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  #1  
Old 10-19-2006, 07:09 PM
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Ray Bell Ray Bell is offline
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Default Clutches... who knows their stuff?

The aluminum flywheel has arrived for Ben's project car... that's a 1964 Dodge 440 being prepared for road racing. 318 Poly V8, we expect to see about 450hp with it bored to about 4", no stroking is allowed.

Question is, what is the go with clutches to handle this kind of power?

Ben is keen to avoid a twin plate (they drag too much, he thinks), so it's up to a more or less standard type of pressure plate and then a clutch plate that will handle the power while being useable on the street as well.

Our clutch expert tells us that this:



...will do a good job. He's got to find out if it comes in 10.5, but he assures us that even a 10" will cope with that horsepower, and that the cush behind the plate on a standard clutch disc will give good smooth takeup for road use.

What experience does this grand forum have to offer?
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2006, 07:25 PM
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I used a CenterForce dual friction with excellent success. The MP (or Hayes) was also very good. Butr pedal effort for the streer was a bit much in rush hour.
My 360 at the time exceeded the HP level.
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Old 10-19-2006, 07:38 PM
mhenesian mhenesian is offline
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I've had good luck with McLeod Alum/Kevlar 23-spline/1" diam. pilot clutch for the 10-7/8" scalloped B&B pressure plate used with the 10.5" flywheel. The Kevlar pads are on the flywheel side and have very good grip. The more conventional aluminum/composition pads are on the pressure plate side. The low profile centers are sprung with high quality Race style "encapsulated" springs. P/N 260821 $166 from Summit. The Hemi style clutch with 18-spline/1 3/16" pilot is PN 260851 (same price).

The Kevlar might be too abrasive for the aluminum flywheel. I notice that my 10.5" steel flywheel is showing some "grooving" (it was re-ground before the Kevlar clutch change), and matching wear on the Kevlar pads. But then I race the 440-8 pack 4-spd Roadrunner at least twice a month, and show the clutch no mercy at the track,

Mark H.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
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Old 10-19-2006, 07:54 PM
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The flywheel has a steel insert for its friction area...



rumbler... this was a twin plate you had? Or a single?
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:20 PM
mhenesian mhenesian is offline
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Thanks Ray, nice flywheel !

I may switch to the Centerforce dual friction myself (like Rumblefish) since the old style Borg & Beck cover (3-roller from McLeod) and "grabby" clutch is a royal pain driving on the street (and to the track). The 3000+ lbs is too much for the 56 yr. old left knee ! When your're going to shift frequently (like road racing), I'd consider the dual disk setups and diagraphm covers - although I don't have any experience with them. McLeod's dual disk road race setups are very pricey, although I like McLeod quality,

Mark H.
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:33 PM
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Yeah, nice flywheel... Ben isn't skimping on bits where an extra dollar gets performance rewards. The brand is RAM.
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Old 10-20-2006, 09:33 AM
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Ray, The Centerforce dual friction is a single plate system. It also makes use of a diafram not the 3 B&B fingers. You may need to add a overcenter spring (I think they called it.)
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Old 10-20-2006, 09:38 AM
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From a Goggle search;
Quote:
Results 131 - 140 of about 1,920,000 for Schumacher Engineering. (0.11 seconds
A little help please........
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2006, 10:50 AM
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Default Clutches

I use a McLeod [ now owned by B&M] 10.95 [fits 10.5 bolt pattern] diaphram in my Cuda. It has a quick and secure lockup. I use the car mostly on the street but it also sees occasional autocross events. The tires are Kuhmo 245x45x17. I have also used Hoosier Quick Time Pros at the strip and the clutch held. A diaphram clutch will work with the factory overcenter spring if you install a positive stop on the clutch pedal. The stop prevents overcentering the diaphram spring [the typical cause of clutch hangup] and results in a light pedal effort similar to a modern car's hydraulic clutch.
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  #10  
Old 10-20-2006, 07:16 PM
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10.95 certainly has the potential for better torque-carrying capacity than 10.5...

Might check them out. Though I think we do have a certain tendency to want to please our local retailer. He might well be a lot of help in the future.
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Old 10-20-2006, 11:25 PM
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hello, mcleod makes a B&B/long pressure plate. it is far better over a B&B plate. the pressure is less, it has provision for adding c/w to fingers for lock up. pedal pressure is way less, these clutched release cleanly. the ultimute would be mcloed's soft loc, call macleod and talk to george , he is the clutch man. it's a worthwhile call. you only want to do this one time, not be changing clutches a lot. just food for thought.
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2006, 11:56 PM
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Exclamation Add? No, Remove!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumblefish360
Ray, The Centerforce dual friction is a single plate system. It also makes use of a diafram not the 3 B&B fingers. You may need to add a overcenter spring (I think they called it.)
Add? No, Remove! The over-center spring is that heavy spring that thats located up top on your clutch pedal. Its purpose is to allow "easy clutch pedal operation" (with the original equipment borg and beck type clutch). It isn't easy to remove either. I dont know about adding a positive stop with the over-center spring in place. A diaphram clutch should have much lighter pedal pressure even with the over-center spring removed. Besides, both Centerforce and McLeod have recommended to remove the over-center spring when installing a diaphram clutch when I asked what they recommend.

Oh, and the Sof-Lock is a sintered steel clutch. The hotter it is the harder it grabs. Its charactoristics change depending on its temperature. It becomes like an on off switch. recomended for up to 1000hp. I would check with McLeod if this is your best choice. They will recommend a suitable combo for your needs. They recomended a 143 toothed flywheel with a 12 in diaphram and 11in street perf clutch for me. (over the "Street Twin" which I thought would be the best) they also recommended the removal of the over-center spring.

I think its a good idea to feel out the chat room, but ultimately, you need to see first hand how a particular clutch works on a car set up similar to your own, and let the tech departments of a few brands make their own suggestions. I think good customer service goes a long way too.
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2006, 12:32 PM
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Thank you, I sit corrected. I need to find the instructions.
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2006, 05:15 PM
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I like the CEnterforce. I have well over 450 hp it worked well. I have a Hayes in there now. POS! fried it the second holeshot, it disengages way down on the pedal, I could not power shift it at all.

I called Mcleod, George is not there anymore.
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  #15  
Old 10-23-2006, 02:31 PM
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Ray Bell, where did you get the flywheel, how much before shipping? And is the magazine "Hey Charger" still going?
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  #16  
Old 10-23-2006, 04:15 PM
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Ben bought that, so I'm not sure. Summit, I think. Fact is he got two of them... the first one was sent to my son's place in Indiana and we didn't know for several months that it hadn't arrived (sometimes the lad's not very communicative!), so Ben lodged an insurance claim and had it replaced.

The name on the box is RAM Clutches, but who's to say if that's the maker or not? I'll get Ben to post here later about it.

Hey Charger... no idea... again, Ben is the expert on those things.

In the meantime, it looks like Ben has bought this one on eBay. Anyone know much about these?
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  #17  
Old 10-24-2006, 11:20 PM
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have not seen hey charger magazine for quite some time. probably more than 8-9 years ago. we have had a few other mags come and go too. none seem to last any more than about 5 issues as a rule.

the flywheel is ram clutches part #2503, for some reason it is now listed as an 11", the same part# used to come up as 10.5" which is what i bought mine as.

check here
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:53 AM
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thanks for the part number!
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  #19  
Old 10-26-2006, 06:02 PM
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Maybe of little importance to most, but if you look at the pictures again:





...you'll see that the clutch facing sitting on it is actually just covering the steel surface provided for the clutch.

At this time there is no 10.5" facing of that type (apparently they're something very new), so this is an 11" facing. The flywheel Benno has does have the 11" provision.

Perhaps this is a bonus relating to that 'second purchase' I mentioned?
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  #20  
Old 10-28-2006, 03:45 AM
mhenesian mhenesian is offline
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Default Won't work

Hi Ray,

Be careful,

I don't think that 11" facing put on a clutch will work with the 10.5" flywheel. I purchased an 11" Hays clutch for my 10.95" scalloped pressure plate with steel 10.5" flywheel and the clutch would not clear the pressure plate cover at the bolts - even though the flywheel surface was large enough. I had to send the Hays clutch back to Summit and get the special McLead clutch made for my combination. The McLeod clutch was ever so slightly smaller in diameter, something like 10 7/8" or maybe 10 15/16". I barely clears.

Mark H.
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  #21  
Old 10-28-2006, 10:10 AM
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You can rest assured, my friend, that no steps would be taken without careful checking of all aspects...

I'm a little careful about these things, Ben is super careful!
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