveling this week. I will know in a day or 2 if I have the time. I want to visit my dad in Oklahoma.

[pcrmike]

I am actually about 60 miles from I-40.

[namvet67a1f]

Originally Posted by Rug_Trucker

I wonder if they make a screen spacer for the Qjet-TQ?

That screen ? ...will just restrict the air flow. Those are no better than the Tornado or the magnets in the fuel line !!

[Rug_Trucker]

Originally Posted by namvet67a1f

That screen ? ...will just restrict the air flow. Those are no better than the Tornado or the magnets in the fuel line !!

I only have to turn 4400rpm. I heard Jegs sells screen intake gaskets.

[MOPEkid]

Originally Posted by namvet67a1f

That screen ? ...will just restrict the air flow. Those are no better than the Tornado or the magnets in the fuel line !!

Did you read pcrmike's posts? Apparently it does a bit more than restrict airflow.

[bobr]

Originally Posted by MOPEkid

Did you read pcrmike's posts? Apparently it does a bit more than restrict airflow.

Yep, it also restricts horsepower. I've seen and built a fair number of hot engines and don't remember seeing any screen anywhere but over the oil return holes. If you are building a motor strictly for fuel mileage maximization maybe there is a place for it. -Bob

[MOPEkid]

I wouldn't care too much about it though. If I did need to get the max airflow possible I could just take the screen off and have a specified set of jets to swap in before I went to the strip. I don't even want to make a street/strip car anyway though, and for me the added efficiency would be well worth the drop in airflow.

[Rug_Trucker]

BTW an electric fan is another idea. Go suck up to the Volvo mechanics in your area. Volvo is replacing entire fan units and only the relay is bad. Huge fans with schroud. I am getting one from a friend who used to work at Volvo. They aren't doing it like they were so hurry!

he just drops a cheapo relay in.

[pcrmike]

That is why you don't run teh screen across the base of the carb. It would restrict. You bowl shape it on an open plenum manifold and it does not restrict flow at all. I know, we have used it on an 8K RPM Ford. Set straight, it wouldn't efffectively rev past 6. :-)PCRMike

[pcrmike]

Oh, also, the tornado is a joke, and the swirly plates do well at small throttle openings. This works across the board. :-)PCRMike