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  #1  
Old 06-28-2003, 11:19 PM
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thewrongguy thewrongguy is offline
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Default demon jr carbs?

Anyone running a demon Jr carb on a mild engine (250-275hp). Is it worth the cash? I have a friend who swears by his full demon, but I don't know how much better it is then my run of the mill holley vacum advance.

Thanks again

Jeff
  #2  
Old 06-29-2003, 12:39 AM
Billydelrio Billydelrio is offline
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I worked with a friend on one of them darn Road Demon Jr. things all day today. The guy put the RD jr. on a 360 engine that has 226* at .050 and an original torker 340 single plane intake. The RD jr. is calibrated out of the box for a smaller cam and dual plane intake, so we had some work to do. It was way rich at cruise and Mega Lean at WOT with no secondaries. Had to open the power valve channel restrictions to .089" and drop the primary jet to Holley #65 to get the cruise lean enough and the power rich enough. The secondary jet (metering plate) was also upped several sizes before we called it a day. Still needs more secondary jet. We had quite a dick-dance with the secondary metering plate. (4160 type)

Here is what I saw on this, my first, dealing with a Demon carb.
Beautiful carb on the outside, but BG needs to kick all his machinist in their butts because:
1. Both threaded jet holes in the primary metering block had burrs. Hell, almost every hole had a burr.
2. Secondary metering plates are not interchangeable with Holley metering plates without a small modification. Alignment dowel holes are not in the Demon main body, so the dowel pins must be removed from the Holley secondary metering plates.
3. The stamped steel separator plate in this RD jr. had been stamped wrong and then modified by elongating most of the holes to make it fit. (From BG that way). We replaced the BG plate with a good Holley plate.

We should be able to dial the carb in with a little more time, but the owner of the carb is not to happy with BG at this time.

Billy
  #3  
Old 06-29-2003, 03:15 AM
bwlizard bwlizard is offline
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Lightbulb

You should send that reply to Cuda 273???. He swears by those Demons !
  #4  
Old 06-29-2003, 10:54 AM
skankweirdall skankweirdall is offline
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But Billy, you've already admitted it wasn't really the right carb for the application.

I've got a Demon and have been very happy with it. Of course I've modified the hell out of it but that's just my thing, the basic carb was good.
  #5  
Old 06-29-2003, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by skankweirdall
But Billy, you've already admitted it wasn't really the right carb for the application.

I've got a Demon and have been very happy with it. Of course I've modified the hell out of it but that's just my thing, the basic carb was good.
I agree with skankweirdall. I had a Speed Demon in my 413 and will have a Mighty Demon in my 440. The Speed Demon really woke up my 413 engine and I am eagerly awaiting installing my 440.

A neighbor installed the Road Demon Jr in his stock motor 64 Nova (sorry, I know, it's a Chevy - but the guy is really cool ). The tune was pretty straightforward, all we needed was my vacuum gauge - we got it dialed in pretty quick.
  #6  
Old 06-29-2003, 11:13 AM
b-1ken b-1ken is offline
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A bad Demon? Say it ain't so!
  #7  
Old 06-29-2003, 02:58 PM
Billydelrio Billydelrio is offline
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I know it was the wrong application, that is why I said that we had some work to do in tunig. My negative comments were about the craftsmanship (or lack of) on the Road Demon Jr. All the other Demon carburetors are not of the 4160 type and don't have the secondary metering plate issues that this RD jr has.

Using the O2 sensor on the highway is how we dialed the cruise mixture. Using the stopwatch is how we dialed in the power mixture. The vacuum gauge was used to help determine which power valve to use and to help adjust idle mixture.

My big complaint is with the poor craftsmanship in the secondary metering plate and separator plate. I think Tom could eventually get the thing running real good, but he has decided to go back to his 20 year old genuine Carter. He will send the Road Demon Jr. to anyone for $200 + shipping

Modifications done to this unit:
1. PVCR opened from .059" to .089"
2. Primary jets changed from #70 to #65
3. Power valve changed from 6.5" to 9.5" Hg
4. Holley secondary metering plate installed with .038" air bleeds and .093" main restrictions. He will put the original .038", .083" plate back in.
5. Bolt on Custom Chrysler throttle arm with cruise control lever is included.

If you want to talk to Tom about this deal, contact him at gimp@delrio.com or 830-774-4304

Billy
  #8  
Old 07-02-2003, 02:36 AM
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cuda66273 cuda66273 is offline
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Comment deleted as not to lower myself to the level of some here....

Every part has a quality per dollar point. The Road Demon Jr. is a good price point carb and is every bit as good or better than any competitive product.

The main point is that it's the wrong carb for the application.

For a $100 more he could have saved allot of work and parts and had a bolt on unit that could have been tuned in 10 minutes and performed flawlessy.

To address the question.....

It sounds to me like he probably would be better off with a Road Demon 525, but without all the specs it's difficult to answer this question.

If you'd like to email me direct I would be happy to select the right carb for your application.
  #9  
Old 07-02-2003, 02:51 AM
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Biggrin

Quote:
Originally posted by cuda66273
Comment deleted as not to lower myself to the level of some here....

But you were thinking like us LOW people !
  #10  
Old 07-02-2003, 07:10 PM
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I think it is more than just the wrong application for the carb. Every single person I know who has purchased a Demon or Claw carb has regretted the purchase. They have reported many QC problems with the carb and drivability problems. On several occasions, the car magazines that have tested the Demon carbs must make 8 - 10 step jet changes in the baseline jetting to obtain some semblance of performance. And this is from editors, who since the mass acquisitions by Primedia, have not found any problem with any product tested from any manufacturer. Now I know that the five people known to me with a BG manufactured carb are not necessarily a representative sample, but it's hard to overlook.

Personally, I have never been required to make 8 - 10 jet changes on any Holley to get it dialed in properly. Now I'm sure there will be Demon carb experts, who have the inside scoop and know the BG engineers home phone number, will say that this only means I have not dialed in a Holley carb to their standard of perfection. But, I really don't believe the hype that the Demon carbs will produce far better performance than a Holley, with fuel economy and throttle response on par with FI, at a much lower price.
  #11  
Old 07-02-2003, 07:59 PM
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65BELVEDEUCE 65BELVEDEUCE is offline
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been lookin at the posts and just had to throw in my 2 cents.

holley and bg both make a good product. i sell and have used both. i like the demons, they work very well and bg's quality control is good also....but you DO need to be in the ball park of the correct part for application.

lost count on how many of those things we have sold , and have only had a coupla LEGITIMATE warranty issues, and bg has always given prompt service.

as far as the tuning goes, its been my experience that they DO take a little more effort in tuning than a holley, but that is due primarily to the fact that bg builds their carbs on the lean side, so it is a little more finiky(responsive?) than the holley is to small changes.....the holleys are on built on the rich side.

still here some of the same complaints though, about having to always be adjusting them"JUST LIKE A HOLLEY!"

if people would just get them tuned to the car and then leave them alone, instead of always trying to make them better, everything would be fine.

the only people who have to constantly tune a holley, are the people who ARE constantly tuning a holley.
  #12  
Old 07-02-2003, 09:27 PM
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I know that if you buy a Demon from www.4secondsflat.com and give them the specifics of your cam and engine, they will dial in the cam to be pretty darn close to what the engine wants. Then you just fine tune it, once it's installed. Don will even give you free tech support to help you get it fine tuned.
  #13  
Old 07-02-2003, 09:32 PM
Billydelrio Billydelrio is offline
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Cuda66273, I agree that the Road Demon would have been the better carb for Tom's application. When I made my first reply to Thewrongguy's thread, I pointed out the fact that Tom had chosen a carb not factory calibrated for his longer cam, single plane intake manifold, and other modifications. Tuning was not the issuse for us. We expected to spend some time on tuning, just as we do on other carburetors.

I wanted to let people know about the secondary metering plate issue on the RD Jr. We were not happy campers when we saw the shape of the separator plate. We were even less happy when we found out that the stack of Holley secondary metering plates we had would not fit the RD jr without modifications. The burrs in the primary block raised a few eyebrows also.

I was not saying "don't buy a Demon, get a Carter." Tom just decided to go back to his old Carter that has been so good to him.

Don, keep that 318 running strong.

Billy
  #14  
Old 07-03-2003, 12:54 AM
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I started out with a long rambling post but I decided it just isn't worth it.

Get the RIGHT carb for the application, forget everyrthing you have ever heard about CFM requirements and call someone who knows the product and quit trying to second guess the manufacturer or the people who do this everyday.

Quote:
"Now I know that the five people known to me with a BG manufactured carb are not necessarily a representative sample, but it's hard to overlook. "

No it's not, they're obviously buying from someone who knows nothing about tuning or how to size or select the correct carb for the application.

Give me the spec's on those 5 cars and I'll guarrantee that everyone of them has the wrong carb for the car.

Lemme guess....they bought them from a mail order house.
  #15  
Old 07-03-2003, 02:32 AM
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I guess thats why Summit sells so much, they must be terrible after all they are mail order. It's amazing that I got a EB carb that worked right out of the box ! It can't be any good because I didn't order it from CUDA12456327 !
  #16  
Old 07-03-2003, 02:35 AM
bwlizard bwlizard is offline
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Angry

Quote:
Originally posted by Billydelrio
Don, keep that 318 running strong.

Billy
Kiss some a**
  #17  
Old 07-03-2003, 09:41 AM
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Blwizard, your mama didn't hug you much, did she?

Since everyone is entitled to your opinion, you can have mine as well. Your EB carb may have worked well right out of the box, but the difference between crisply tuned and working well is quite subtantial, and if you order from mail houses, you better know what you want and how to modify it to work after you get it. Don provides a service of jetting the Demon properly for your application before shipping you the carb, and of selecting the proper carb for your app., for no extra charge because he knows word of mouth is worth more than any advertising or big catalogue sent out every month. So just keep running that EB and never find the potential of your engine. You don't deserver good service.

I await the simplistic and moronic reply.
  #18  
Old 07-03-2003, 09:46 AM
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How do you make one of those polls to have lizardbreath ejected from this board?
  #19  
Old 07-03-2003, 09:56 AM
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Isn't it amazing how people like Blwizard find the anonimity of the internet the perfect place to spout their vile hatred and stupidity? I bet in person he wouldn't have so much crap to say. I bet he's one of those guys who mouths off in traffic, only to cower under the dashboard when he see how big I am when I get out of the car!
  #20  
Old 07-03-2003, 10:00 AM
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I read someplace on this or the other Mopar board about that problem. They get carried away with the power of the keyboard. They think if they can't be seen, they can get away with anything.
  #21  
Old 07-03-2003, 10:05 AM
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Makes you wish it was like high school again where differences of opinion and acts of stupidity were swiftly settled.
  #22  
Old 07-03-2003, 10:16 AM
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I just read his last post. It was in the 904 go south tranny topic. Another idiot reply. All he had to do was read and understand dwc's post and that was simple. I would guess lizard's worst problem is comprehention of what he reads! Cause then he doesn't know how to respond, so he just spouts off with
  #23  
Old 07-03-2003, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bwlizard

Kiss some a**
Any more of your worthless comments and your AZZ is gonna be kicked out of the site...and all posts removed.

Hey guys...Has bwlizard contributed anything worthwhile ever? Maybe we should do a poll and see if the voting goes to kicking him out? Of course the poll WILL, but it might be good entertainment value as well..
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  #24  
Old 07-03-2003, 10:23 AM
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I'm in, let's do it.
  #25  
Old 07-03-2003, 10:27 AM
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He acually made a couple good helping remarks early this past week. But that doesn't make up for the crap he spews all the rest of the time. Lets do a poll and see what we get out of all the rest of the members!
You know he'll get on.!
  #26  
Old 07-03-2003, 10:55 AM
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blizrd Im willing to bet if you Bought a Demon fron Cuda123456327 to replace that junk Eddelbrock youd pick up big time power.
  #27  
Old 07-03-2003, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bwlizard
I guess thats why Summit sells so much, they must be terrible after all they are mail order. It's amazing that I got a EB carb that worked right out of the box ! It can't be any good because I didn't order it from CUDA12456327 !
Let's see here, how many options does EB have for the one size carb??? I think that it is probably 1. Now if we look at the Demon carbs, how many options do we have for the one size? I think that it is probably about 4 or 5. Now unless you know which is the best one for you application, odds are, you're going to get the wrong one.

That EB will work with a wide spectrum of engines/cams, however, if you really want it to perform you will need to do a whole lot of tuning and even then, it won't perform as well as the correct Demon that has been fine tuned to your specific combo.
  #28  
Old 07-04-2003, 01:56 AM
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Biggrin

Quote:
Originally posted by ajmopar


Makes you wish it was like high school again where differences of opinion and acts of stupidity were swiftly settled.
Yeah sometimes this board is like high school. I bet you were the Bully, right ? You settled your differences swiftly ! Are tou still 16 years old ? Is that how you want to do it as an adult ? I am sure your big when you get out of your car ! And I guess because I post on the internet that I am afraid of you and am hiding behind something ! And since I don't like Demon carbs and I don't like the way some people use this board to sell their products, I am obviously wrong ! Afterall if I don't agree with everything Don and Ed say then I must be wrong. I guess just like high school I am not in the right clique.
So since you question my manhood I will call on yours. You want to meet with me ? That can be arrainged ! Just email me and we can work it out. Now this is really getting like high school.
As for the admin that wants to get entertainment over kicking someone off a chat site I feel really sorry for you ! Maybe this board is for people that agree on everything and maybe it's for a few that want to make a profit. Whatever if you want to kick me out go ahead because I can always get back in ! I'm just not sure I'd want to. Keep on KISSIN !
  #29  
Old 07-04-2003, 10:47 AM
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I have no problem with differing opinions, if the opinions seem to be based on some fact and knowledge of the topic. Bolting on an edelbrock carb does not make you an expert on all carbs and their function. The manner in which you express your opinion leaves very much to be desired, and is in fact juvenile.

As for your flame on me as a person, I was not a bully in high school, just stepped up when I needed to. I am sorry however to have stooped to your level in my post by questioning your "manhood" or however you want to put it. Telling someone to keep kissing a$$ however makes me question the level of your maturity and taints any argument you make as a infantile response. Again, I am sorry my disbelief with your immaturity caused me to slip back to your level.

Tell me why you hate demons, why you question someone with as much experience as Don, who by the ETs of his 318 powered Cuda knows what he talks of, and what your experience is with carburetion that leads you to the conclusion that a stock replacement carb will perform better than a custom calibrated unit. Make your argument clear, concise and logical and back it up with proof. This is how you debate. Keep on kissing a$$ is not an acceptable response.

BTW, I am a long time proponent of the Carter AFB carb, but being a 40 year old design and with edelbrock's problems with it, I can see where an improvement could easily be made. I am in fact running a pair of 500 AFB's on my 400, and I am happy with them. I would not say that I couldn't make an improvement in performance by running a single Demon on a modern dual plane.

I will not accept your challenge of physical confrontation, instead I choose to keep it on an intellectual plane.
  #30  
Old 07-04-2003, 08:32 PM
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ajmopar- very well said

bwlizard- It has nothing to do with you having a differing opinion. It has to do with the way that you choose to present your opinion. In the process of presenting your opinion, you choose to belittle other members and then don't back up your statements with any defenitive information.

If you could keep from belittleing others and post solid information, then we wouldn't have such a problem with you. I honestly thought that you had these issues resolved, last week. I guess not.

I know that you must have some wothwhile information, so please feel free to present it in a manner that does not belittle others.
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