Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide!



Go Back   Moparchat - Home of MOPAR enthusiasts worldwide! > Technical Forums > Performance Talk

Click here to search for Mopar cars and parts for sale.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-04-2007, 10:35 PM
dusterbd's Avatar
dusterbd dusterbd is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: ablemarle, nc
Age: 42
Posts: 938
Default steering box and tubular uca questions

ok, so the duster wasn't aligned. the alignment guy actually refused to do it due to a slightly bent upper control arm and a severely worn out steering box. the really sad thing is, i didnt notice either in the restoration. i honestly thoght that a mopar PS box was supposed to feel like that.
so i am going to replace these parts with aftermarket pieces designed for greater driving enjoyment.
i am looking at street oriented tubular upper control arms. that means bushings, factory ball joinys, and no cutting necessary. at last count, i saw like 4 different manufacturers making this style. whise should i use, and why? what benifit will i see from these particualr arms, and will they do anything funky to the front end geometry on a 73-up a body front end?

also, there are two companies that i am aware of making PS boxes in a performance design, steer and gear and FFI. what is your experience with these companies, and what feel would you reccomend. i am looking for a steering feel much like that of a C5 corvette. heavy, but not qite manual, with almost no dead spot on center. are there other manufacturers i should look at as well? i dont want to go rack and pinion due to the build style of the car.

so please, offer experience and advice.
thanks
Michael
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-04-2007, 10:57 PM
cageman's Avatar
cageman cageman is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Bismarck ND
Age: 46
Posts: 5,544
Default

Good luck on the steering, if you want that , put a c5 rack in.
I made tube uppers for my valiant, no big deal, I made them with rod ends, as I thought the f body spindles might need some adj, but I set them up to stock length, just how they came off the jig I made of the orig uppers, and the cam adjuster was all I needed to get it aligned right, so hindsight I should have just used bushings, as rod ends wear out faster, oh well. better to be prepared.
I think your align ment guy was on crack. How bad could your upper have been, and same with your steering box, was it running when he said it was shot? I think when it isnt running, they have a little slop in them, I have only two cars with power steering, and they are my race cars, the thing is very repsonsive when running, but when the engine isnt running, I can move the wheel a little bit with no movement of the wheels, every thing was new but the box, so who knows. I just assumed that is how it is.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-07-2007, 04:46 PM
dwc43's Avatar
dwc43 dwc43 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Shelbyville,Tn.
Age: 54
Posts: 23,987
Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusterbd View Post
ok, so the duster wasn't aligned. the alignment guy actually refused to do it due to a slightly bent upper control arm and a severely worn out steering box. the really sad thing is, i didnt notice either in the restoration. i honestly thoght that a mopar PS box was supposed to feel like that.
so i am going to replace these parts with aftermarket pieces designed for greater driving enjoyment.
i am looking at street oriented tubular upper control arms. that means bushings, factory ball joinys, and no cutting necessary. at last count, i saw like 4 different manufacturers making this style. whise should i use, and why? what benifit will i see from these particualr arms, and will they do anything funky to the front end geometry on a 73-up a body front end?

also, there are two companies that i am aware of making PS boxes in a performance design, steer and gear and FFI. what is your experience with these companies, and what feel would you reccomend. i am looking for a steering feel much like that of a C5 corvette. heavy, but not qite manual, with almost no dead spot on center. are there other manufacturers i should look at as well? i dont want to go rack and pinion due to the build style of the car.

so please, offer experience and advice.
thanks
Michael
To answer your questions, you can get the steering box you want from Firm Feel. www.firmfeel.com That's the one we use and seems to be the best at building a box the way you want it.

As for control arms, they do not effect any geometry as long as they are the same length and the ball joints are not set at some angle that's off from the factory. They are however lighter than most stock A arms. With less unsprung weight handling will increase. That's about the only gain you will see with them and it will very little. If you could do more things to reduce unsprung weight, like use lighter tires, aluminum wheels and tube lowers and lighter brakes and rotors that would make more of a difference in handling over all.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-07-2007, 10:24 PM
dusterbd's Avatar
dusterbd dusterbd is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: ablemarle, nc
Age: 42
Posts: 938
Default

i have read that some of the uppers actually have a little more caster designed into them, and heard something else about some of them improving the factory geometry. mostly, i am looking for a little beter caster setup, as well as strong and light.

as far as the box, everyone has suggested a firm feel box, so that is who i will go with.

now its just hurry up and wait till after christmas to order the thing to get the duster back together.

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-09-2007, 09:54 PM
dkn1997's Avatar
dkn1997 dkn1997 is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Coram, NY
Age: 54
Posts: 1,057
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusterbd View Post
i have read that some of the uppers actually have a little more caster designed into them, and heard something else about some of them improving the factory geometry. mostly, i am looking for a little beter caster setup, as well as strong and light.

as far as the box, everyone has suggested a firm feel box, so that is who i will go with.

now its just hurry up and wait till after christmas to order the thing to get the duster back together.

Michael
I think it will depend on what kind of driving you plan on doing with this thing. you can get more caster with moog problem solver bushings and still use stock uppers. Tubulars will not flex as much, improving handling. you could accomplish this with stock arms with reinforcement plates welded in...but you would be increasing weight going this route.

For a street car, use your stock uppers and purchase the bushings if your alignment shop cannot get enough caster into it. My guy was able to get about 1 or 2 degrees on mine (stock uppers). that made all the difference in the world. I have since swapped in a firm feel stage 2 box and the car drives very well.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-09-2007, 10:09 PM
rumblefish360's Avatar
rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
Moparchat Bronze member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: C
Age: 57
Posts: 11,120
Default

Crazy as it sounds, I picked up a good rebuilt box from Auto Zone with lifetime warranty for under 2 bills for my '79 Dodge Magnum.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-10-2007, 02:49 PM
dwc43's Avatar
dwc43 dwc43 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Shelbyville,Tn.
Age: 54
Posts: 23,987
Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusterbd View Post
i have read that some of the uppers actually have a little more caster designed into them, and heard something else about some of them improving the factory geometry. mostly, i am looking for a little beter caster setup, as well as strong and light.

as far as the box, everyone has suggested a firm feel box, so that is who i will go with.

now its just hurry up and wait till after christmas to order the thing to get the duster back together.

Michael
Only way to add more caster would be to offset the ball joint with the way that the tubes are positioned. I doubt you will find anything like that. Most are built straight up except for racing pieces.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-10-2007, 09:03 PM
dusterbd's Avatar
dusterbd dusterbd is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: ablemarle, nc
Age: 42
Posts: 938
Default

i am really debating the UCA. the ones on the car are not bent enough to make them a safety hazard, and we should be able to tweak enugh caster with the adjustable strut rods that are on the car (assuming no tire/fender interference). that, and 300 plus for parts that are cool, but not really that great a step up just seems rediculous. if it was a drastic change for the better, i might be able to justify it.

any experience with the level 3 FFI box? im looking for pretty heavy, but not quite a fast ratio manual box.

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-11-2007, 01:06 AM
bbeckwith's Avatar
bbeckwith bbeckwith is offline
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dunedin, Florida
Posts: 1,491
Default

dusterbd, I bought the magnum force adjustable uppers and only left them on the car for about a month. I pulled them off because you could feel every last pebble in the road with them on. Actually, I had a manual box rebuilt by Steer and Gear, and with the new uppers on it was quite responsive, but I worried that the aluminum spacers and the spherical rod ends on the uppers would wear down prematurely (or at least sooner than I wanted to be messing with the front end again,) so I put the stockers on with new polyurethane bushings and am quite happy now with the front end. Even after having the box rebuilt, there is a small spot of play with the steering, but only about an inch of play in the wheel when driving, and I could prolly tighten that up with the worm gear adjustment. oh and one other thing, with the magnum pieces, they require you saw off the bumpstops for the uppers, and move them about an inch or so.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-12-2007, 02:14 PM
dwc43's Avatar
dwc43 dwc43 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Shelbyville,Tn.
Age: 54
Posts: 23,987
Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusterbd View Post
i am really debating the UCA. the ones on the car are not bent enough to make them a safety hazard, and we should be able to tweak enugh caster with the adjustable strut rods that are on the car (assuming no tire/fender interference). that, and 300 plus for parts that are cool, but not really that great a step up just seems rediculous. if it was a drastic change for the better, i might be able to justify it.

any experience with the level 3 FFI box? im looking for pretty heavy, but not quite a fast ratio manual box.

Michael
I like that box you mentioned. And if youre going to use it on teh street and get some tube A arms make sure they have solid greasable bushings or poly's. Check out www.stockcarproducts.com You can get a set of customs made for less than $50 ea. You can also switch over to a chebby type mount that's a lot easier to adjust and they use screw in ball joints which make repairs a lot faster and easier too.

http://stockcarproducts.com/susp10.htm
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-12-2007, 02:18 PM
dwc43's Avatar
dwc43 dwc43 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Shelbyville,Tn.
Age: 54
Posts: 23,987
Biggrin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbeckwith View Post
dusterbd, I bought the magnum force adjustable uppers and only left them on the car for about a month. I pulled them off because you could feel every last pebble in the road with them on. Actually, I worried that the aluminum spacers and the spherical rod ends on the uppers would wear down prematurely (or at least sooner than I wanted to be messing with the front end again,) so I put the stockers on with new polyurethane bushings and am quite happy now with the front end. .
Your right. Heim joints wear out a lot faster than any other joint or bushing. You have to look for Poly or solid greasable joints for street use. I even use the solid joints for race cars. More accurate and greasable so they don't wear much. I use these TH90FA Aluminum Shaft $59.00 on my F body. The 6" spacing is a direct bolt on for the F body cars. Have to use the chebby mount on others.

http://stockcarproducts.com/susp10.htm
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Steering questions... D411-Lightning Circle Track Chat 31 03-04-2008 12:59 AM
Steering column and box colors and questions dusterbd Restoring your MoPar (Tricks & techniques) 5 10-22-2006 08:30 PM
Steering / Steering box questions jk_allen Ram Truck Chat 3 08-15-2001 02:17 PM
2 questions... steering stabilizer and IAT<sp> relocation MrAnderson Ram Truck Chat 3 06-30-2001 06:30 PM
1994 Ram questions - Sloppy steering prostock Ram Truck Chat 9 04-25-2001 01:14 PM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
. . . . .