Kieth Black small block

[cutting torch]

Is there a chance that anyone here knows anything about an LA block that was made by Kieth Black in the 80's? It has 4 bolt mains, no motor mount lugs, and a 4.180 bore. I talked to Ken Black, Kieth's son, but he either didn't know or didn't care. I want to know if this might be a good piece, or just a doorstop. Any help is appreciated.

torch

[dwc43]

Sounds like one fo there old circle track race blocks. Sanborn would have some info on this for sure.

[cutting torch]

That's what I was thinking, since it has no mount lugs. This seemed to be the best place to ask.

torch

[RyanJ]

It's an "indy" block. Cast by KB for use in the INDY 500, I believe in 1973 without looking through my notes. It was a one year deal. Not many were cast as you can imagine, around 17-20 total if I remember right. There is one here locally in a '69 Barracuda Bracket car, with W2's.

[cutting torch]

Thanks for the info, Ryan!!! Any idea what the max bore was intended to be? Any more info that anyone can provide will be greatly appreciated. I will try to post some pics as soon as I figure out how. I will have to pick the old ladies brain to do it!!!

torch

[MoparMarcIdaho]

Yea get some pics on man-we wanna see this.

[cutting torch]

Casting # is 3614530, and block is painted with yellow on all as-cast surfaces.

Can't seem to post photos.

[RyanJ]

4.180" is REALLY pushing it, unless it is Siamese bore. Pop a freeze plug out and see if it is Siamese or not.

[cutting torch]

Once I get to lay my hands on it I will check. I figured it might be ok at that bore if it is siamesed. If it isn't, it's only good for a conversation piece or a doorstop. The casting # is 3614530.

torch

[RyanJ]

Originally Posted by cutting torch

Once I get to lay my hands on it I will check. I figured it might be ok at that bore if it is siamesed. If it isn't, it's only good for a conversation piece or a doorstop. The casting # is 3614530.

torch

You can send that "doorstop" to me.... I'd sonic and sleeve.

[cutting torch]

This block isn't mine, I'm thinking of buying it. Before I buy it, it will have to pass muster with a sonic check. Sleeving is only an option if I can buy it at a doorstop price, otherwise a different block might be more reasonable. I want to know if it can be bored once more (safely). I don't want to invest a ton of money into a block that starts out on it's last bore. Also, I will have the trouble of mounting it, since it has no lugs. The extra effort is no big deal, as long as it doesn't end up costing me more than just buying a different block.

torch

[cutting torch]

I have pictures that were e-mailed to me, but I can't seem to convert them to a format that I can post. Once I can get some pictures of it myself, I will try again.

torch

[cutting torch]

Anyone? Anyone? Sanborn maybe?

torch

[sanborn]

I can't be of much help on this one; but, if I had one in front of me I would look at the following:

1. 4.180" is a lot of bore. But the Mopar block is long enough to take that kind of bore. Remember, the bore centerline on a Mopar is 4.460". The block may be siamese but I would doubt it if it was an early Indy race block. I would think the original design(back in 1973) would have been to have water flow around the total cylinder walls. Sonic testing the cylinder walls would be the final answer. I would want a minimum of .200" for serious race applications.
2. Does the block have 59 degree lifter bore angles? Those lifter bore angles are a disadvantage for high RPM valve train stability.
3. Does the block have provision for front/rear oiling? I would think a Indy race block would have that provision.
4. If the block was used as part of an Indy engine, the entire block would be polished(inside and out), all casting slag removed, water pasages bored- not rough cast, etc.
In short, the block would be a "work of art". If the block does not pass the "work of art" test, I would think it's bogus.

Somewhere, back in my feeble mind, I remembering seeing an article on those Westlake Indy engines. Now, if I can just remember where that magazine might be-----------

Come to think of it-----I know a fellow who has a couple of pairs of the Westlake heads with the slide valve injectors. He might know something about the blocks that went with them. If you are an Indy history buff, his 3000 square foot basement would be a treat. It's filled with restored Indy Roadsters, Offy engines everywhere, 3 or 4 Foyt Ford engines and a Novi.

[cutting torch]

I managed to get a hold of Dick Landy (himself!) and he seemed to think the block was an early 80's piece that was made for the Trans Am series. It's too bad that Ken Black isn't too interested in helping. Rpm would not be a big concern, since I would stroke it and use it for street/strip. Thanks for the advice!

torch