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#1
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high stall torque converter
I BOUGHT A '70 383HP IT HAD A 10 3/4" TORQUE CONVERTER ON IT.MY QUESTION IS; HOW CAN I BE SURE IF THIS IS A "FACTORY "HIGH STALL, I CAN'T FIND A STICKER ON IT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER MARKINGS TO IDENTIFY THE STALL?
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#2
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If it's the original factory converter it isn't a high stall. The factory high stall converters didn't arrive until the mid seventies.
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#3
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John is right. The stall that came with your set-up is probably a 1700 to 1900 max stall. I know because I just replaced one in my '68 727. I have a mildly modified 383 so I went with a 2400 stall like they put in the Hemi cars. That's probably about as high as you really want to go unless you plan on really modifying your 383. With the 2400 it shifts fairly hard, and I think more than that would be overkill. After I rebuild the engine, and extract some big ponies I'll go with a 3000 - 3500 stall depending.
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#4
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Surprisingly, in '70, the 318, the 340, the 383HP and the Hemi all used the same converter (the Hemi, of course, had larger threads in the drive lugs).
The 1000 rpm difference in the rated stall speed between them is due, solely, to the difference in power input. |
#5
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So just flash the convertor and see what you've got.....
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#6
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Quote:
how do you do that? |
#7
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Stall is very confusing, if stall is 3000 RPM and you are cruising at 2200 RPM with 323 gears, how much slippage and associated heat is generated? With a small block its nice to have the stall to get off the line but idling at 16 MPH on the freeway what is happening? Which is the best way to have your cake and eat it also?
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#8
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Paleese!!! enough BS, all converters are the same? not even,if so why do they have different part #s? and different diameters?why does a 6cyl police/taxi w/727 have a 10" converter? theyre not the same,thats something GM would do.To answer the original question your 1970 383hp would have a factory rated stall at 1900-2100,this is not the "high stall" unit chrysler sold,the hemi came with the only factory high stall rated at 2300, there has been talk for many years that the 440-6 could have come with the high stall but Ive never seen chrysler documentation or any cars that have..........PRO......
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#9
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Paleese!!! enough BS, all converters are the same?
Nobody said they were all the same, only that several motors use the identical same converter and that the stall speed is different with each motor. not even,if so why do they have different part #s? and different diameters? They don't always have different numbers, for example, in '70, the 318, 340 and 383HP all used the identical same 10 3/4" converter (P/N 2801764) yet there is 800 rpm difference in the factory rated stall speed with each individual engine. The Hemi used the exact same basic converter, but with larger thread drive lugs, so it got a different part number (2801766). why does a 6cyl police/taxi w/727 have a 10" converter? No production 727 or 904 ever used a 10" converter, 10 3/4" was the smallest and that same basic 10 3/4" shell was used on the slant six and the Hemi but there is 1400 rpm difference in stall speed. the hemi came with the only factory high stall rated at 2300 Wrong, the Hemi never came with a "high stall" converter, as I stated, it was the same basic converter as the 318; the higher stall speed (2650-2850) came from the higher power input. The "high stall" was solely the result of having a higher input. there has been talk for many years that the 440-6 could have come with the high stall but Ive never seen chrysler documentation or any cars that have The reason you never saw any literature attesting to it was because there is none. The 440-6 came with a plain old 11 3/4" converter, the only difference in the '70-'71 six pack converter was the addition of balance weights to compensate for the heavier rods/pistons. With the exception of balance weights, the six pack converter was identical to the 383-2 and 440-4. Accept this fact, there is only one "fact" regarding all torque converters, there is no set stall speed for any converter. The stall speed of any converter is determined by the power input and the resistance to movement. |
#10
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Everything John said is correct.
My 2 cents. |
#11
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Can you believe this? So here I am a nice neighborly mopar guy trying to be nice to my neighbor even if he is a chebbie lover,He tells me I gotta borrow your computer to email my Mom,so being the nice Mopar guy Iam I let him,I didnt close this site,meanwhile His wife draws me into the kitchen to talk more about cooking Greek food,we forget about LarryMac and suddenly He's gotta go,not even a thanks,apparently Hes dancing around here leaving funny responses,this is the 2nd one I found,His wife left me a voice message telling me what He did,funny guy,he hangs around the shop on the weekends learning what he can from the mope crowd but I think hes still sore since my truck whooped his camaro!!!A couple weeks ago were putting a new trans in a 72 340 duster and this goofball stops by talking about 10" converters in a 6 cyl taxi!!!!!!!!!!! what a memory,ok how to pay him back,any ideas? sorry Mr Kunkel if He ruffled some feathers,but dont you love him dissing his own brand? "sounds like something GM would do" at least he cant deny the truth!..................................PRO....... .......
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#12
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high stall
No, john thats not true, high stall converters did arrive before the mid seventies, the Hemi converters were 2800 stall converters.
YEs that is a factory high stall converter and you should stall at around 2200rpm. That was like an old car we used to own. |
#13
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Does he have an email address of his own???
I think we can fill it with good info him I could send a couple of 5 meg images and lock it up for a week or so.... |
#14
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Re: high stall
No, john thats not true, high stall converters did arrive before the mid seventies, the Hemi converters were 2800 stall converters.
Once again, there were no "high stall" converters behind Hemis, the converters achieved 2800 rpm stall because they had 425+ horsepower pumped into them. That very same converter behind a 2-barrel 318 would only achieve a stall speed of 1800 rpm. There is no such thing as a 2500 stall speed converter or a 3000 stall speed converter, etc. A given converter might stall at 2500 when coupled to one certain motor but it would stall lower if the power input weredecreased and it would stall higher if the power input were increased. Factory high stall converters were introduced in the mid seventies to compensate for the loss of power that came about because of emissions equipment. |
#15
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Well I don't know if you'd consider '73 mid 70's or not but my build sheet says "NT3 T/C underslung" if I remember right my stock 400 2bbl stalls around 2400 (it's been in storage all winter so I don't remember exactly what the stall is).
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#16
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John
john we had a 70 Roadrunner that was my dad's car. im not sure what the hp was, no more then a 14 sec car. And my dad would stall around 2800rpm. High stall or not?
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#17
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OK, here is the factory stall speed specification for all 727 converters, direct from the '70 service manual:
Engine Diameter Engine RPM 225 10.75* 1450-1650 318 10.75* 1750-1950 340-4 10.75* 2250-2450 383-2 11.75 1850-2150 383-4 10.75* 2350-2650 440-4 11.75 2000-2300 426 2X4 10.75 2650-2850 Notice there are only two size converters, there was no high or low stall. *The identical same part number converter is used on the 225, 318, 340, and the 383-4 but notice the difference in stall speed. The stall speed of the converter rises with the power input, it's that simple. |
#18
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hi think this is post i was looking for. but there is nothing
here. |
#19
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actually...its not just power output,
if you have a 3000 stall converter in a 3200 lbs dart with a warmed over 360 and 4.10 gears and put in 3.23 gears you will experience more stall because the car requires more torque to get moving. if you have a 3000 stall torque converter in a 440 in a 68 cuda and put that driveline in a 68 fury you will experience more stall again, because that 440 and associated driveline must work much harder to move that much weight. but, i don't think there is any way to calculate the rise or fall in stall speed before putting a combination together, i think you just wing it and see what you get. this is why it is more important to get a converter custom built for an application instead of an off the shelf deal. a b&m holeshot may stall at 2800 in a 350, but 3400 in a 440. |
#20
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Question then:
Why do they rate converters by stall speed then? Shouldn't they be rated as: "if your engine is 400 hp, this converter stalls at XXXX rpm"? |
#21
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Because they want to sell you a convertor and will basically tell you what you want to hear and most people don't have clue as to how to test the flash and efficiency of a convertor.
They just want your money..deal with Dynamic and get the right convertor for your application...buy it direct or buy it through us...I don't care but buy the right one and stay away from the mass merchandisers with the one size fits all fancy advertising... |
#22
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I agree with CUDA66273, I bought a Frank Lupo Dynamic custom converter for my Dart and gained almost 5 tenths in the 1/8th over my old 4500 stall GER converter. Nuff said!!
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#23
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actually...its not just power output, if you have a 3000 stall converter in a 3200 lbs dart with a warmed over 360 and 4.10 gears and put in 3.23 gears you will experience more stall because the car requires more torque to get moving.
True. You're talking about flash stall, but the numbers I posted and their relevance are based on brake stalls, car weight and other factors don't apply. Note what I said earlier, "The stall speed of any converter is determined by the power input and the resistance to movement". cuda66273 understands marketing, the use of stall speed to advertise converters is merely talking in a language that most customers understand. There's more to a camshaft than duration/lift but that's what the customer relates to. Notice how MP gives their converters numbers like 145K, 166K, etc, they realize the converter will stall differently in various installations so they use an inhouse formula and rating code to identify their converters. That's why it's important to take all of the factors, including the ones fastmopars mentions, into account when choosing a converter. You can't make the proper choice from numbers printed in a catalog. |
#24
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Everytime I talk about convertors on here I come across like and azzhole...but here it goes anyways.
Buy the right converotor for what you have. Dont go buying an aftermarket convertor unless "OK" is good enough. You can go through a variety of companies. I prefer BTE. They will take your old convertor and adjust it to what your car needs. Some convertors may have been so far off that this would work and creat such goofy fin angles you will lose all kinds of efficiency to achieve the correct stall. If its a street car and you dont care then it really wont matter. If you want to race and win money, well then your gonna have to spend some money. I dont know anyone winning big dollars racing with an off the shelf convertor. By off the shelf I mean flipping open a summit and ordering the convertor. It will not be close. I could take there convertor put it behind my motor and probably gain 1000 rpms on the stall. I have learned the hard way spend the money in the right places the first time will save alot of money in the future. |
#25
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I bought a mid to late 70's converter out of a 318 4X4 pickup truck. I swear it has a good high stall in it. The engine is a .030 KB #107 360 zero deck flat top engine with x heads. Factory iron early 360 4 barrel intake factory exhaust manifolds with a 3.23 suregrip. It flys for what it is. I bet it stalls close to 3000. I have a set of headers im going to put on it, but it will take more $ for the exhuast. I would reccomend this type converter to anyone, look for a higher stall.
__________________
68 Coronet 69 Super Bee......new 500 cid comin soon! 73 Duster witha missing 440/727 |
#26
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6 packin. I would be concerned that the convertor is junk if its stalling that high. Possibly losing a ton on the top end. But if your just beating around on the streets with it, wont matter much. Just put a good cooler on there or you will be putting in a new tranney too.
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#27
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Could the guys that know explain how to test flash stall and how to test brake stall. Please explain in laymens terms. Thanks in advance.
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#28
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Let me try....
Hard on the brake low gear stomp the peddle to the foor for a split second and watch your tach ...that is the flash of the convertor...generally on a foot brake launch it will stall slightly below that, if your using a studder box or transbrake that's about where it's going to lock To check efficiency do the MPH Vs. engine RPM calcs and see what % of slip your getting. A good convertor will slip no more than 3-5%....most of the off the shelf one size fits all stuff will have anywhere from 10-20%... |
#29
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cuda,
what about the Mopar econo converters? any experience with those? or are they just that, ECONO converters |
#30
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Econo...?????
I don't think so......why build a 100 extra horse power for $2000 and lose it all to a "Econo " convertor...sounds like a government project to me.... |
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