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Old 11-11-2001, 01:14 AM
chrisj0123 chrisj0123 is offline
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Angry turbocharger vs supercharger

well hell.... Iv'e read all I can find and then some.

which is better... I'm going to be putting it on a 360 in a 1977 Gran fury.... actually a nice car.

lots have told me that I should go with the supercharger. but I can't find anyone or anysite that will help me out with some of the deatails like price.

more have told me that I should go with the turbocharger and add in a nitrous kit to make up for the turbolag. I'm am really in need of some help..

TO put it simply I want to get from point A to point B in the least possible time and not have to rebuild it every month or so!!
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Old 11-11-2001, 12:23 PM
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well i dont know about nitrous oxide as a bandaid for turbo lag. nitrous is usually recomended to be activated around 3000rpm in which by that time a turbo should really be screamin'. to help turbo lag, insulate as much as possible, build the car for turbos (drive train & engine combo), and go big on the exhaust after the turbo.

btw: turbo lag isnt necessarily bad, just think of it as traction control. no sense in having all the power if your sitting there burning rubber.
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Old 11-11-2001, 01:31 PM
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rumblefish360 rumblefish360 is offline
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I think that a Super Charger is an easy bolt on where the turbo is a U fab thing. Turbo lag can be taken care of if your good. So I'm told.
http://blowerdriveservice.com/
For an under hood unit, there Vortec, Procharger and others. I do not recomend Paxton. Reason is when I call them up, it's like talking to a bakery about rockets. No clue!
Theres a few people here that know about turbos. It shouldn't take long for them to post and help out there.
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Old 11-11-2001, 03:35 PM
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i here that ATI procharger is one of the best centrifuguals out there. capable of much more boost than the motor could ever take. i think SCDE or SDCE or something is the company that retrofits them to mopar carb or magnum efi use. you can also order billet impeller for $250 more. and intercoolers and such.
id prolly say 600B is the way to go unless you wanna get really wicked.
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Old 11-11-2001, 05:18 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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supercharger.... starting about $2400 for a bare bones setup. going to about $5000 for a full setup with intercooler. Benefits.. more or less a bolt on setup. Call up, order what you want, spend some hours putting it on, and drive. If you can't fab, don't mind a little more power loss becuase of the belt drive losses, then it's probably the setup for you

Turbos.. full kit can be built for less then $500, buying a complete kit.. can go up to $5000. it's only $$$ beneficial if you are putting together your own kit from junkyard parts. it is not a bolt on deal. you are going to have to be able to put stuff together. and weld. if you can't weld, or don't know somebody who can weld. plain and simple give up on the turbocharger, and go supercharger.. or.. you can buy a welder, and learn. (not that hard to do, and you will come out with a free welder, and boost cheaper then a supercharger setup). Turbo chargers are more efficient then any supercharger. --- engines produce heat in 3 parts. one part goes to the crank, one part goes to the cooling system, and one part goes out the exhaust. only what goes to the crank will end up at the wheels. a supercharger draws from the crank, as does a blower. a turbocharger draws it's drive power from the one part that goes out the exhaust. in that sense, it's free horsepower. it's all really well broken down in Maximum boost by corky bell----

you have the room in the engine bay to put turbos. Both will put out more boost then your engine can handle.. (tractor pulls run turbos in series to come up with over 200psi of boost.)

it's more what you want, and what you can do. there might not be any junk yard turbos available to you. so you would be buying new ones. for a pair, you are going to put over $1000 into the turbos, before you do anything else. so that way, it might now save you much money at all. but then you can find turbos if you are lucky from a junkyard for as little as $25 a piece.

do what you want.. not what other people want you to do. if you follow, you will never be in front.!
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Old 11-11-2001, 07:01 PM
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Both have their atributes and drawbacks.

Everything else being equil, I'd go with the supercharger, a Roots type supercharger. The give you all the power you can ever use, they're easy to install, and they LOOK ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS!!!!

I've had Turbo charged cars and Supercharged cars, I enjoyed the Supercharged cars so much more. The Turbo made for great sleepers because you can't see them, and at idle you can't hear them either, and they were F A S T !
But the supercharger you could see 100 feet away, you could hear it at idle, and it made boost at idle! and they are F A S T !
Remember, Intimidation IS a form of comunication!

I choose superchargers because of the "LOOK AT ME" value. I figure we build these cars for many reasons, one of those reasons is ATTRACTING ATTENTION TO YOURSELF. No other street legal piece of equipment does that better than a supercharger, unless it's sitting on top of a HEMI.

Dewme5 put it in the nutshell: either one can produce more boost than your engine can handle.



HAVE FUN!!!!!!
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  #7  
Old 11-12-2001, 01:23 AM
chrisj0123 chrisj0123 is offline
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Cool

I think I am going to try the turbo setup... I am going to try and do the fab thing.... I don't know how I'm going to pull it off.. but it should be fun. I am going to the junkyard to find turbo chargers. do any of you fine folks know what type of turbo's I would need to get... I am thinking of a dualstage system... and I also have no idea how to install one... any ideas on where to find some instructions. is there any possibility of connecting a turbo and supercharger.... okok prob a stupid Idea ... just want to know what you think!
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Old 11-12-2001, 11:42 AM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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alright. you aren't going to need a dual stage system. they are complicated, difficult, un-needed, ineffective, and just about anything other word you want to use. I can understand the excitment and all, but start off simple. Take a look at my website, and there are pictures of one of the best stock turbos that you can use. it's the Garrett T-03 with .63 A/R on the exhuast side. you can see the .63 cast right on the exhaust housing. the intake side is going to be a .60, and that is stamped on the inside of the output neck. They came in mid 80's 5-speed ford turbocoupes, or mercury XR-7's. But, if the turbo was ever replaced in a number of cars, they are possibilities. including the automatic versions of the same cars, Xr4ti (or what ever that name is.) There is the same turbo with a .48A/R on the exhaust. I would stay away from that because it will choke your exhaust to much.

You can also use dodge 2.2L turbos, but I have heard mixed results using them. Such as they don't support as much horsepower.

when you get the turbo.. get all the accessories that you can. take the exhaust manifold (so you don't have to make a mounting flange, definatley take the elbow on the turbo.. other wise your waste gate wont work. take just about anythign that is going to attach to it. Better to have to many parts, then not enough, and most junk yards aren't going to charge you for the little stuff like that.

also.. before you even go to the yard. Find a can of " PB Blaster" should be able to get it at auto zone or advanced. it's sort of like wd-40, only way superior in the rust/penetration department. when you are trying to pull off those exhaust bolts, you will thank me..

also.. did you get those 2 books.? You really should.. before you even go to the junk yard looking.
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2001, 01:52 PM
Duner Duner is offline
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Cool I love the Turbo!

I lucked out on my turbo system fab/install. I didn't get the book "Maximum Boost" until after I was already driving the thing. Some parts of the book made me feel good about the advice I received from my friends. Other parts made me wish I would have changed a few things.... I still might. The only real concern I have is the production of so much heat in the engine compartment.... but I'm dealing with it. This is the first performance vehicle I have ever driven with a turbo, so I didn't exactly know what to expect. I am totally impressed with everything about how the turbo works and drives. I'm mostly impressed by the amount of sheer torque it produces. Good luck and post pics when you're done!

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'00 CC Dakota 4.7 Turbo 5-speed
12.76 @ 107.77 mph
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2001, 03:17 PM
chrisj0123 chrisj0123 is offline
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Angry

Dewme... what are the TWO books you are talking about. Maximum boost
and what is the other one?
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2001, 06:36 PM
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could i adapt my stock air cleaner to a "turbo hat"? it is off a 1986 ram and has provisions for one larger tube. would the air cleaner need to be welded shut to seal it better or would the stock gasket suffice? any one know of another cheap alternative other than stealing feets k&n hat?
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Old 11-12-2001, 10:22 PM
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The heat from the turbo's can be addressed by coating the exhaust housings with HPC or Jet-Hot coatings. This is done quite often here in OZ.

My 6/71, 360 Small block is nearly finished and I'll post some pic's when it is. However the next project will be a twin turbo V8. It will depend on which body style I buy to which motor I build, either small block or big block. I think 500+hp out of a small block or 750+HP out of a big block would be a reasonable figure to work with.
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Old 11-12-2001, 11:10 PM
dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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the two books are 'maximum boost' by corky bell, and 'Turbochargers' by Hugh macinnes.

Both are going to give you a really good understanding of how to choose the parts that are going to work for you. Instead of taking someone elses advise, they show you how to read compressor maps, compute all of your system requirements. stuff like that.
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2001, 11:32 PM
BILL THOMPSON BILL THOMPSON is offline
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I run a supercharged 383 dodge in a 1939 dodge coupe.as for price expect to spend around 15000 dollars minimum for a proper blower or turbo motor as for reliability if you keep either down below 10 pounds boost then your head gasket will be O.K + you won't have to O-ring the block.If you start pounding it above 10 pounds then get out your check book + add about 5000 dollars to that figure if not more.I prefer the supercharger for heat control but either requires an exceptional heating system,+ exhaust system.blowers are all about temperature but once set up they work awesome.I've got 45000 miles or more on my car + it produces around 600 horse at the rear wheels.turbos are nice but I think they would be a pain.
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